which double ropes

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 David Coley 16 Jun 2020

My current ones are >20 years old and fluffing up nicely. What should I replace them with, please? After any useful information. 

I see Beal do a Unicore version Cobra (48g/m 8.6mm), which I might have gone for in a big wall single rope, but is Unicore much use in half ropes? Most of their use will be UK trad. And they do a triple rated 8.5mm Unicore - the Opera, also 48g/m. Anyone got any thoughts of the handling of one vs the other?

For some reason, ropes thinner than 8.5mm just seem too thin for normal day-to-day ropes, rather than for use in the alps, but am I just being rather old-school? Is light right? I mainly climb HVS-E2, but don't weigh much so I do seem to get on better with less weight on me.

Finally, if there is a rope you like or is hard wearing, please let me know.

Birthday present, so cost not main issue.

Thanks and all the best.

Post edited at 14:45
In reply to David Coley:

It's  a shame Mammut no longer do the genesis as that was a superb rope. great blend of durability and performance!

Beal unicore is really good, I've got a 10mm unicore single that I use as a workhouse rope, really nice.

If you want top quality Sterling Duetto are superb. 8.4 mm.

I can see that Outside are still stocking the Genesis though so I'd definitely give them a whirl! 

It's hard because nobody makes bad ropes so so many to choose from but if you a day to day set for everything Genesis or Duettos!

Bit rambling but I hope that helps! 

1
 John Kelly 16 Jun 2020
In reply to David Coley:

8mms works really well, 500 routes per pair (not 20 years mind), light when your climbing long pitches, sterling or mammut are great.

Considered 7.5 but bottled it.

OP David Coley 16 Jun 2020
In reply to John Kelly:

John, when you say 500 routes. Do you mean 500 pitches / UK routes, or 500 big things like Yosemite and the Alps.

I would guess I do >500 pitches a year.

Thanks

1
 SiobhanStraver 16 Jun 2020
In reply to David Coley:

Can't weigh in on comparison with other ropes but just a heads up- If you are going to try the genesis I'm not sure you can find the yellow half in more than 50m anywhere, I spent a long time looking recently when enquiring about a 60m. Of course if you're looking at getting a 50 then no problems, they're still about online

 mbh 16 Jun 2020
In reply to David Coley:

Good to know someone else has a pair of double ropes even older than mine were, at 20 years, when I replaced them a few months ago. 

I went old school and bought the same Beal Verdons again, probably exclusively for use on UK trad. 

 brianjcooper 16 Jun 2020
In reply to David Coley:

> but is Unicore much use in half ropes? 

I've got two Beal Cobra II 8.6mm half ropes that I use for Trad climbing. Both Unicore.

After watching a video showing both Unicore and standard kernmantel ropes being tested after a halfway cut, my mind was made up. I think most manufacturers do Unicore now.

Not always necessary, but mine have Golden Dry treatment too. Wet ropes can be slightly weaker and much heavier.

Hope this helps.

   

Post edited at 15:52
1
 Mark Haward 16 Jun 2020
In reply to David Coley:

Hi Dave,

I've used several ropes but always seem to come back to Mammut Genesis ( dry treated ) 8.5 as my day to day ropes. 50 metre ropes for UK Trad S - E1 and some alpine routes ( tend to go to 60m for more technical UK winter or alpine mixed routes AD plus and beyond such as Ice Line and Joker ). I have always found the Genesis to handle well, take reasonable abuse, reassuring thickness for good rope control. 

   Enjoy the pressie!

Mark

 Steve Woollard 16 Jun 2020
In reply to David Coley:

Hi David, I bought a pair of Opera's for this season rather than Cobra's because being able to use them singly is useful for me when doing things like Tower Ridge, Cuillin Ridge etc. The only downside is they are quite stiff, but hopefully this will ease with more use.

The other option is the Mammut Serenity which at 8.7mm and 51g/m also makes a good multi-purpose rope.

 henwardian 16 Jun 2020
In reply to David Coley:

From what you have said in your OP:

1) If you plan to keep the next set of halfs for 20 years, I recommend you prioritise resilience over all else because in my book that's a terrifying length of time to still be using the same half-ropes for (although I am kind of impressed that their sheaths didn't give up the ghost years ago).

