Via Ferrata Lanyard Recommendations?

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 mattck 19 Oct 2020

Completely new to the sport, though not to climbing, I'm going to be heading around Europe for the winter so figured it would be a cool thing to do when passing by.

There are so many variations of lanyard though, I haven't really a clue as to which to go for. I assume I'll be wanting a palm operated lock rather than a twist lock, and don't want to spend more than I need - maybe £60 or so?

Appreciate any advice or recommendations.

 tjin 19 Oct 2020
In reply to mattck:

There are no twist locks. 

You either have a sliding collar or one of those connectors with a lock at the back.

Any new ones made to the current standard uses a stitched absorber with a range of 40-120kg. So the only variables in features are:

- Type of carabiner

- Elastic or non-elastic lanyards (elastic keep the ends closer, which is handier)

- A third attachment for a resting carabiner (very common)

Optional things:

- Spinner, so the arms don't get twisted. (barely noticeable/worth it)

- Some specific models have fancy stuff, like cable grab thing. (Skylotec RIDER 3.0-R) Different opinions on these. I never tried it. 

OP mattck 19 Oct 2020
In reply to tjin:

Thanks for that. Interesting about the spinner - I was swaying towards one as I thought it'd be useful.

Yes the Skylotec Rider looks great. Saw it a few years back and wanted it, but it's not available right now (and a lot of money!)

 Neil Williams 19 Oct 2020
In reply to tjin:

> - Spinner, so the arms don't get twisted. (barely noticeable/worth it)

I find they get twisted a lot and so that that is useful.  It must depend which way you naturally clip.

 spenser 19 Oct 2020
In reply to tjin:

My experience using the resting carabiner clip point is that it feels very difficult to unclip when on a stemple ladder or some such (I opted to take a breather halfway up some steep thing in Austria, no parties behind me so I didn't cause anyone any bother).

 LastBoyScout 19 Oct 2020
In reply to mattck:

I've got one of the older Petzl ones with the friction plate and that's been fine.

Problem with the rip ones is that once used, they need to be replaced.

OP mattck 19 Oct 2020
In reply to mattck:

Three three seem to have everything (£60, £75 and £90 respectively). Just a matter of small differences and whether they're worth paying for.

https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/rock-empire-dynatwist-via-ferrata-set

https://www.climbingtechnology.com/en/outdoor-en/via-ferrata2/sets2/top-she...

https://m.petzl.com/INT/en/Sport/Lanyards/SCORPIO-EASHOOK

 Jenny C 19 Oct 2020
In reply to mattck:

The big thing is getting a krab that feels comfy to operate for you, some of the more expensive swanky ones really don't work with my small hands.

Most systems have a resting point, but just a normal climbing sling with a wide opening gate is fine as it will only be used for a static load and always backed up by the lanyards.

I do find the trails get twisted so would look for a system with a swivel, but from what others have said they aren't perfect.

 beardy mike 19 Oct 2020
In reply to mattck:

Still for sale and recently updated with a swanky high wear biner which has been designed for small and large hands...


https://www.skylotec.com/eu_en/sport/products/via-ferrata-sets/rider-3-0-r-...

There is also a version with just the swanky biners. They boast dual redundancy on the lanyard which means you can fall on it with one arm clipped to your harness and it will deploy without ripping your harness apart. Not sure any others do that. But it's also the reason there's no swivel as to integrate a swivel you'd have to get around Mammuts patent for the position in which it would need to be located...

Post edited at 13:01
 ewanjp 19 Oct 2020
In reply to mattck:

The decathlon ones are excellent for the price. I can never bring myself to upgrade them for very minor improvements. They do a good set of fingerless gloves as well.

 tjin 19 Oct 2020
In reply to Neil Williams:

I have used two sets without a swivel, before getting one with. (happens to be cheaper, got a good deal). Maybe I'm just used to just keep an eye on the arms and just not twist them or untwist them at the moment when I clip the next part. I don't feel a difference between having a swivel or not. YMMV.

 Neil Williams 19 Oct 2020
In reply to tjin:

> I have used two sets without a swivel, before getting one with. (happens to be cheaper, got a good deal). Maybe I'm just used to just keep an eye on the arms and just not twist them or untwist them at the moment when I clip the next part. I don't feel a difference between having a swivel or not. YMMV.

It may be that you're more comfortable on VF than me.  If I'm scared, I'll bang them on any old how because I want them on past the bolt.

This is probably very much influenced by me being overweight for the old 100kg spec (and thus a fall of a full "bolt length" would be very, very bad) and only just within weight for the new 120kg spec (possibly over a bit once you add the kit on).

Post edited at 14:04
 Frank R. 19 Oct 2020
In reply to Neil Williams:

I have one with a swivel, but they still get twisted time to time. Might be just me though

Post edited at 14:47
 apwebber 19 Oct 2020
In reply to mattck:

For my two cents I find the palm operated carabiners to be excellent and so much more ergonomic than the standard ones. It's a very fluid action to squeeze, move the krab and unsqueeze.

