Using Nomics with the size S configuration for the grip-rest?

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With this configuration, I find that I can't actually use the axes in cane-mode because the bottom spike is in an ineffective orientation relative to the surface and the "primary axis of the axe". Instead of biting into the snow/ice surface, it just skates around and is basically useless.

The cane-mode is of course not the primary function of these tools, but it is damn convenient when approaching a route, or on the occasional mid-route scrambling section. However, I do feel that my grip is significantly better with size S, so I'd really rather not give that up.

Petzl acknowledges that the cane-mode works better when the grip-rest is set to size M-L, and has suggested two solutions:

  1. Just change the size, it's easy.
  2. Just bring a third ice axe and use that when cane-mode is needed.

I'm not exactly a fan of either... And I don't know of other technical axes that are fitted for smaller hands.

I am just a weekend hero, and not a great climber. But stuff like this really bothers me. Also for the reason that there is an obvious overlap between female climbers and climbers with smaller hands...

Anywho, if you experience a similar gear-deficiency, please share. And maybe drop Petzl and/or others a note to let them know that smaller-handed climbers are climbers too. Maybe it will make a difference.

Yeah, I'm probably overreacting, and should just go climbing instead of this. Cheers!

Post edited at 19:43
 JMAB 21 Mar 2023
In reply to TheWintherAlpinist:

I use M and find cane mode sucks a bit. I usually use it upside down, holding the handle, unless I want it for self arrest. Actually works fairly well.

 Gemmazrobo 21 Mar 2023
In reply to TheWintherAlpinist:

You can buy replacement griprests from the 3rd gen model which has an actual spike. I also have this issue and plan to do this soon. I also do often carry them upside down as JMAB describes which does work but isn't my favorite. Certain picks such as kuznia etc often have spikes on the head which helps with this method a lot.

In reply to JMAB:

I don't think that upside down mode works well when the surface is icy though. Or, as you point out, when you want to be able to self-arrest. With the griprest at size M or L, I would definitely prefer the cane mode.
 

In reply to Gemmazrobo:

The Nomics do come with griprests with actual spikes (the Ergonomics do not). What replacements are you referring to?
 

 finc00 21 Mar 2023
In reply to TheWintherAlpinist:

2nd gen nomics dont have proper spikes on the griprest, 3rd gen do.

 GarethSL 22 Mar 2023
In reply to TheWintherAlpinist:

I totally agree with you that the spike is useless in small, and don't think you're overreacting as this isn't something many consider when buying axes and only find out afterwards.

One solution I found was to flip the way I hold the head of the axe depending on how steep the terrain is, so the spike doesn't slip about and actually contacts the ice/snow. Its still not as effective as if it was in medium or large but can help for low-angle approaches.

I added Nomic grip rests to my Ergos cause I wanted a spike on those too but due to the aggressive curve these have to be in medium for the spike to be of any use at all.

As others have said you can hold the handle and use the head of the axe but this only really works with the Dry* or Pur'dry blades from Petzl or aftermarket picks. The Ice pick has no teeth and those on the Pur'ice are an irrelevant feature.

*If winter mixed is your thing then these picks will probably be the best for you anyway - so you may be able to get away with it!

 TobyA 22 Mar 2023
In reply to TheWintherAlpinist:

How hard are you climbing and where do you climb? I do feel that many people buy offset handle tools because they should - because they are the "best", and they maybe for climbing vertical or steeper ice, and overhung mixed, but they aren't the best for the other 90% of a mountain day. 

I've got DMM Switches and BD Vipers. At the grades I can climb, the Vipers aren't any disadvantage on the cruxes and hardest pitches, but are a quite a lot better walking to the cliff, walking off the cliff, and all the easier bits on the route. 

The Switches are good fun, and fine tools, but for what I climb these days, their disadvantages outweigh their advantages.

In reply to GarethSL:

I think the decision to place the spike on the adjustable griprest rather than leaving it static, is such a shame. I don't see any use in adjusting the orientation of that spike. It seems that it's only causing an unnecessary disadvantage. But I guess the engineers had different priorities.

I see that flipping the axe could provide a little more grip. Thanks for the tip!

In reply to TobyA:

I just got started with the steeper ice this year. But I did feel that moving from Quarks to Nomics made that climbing easier (corresponding to moving from Vipers to Switches I suppose).
 

Anywho, in the mean time I've gotten myself a pair of crutches instead. So now I don't need ice axes at all. Problem solved!

 TobyA 25 Mar 2023
In reply to TheWintherAlpinist:

> I just got started with the steeper ice this year. But I did feel that moving from Quarks to Nomics made that climbing easier

Do they it make feel easier because you now look really cool and dead hard swinging fancy Nomic tools, or do they make it actually easier?

Where I used to live and ice climb it was basically all single pitch lowland ice - no mountaineering skills needed at all. You could walk to the bottom of the icefalls in snowboots or wellies if you really wanted to and put your boots on just before you step off the horizontal onto vertical or relatively steep ice. For that kind of ice climbing offset handle tools are the best. But if you are winter climbing in the UK, where walking around to get to and get down from the route, is a significant part of the day, I reckon a tool with a decent spike on the bottom is important. I kinda wish I never sold on my original BD Reactors - I think they would make a great UK climbing tool now for all but the very hardest routes - offset handle but still a usable spike: http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/7674/266/1600/954568/172_7226.jpg

But some modern designs come with a spike - the new Edelrid Rage for example https://edelrid.com/gb-en/sport/crampons-and-ice-axes-shop/rage I don't know if they would work for smaller hands though if there is no adjustability.

And if you are on crutches because you've broken something - get well soon!


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