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A question about access land

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 Manboob 29 Mar 2020

I imagine the collective wisdom on here will be able to answer this...

If an area is designated access land on the OS map but sits entirely within private land with no right of way to actually get to it, what is the situation about accessing it?

And also, how do climbing permissions work for rocks/quarries within access land? Does it still depend on permission from the land owner? 

I am sure it is possible to Google the above, bit thought I would ask anyway.

(Ps it is just out of curiosity that I ask, I am observing lockdown measures and not going exploring blah)

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 Tom V 29 Mar 2020
In reply to Manboob:

I'm intrigued by your landlocked example. Care to expand?

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 marsbar 29 Mar 2020
In reply to Manboob:

I have a vague idea that access land on maps sometimes has a triangular mark showing where you access the land.

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 Manboob 29 Mar 2020
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 gezebo 29 Mar 2020
In reply to Manboob:

When CRoW/ Access land came into force around 2000 I recall it was defined from the land use/type. I think there are a few instances as you describe mainly resulting from farm land surrounding the peaks of small hills which would have never been cultivated and as such would not have formal rights of way to get to them. I think popular areas have permitted footpaths, I’m thinking of Arrans near Bala as a prime example although these areas were always popular before cRoW came into force. In other areas I think a blind eye is just turned for the convenience of everyone as it’s often only locals that go there. 

Post edited at 20:23
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 Tom V 29 Mar 2020
In reply to Manboob:

I see what you mean. Very odd!

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 Lankyman 29 Mar 2020
In reply to Tom V:

> I'm intrigued by your landlocked example. Care to expand?


There are plenty of them about. I've come across quite a few in the Lakes and have trespassed to get into them. Back when they were created I was told by the park authority that landowners would be required to create access routes into them. This of course turned out to be not the case.

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 Sam Beaton 30 Mar 2020
In reply to Manboob and Lankyman:

Local authorities have the powers to create paths to access land that are landlocked, against the landowners wishes if necessary. This was done in quite a few places when the CROW Act was big news but not everywhere. If it hasn't been done by now it will probably never happen. The difficulty was in communicating to the public where these new extra paths were and they still don't appear on OS maps.

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 Sam Beaton 30 Mar 2020
In reply to marsbar:

Access land existed prior to the CROW Act, Burbage Valley being one example. Pre CROW Act OS maps show this with a purple boundary with purple arrows to show access points. Unfortunately, the OS never worked out a way of showing access points to CROW Access land and you have to rely on local knowledge to know where these are

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 John Gresty 30 Mar 2020
In reply to Manboob:

I believe that Harvey's maps show access points. I have made an effort to visit local areas that are now defined as open access, enter via a known access point but then the  problem often was, using OS maps, of finding a way out, other than the one we had used to get in. We fought hard to get this amount of access, we need to use it.

John

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In reply to Manboob:

Climbing is a permitted activity within CROW rights but probably best to get landowners consent too

There is an overdue decadal review of CROW land in the pipeline so worth reminding your local access authority and/or the Local Access Forum of this case? 

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 marsbar 02 Apr 2020
In reply to Sam Beaton:

Thanks. I knew I remembered something but I didnt realise it was pre CROW. Presumably in some cases this would make the old maps more useful.  

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 Sam Beaton 04 Apr 2020
In reply to Bulls Crack:

> There is an overdue decadal review of CROW land in the pipeline so worth reminding your local access authority and/or the Local Access Forum of this case? 

Do you think this will happen any time soon? Hasn't it been officially pushed back more than once by DEFRA?

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 mrphilipoldham 04 Apr 2020
In reply to Sam Beaton:

I was under the impression that there are no dedicated access points for CRoW land as such and that you could enter it from anywhere, so over fences or locked gates if needs be - with the proviso that you weren’t excluded from criminal damage laws. I could well be wrong here and would like to hear if I am, it might keep me out of trouble one day!

Edit - Yes the Ramblers seem to think this way too.. page 3!

https://www.ramblers.org.uk/-/media/Files/Advice/Ramblers%20Walking%20Access%20Rights%20Guide_FINAL.ashx

Post edited at 09:59
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 Mike Peacock 04 Apr 2020
In reply to Manboob:

Some access land has perissive paths to reach it. County Councils sometimes have the relevant info, e.g. here's Oxfordshire County Council with maps showing access points and permissive papths:

https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/residents/environment-and-planning/countryside/countryside-access/open-access-land

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 Sam Beaton 04 Apr 2020
In reply to John Gresty:

> I believe that Harvey's maps show access points.

I didn't know that as I don't have any Harvey's maps, thanks. Do they show every access point on small patches of urban fringe access land, or just the major ones?

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 Sam Beaton 04 Apr 2020
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

You're absolutely right, but it makes sense to use gates and stiles if they are there. Many land owners and access authorities have put them in in sensible strategic places, e.g. at the back of laybys, opposite PROWs on the other side of the road, and in places where people were breaking down fences and walls pre-CROW anyway

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 mrphilipoldham 04 Apr 2020
In reply to Sam Beaton:

Yes, of course  

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 Dan Arkle 04 Apr 2020
In reply to Manboob:

I tend to just get to landlocked access land in my helicopter. Its great for getting a bit of peace and quiet by myself.

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In reply to Sam Beaton:

It was going to happen in the not too distant future but obviously this will need to be reassessed 

However, a review of all our access resources would be a useful thing to do given their sudden prominence and importance. The distribution of access resources in relation to population has become front page news.

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