Although, just had a look and it seems this type is much more common than when I bought mine. Maybe they have become the standard, which is good.

Post edited at 23:05
 beardy mike 20 Oct 2020
In reply to apwebber:

Yeah - everybody jumped on the bandwagon... luckily companies are also going away from the oldschool version of these aswell as they are awful. The larger the biner (lengthways) the better it is in terms of gate open size which is really really useful for Via Ferrata to go around rungs and stakes. Also it allows you to make the bottom end of the biner smaller so better ergonomics for smaller hands...

 beardy mike 20 Oct 2020
In reply to mattck:

The first two of those ones you posted have exactly the wanky carabiners I was just talking about. Don't get them. Those biners are frigging awful. The Petzl ones are nice to handle for sure. I'm biased towards Skylotec, and think they're the best handling biner out there but then they don't have the swivel. I think the main thing with getting in a twist is to just always clip them without twisting them in the first place. I seem to manage it the vast majority of the time meaning you don't have to worry about the swivel... it's a bit like back clipping - just learn to just do it correctly every time....

Post edited at 08:55
OP mattck 20 Oct 2020
In reply to beardy mike:

> The first two of those ones you posted have exactly the wanky carabiners I was just talking about. Don't get them. Those biners are frigging awful.

I'm confused what you mean by that, all of those seem to operate similarly to me? Are we talking the fact the mechanism is positioned slightly lower and is more ergonomic?

Really appreciate the posts so far - does anyone know if carabiner wear is a big issue with aluminium? Wondering if I should opt for a set with steel wear inserts or if it's not a major issue?

Post edited at 09:45
 Webster 20 Oct 2020
In reply to mattck:

i made my own out of old rope. sure if i fell it would be a huge fall factor, but as a climber, im not going to fall climbing up or down a ladder, no matter how long and steep! if im getting pumped i can just rest directly on the lanyard without needing to worry about an unwanted deployment!

11
 beardy mike 20 Oct 2020
In reply to mattck:

Yeah - they have a very short gate opening, they are spectacularly unergonomic and the heaviest on the market to boot. I know that last one doesn't make so much difference in this scenario but still. 

As for steel inserts, in terms of pure functionality, the inserts don't add anything, but it will make the carabiners last better and avoids creating burrs which can catch on your set whilst stuffed in a rucksack. I mean aluminium on steel cables? If you're going to do lots of it its a consideration.

OP mattck 20 Oct 2020
In reply to beardy mike:

Cool, appreciate all the input. I'm still thoroughly torn on which to go for! I've a couple of weeks left to decide so I'll keep on thinking now I have some good points to consider. Thanks.

Post edited at 12:46
 Darron 20 Oct 2020
In reply to mattck:

Just to make you aware.

A few years ago there was a VF fatality in the Alps. As far as I recall this was eventually put down to grit causing wear and eventual failure. The VF Set was one with elasticated lanyards and this is where grit was found. The set was a hire set so, obviously, subject to far greater use than with an individual.

However, You may want to check elasticated lanyards periodically. Have fun.

 Frank R. 20 Oct 2020
In reply to Darron:

Wasn't that addressed back in 2012 by mass recalls and later in the EN 958:2017 revision by stipulating cyclic testing for exactly that reason?

Not that you shouldn't inspect your gear, of course!

edit: Yes, 2012, here's the DAV statement from back then:

https://eu.blackdiamondequipment.com/on/demandware.static/-/Library-Sites-S...

Post edited at 13:56
 beardy mike 20 Oct 2020
In reply to Darron:

I seem to remember there were two seperate issues discovered.

1) Elasticated lanyards wearing through due to the increased wear at the points at which the tubular webbing was kinked when retracted (i.e. nearly always) and certain manufacturers using much lighter materials than others but not predicting the wear and shops not inspecting their gear properly. The remedial measures generally taken were to increase the sling thickness and thread count.

2) frictional devices which rather than using tear stitching use a friction device and a rope running through the device were found to become ineffective due to the rope becoming worn, resulting in either it not deploying properly or at all. Most of this style device were withdrawn from sale, apart from Kong who still supply them but with the rope sewn into a protective pouch.

 apwebber 20 Oct 2020
In reply to Webster:

I always have a sling and locking carabiner on my harness for resting, taking photos etc.

1
 Frank R. 20 Oct 2020
In reply to beardy mike:

I think all of the friction rope brakes were discontinued as VF sets, even the Kong VF lanyard looks to be the now normal type (stitched). They do still sell the Kisa, which looks like the old-style friction brake, but only the metal device and not as a full VF-certified lanyard set, possibly as a DIY impact shock absorber for critical placements on ice (although I'd probably prefer a stitched type one there as well)?

 Frank R. 20 Oct 2020
In reply to beardy mike:

> Yeah - they have a very short gate opening, they are spectacularly unergonomic and the heaviest on the market to boot. I know that last one doesn't make so much difference in this scenario but still. 