2) I am very much in the same boat as yourself on thicknesses - for me anything below about 8.5mm is just worrying to climb on (I think the thinnest my partners have broken out up to now was like 7.5mm maybe, they were not to my liking!) and my experience of owning 8mm halfs was that they wore out a lot more quickly than the 8.5s I've used before and since.

3) I don't think the weight difference between 8.5mm and 8mm, or even 7.5mm will make much difference on a route because the difference near the start of the pitch will be incredibly small and by the time you are 20 or 30m up, the downward force of the rope drag is almost certainly going to have a much bigger impact than the mass of the rope itself. If you want to save weight, I would suggest buying lightweight gear like crabs, cams, nuts etc. which all come in light-weight versions. Or just thinning out your rack a little bit if you habitually carry pieces you never use.

I don't even remember the name of my current halfs though, so I will shy away from recommending a specific rope by name on this one.

 jezb1 16 Jun 2020
In reply to David Coley:

20 years?! STB.

I've never had a rope come close to that and I treat my kit well.

 John Kelly 16 Jun 2020
In reply to David Coley:

Good point, 600 pitches in lakes, so a fairly benign it terms of wear

 Mark Stevenson 17 Jun 2020
In reply to David Coley:

I had to make a similar decision two years ago and went for 50metre Beal Cobras for UK trad.

I definitely agree that c.8.5mm seems about right for general use. That means that the prime options include Cobras or Genesis for half ropes and potentially Opera or Serenity for triples.

The Cobras just handle far, far better than the Genesis. My current pair have also, so far, worn well. Personally I was not willing to trade-off clearly poorer handling for the promised of potentially better durability several years down the line. Others on this thread obviously disagree but I'm not surprised - I have always thought that by dint of their popularity over the years, Mammut Genesis have had a slightly better reputation than they really deserve. 

I haven't used Operas but Serenity are amazing ropes. However the handling still comes up short compared with the Cobras and I'd be very surprised if the same wasn't true of the Opera. So, I suppose it comes down to whether or not you regularly climb as a three as opposed to just as a pair. 

Anyway, I'm firmly of the opinion that the Cobras are still pretty unbeatable in terms of great handling ropes for general trad. 

1
In reply to David Coley:

When did Beal start using Unicore technology for the Cobras? I think mine are pre Unicore, but I don’t know. 

 brianjcooper 17 Jun 2020
In reply to Stefan Jacobsen:

> When did Beal start using Unicore technology for the Cobras? I think mine are pre Unicore, but I don’t know. 

My Cobra II halves are dated as being made in 2014 and 2015. 

In reply to brianjcooper:

My Cobras are from 2007 or earlier. No dates visible, but I had them on an old photo...
(don't tell me they are too old, they are fine!)

 brianjcooper 18 Jun 2020
In reply to Stefan Jacobsen:

> My Cobras are from 2007 or earlier. No dates visible, but I had them on an old photo...

> (don't tell me they are too old, they are fine!)

Wouldn't dream of it.   I think their documentation says they can be 10 year old, plus 5 in storage and be OK depending on usage.

The Beal-Planet website used to have an option for rope identification. Even which loom it had been made on. Not much help if the tag on the ropes are not visible anymore. Last two digits are the year of manufacture. (You probably know that bit).

In reply to brianjcooper:

I just got an answer from Beal: Their Cobra ropes have been produced with Unicore technology since 2013.

 brianjcooper 18 Jun 2020
In reply to Stefan Jacobsen:

> I just got an answer from Beal: Their Cobra ropes have been produced with Unicore technology since 2013.

Cheers. Worth knowing. Not sure where I saw it, but as I mentioned in an earlier post do have a look at the video to see the difference in Unicore construction.

Plenty of life left in your current ones too. 

In reply to brianjcooper:

Yes, I saw the video previously. It was convincing. Too bad I have no (other) excuses for buying new. 


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