Funny, I have the "wanky" ones you mention in my VF set and while the shorter opening and weight is somewhat irritating, I don't find them that bad! Got it after my previous VF lanyard (Horai) palm-lock biner failed to lock several times on one well iced up route in the Alps early summer (might have been too tight tolerances and icing and grit inside, or just bad luck, obviously with sample size of one it's impossible to draw any conclusions). The "wanky" ones' mechanism just seemed to me to be slightly more resistant to that (bigger openings everywhere). Of course, that's just my uninformed assumption

 beardy mike 20 Oct 2020
In reply to Frank R.:

You're right - I'm out of date, but they were sold until very recently for sure as I saw them at ISPO 2 Febs ago.

 beardy mike 20 Oct 2020
In reply to Frank R.:

Well I've not used a Horai before so can't pass judgement. But from an ergonomics perspective the old style are not user friendly for small hands at all. And at the opposite end of the scale they are not so easy to get onto rungs. My derogatory term was slightly in jest, but I just prefer larger gates on VF biners. 

 Frank R. 20 Oct 2020
In reply to beardy mike:

No surprise! Kong have always had some weird and esoteric things still in production. Which is good at times, I really want to try their Slyder plate for a DIY adjustable lanyard for positioning for photography, but I can sure believe they might have had an old style VF lanyard until lately...

 Frank R. 20 Oct 2020
In reply to beardy mike:

For sure! Many older VF ladders are pretty old and with very thick rungs (to the OP, if you get a separate biner for resting, get the biggest opening HMS you can!) and I believe that "wanky" style biner was adapted from an industrial biner meant for thinner cables. Seems even Skylotec still uses that style in some sets, but their newer ones are different. Even the smaller manufacturers like Singing Rock are moving away from it now it seems. I just liked that it seemed pretty "rugged" to conditions like grit inside the mechanism and such compared to my previous one, while still being in the same price range, unlike some others.

 beardy mike 20 Oct 2020
In reply to Frank R.:

I think the main driver for that style being still in use is because they are cheap as chips because they are all basically the same unit so churned out in large quantities, whereas the new ones have to have tooling made, ce testing, development costs etc... VF is the largest and most rapidly expanding sector in tech hardware at the moment so it's no surprise that companies are looking to cash in.

 underitall 20 Oct 2020

I have a PETZL Scorpio Vertigo that I bought last year for my first try at VFing in Spain. Loved it!
With practice, you can practically run up some of the easier routes the lanyard set is that easy to use.
But of course because it doesn't have a spinner, it is easy to get the lanyards twisted, you just need to learn to alternate which way you clip.

Have fun with VF,
Tom.

OP mattck 21 Oct 2020
In reply to underitall:

Can I ask if you have any wear on the carabiners? I'm swaying towards a Petzl Scorpio Eashook, but not sure if I should be going for a different one with a steel insert. Though obviously aluminium will eventually wear on steel cables, I've never tried it, so not sure on timeframe/severity of it.

 Dave Cundy 21 Oct 2020
In reply to LastBoyScout:

Personally, i wouldn't worry about having trashed my VF kit by falling and ripped the stitching.  If you've done that that in a fall, I suspect you'll hurt enough that you'll not be wanting to do another VF for a few days. Thus giving you time to go and buy another set.

I have one of the old kong plated with six holes in.  It took a few small jumps on it to realise i needed my 9mm rope to go through 5 holes to avoid bottoming out.  And the forces were getting 'uncomfortable'.

Lesson learned. Take care and DON'T fall off. Ever. Then, it doesn't matter what you kit is.

Edit:  same lesson applies to caving.  I went on a rescue practice and saw what a pain a stretcher carry can be.  Goes through my head every time i'm deep in a cave.

Post edited at 10:11
 LastBoyScout 21 Oct 2020
In reply to Dave Cundy:

> Personally, i wouldn't worry about having trashed my VF kit by falling and ripped the stitching.  If you've done that in a fall, I suspect you'll hurt enough that you'll not be wanting to do another VF for a few days. Thus giving you time to go and buy another set.

Absolutely. But you still have to escape/retreat/finish the one you're on and can't afford another fall.

 Neil Williams 21 Oct 2020
In reply to LastBoyScout:

> Absolutely. But you still have to escape/retreat/finish the one you're on and can't afford another fall.

If you've fallen enough to rip any significant amount of stitching, the helicopter is taking you down.  A VF set is the difference between being in a heap of bones and blood at the bottom and being able to be helicoptered off for several weeks in hospital while the arms and legs you broke bouncing off ladder rungs etc recover.  Falling any distance is still very much to be avoided and you really need to pitch it with a rope if you think there is considerable chance that you will.

VF really needs to be treated with the same level of respect as unprotected scrambling of similar difficulty.

If you've only ripped a bit, you will still get protection unless you're maxed out on the weight rating.

Post edited at 10:39
 Baz P 06 Nov 2020
In reply to mattck:

Just to add to the above, the most useful piece of equipment I now use on ferrata is a Petzl connect. You can clip to rest on any rung within reach and pull to tighten. Great for taking photos, setting up zip wire pulleys or just resting.


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