twin/double ropes and belay device

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 RR 18 Mar 2020

Staying mandatory at home now one starts to think about new goals. I know some of my ropes are quite dated (at least) and have seen a lot of sunshine at altitude. So a new set of twin/double ropes is a something I am considering. With a new belay device. Search on the internet is not much of help.

Current situation 

The twin (lavender and grey) Edelrid  and double rope (yellow bleu bicolor) Edelrid are now around plus 8 mm. I seldom use the doubles, those are the heavy ones. 

Considerations

The rope?

A set of 50-meter combi twin/double ropes. But what diameter. Thin is lighter. But … I am afraid the thinner you go the more chance they get stuck retrieving after rappelling. Or is it just BS.

The device?

I tried a Mega Jul of Edelrid. Drove me mad all the time hearing: oh just a sec slack is coming. So I changed to the Alpine Up, less problematic but tangles up the rope easy. And as a pro has auto block. So do-able. The normal ATC is okay and the Reverso 4 is best for me now (but that’s may be just me). Haven’t tried the smaller ATC. And the Giga Jul specs are persuasive . Is the Giga the way to go?

Any idea’s or thoughts? if you are bored by staying at home.

Post edited at 10:59
 krikoman 18 Mar 2020
In reply to RR:

ropes AFAIK don't sure from UV degradation, not modern ropesat least.

I'd just use a simple tube, or variation on a tube if I was you, simple and can be used everywhere in most situations.

 Martin Bennett 18 Mar 2020
In reply to RR:

As a habitual user of 8mm half (ok - double, if you like) ropes I'd say whatever you do don't consider a standard BD ATC. Too slick by far. BD ATC XP or ATC Guide are better. I believe using two crabs not just one adds friction but not felt the need myself. Probably would with 7.5mm dia. ropes. Extending abseil device by say a foot from waist tie-in point adds friction in descent along with its other benefits.

 Neil Williams 18 Mar 2020
In reply to RR:

> I tried a Mega Jul of Edelrid. Drove me mad all the time hearing: oh just a sec slack is coming

It's a different action than a tube device, but I have just got one to have a play and I'm not finding that at all.  The main criticism is that like every other brake assist device lowering is cack-handed because you can't have two hands on the dead rope.  Though it's slightly less awkward than a Grigri.

Post edited at 13:25
 misterb 18 Mar 2020
In reply to RR:

I like to go light and techy on many products but rope is a high wear item and thinner ropes just seen to get damaged or wear out so much faster

8.5mm is a good compromise of weight and durability

If you spend more time scrambling and less time potentially falling then I suppose you may go lighter however just abseiling and pulling ropes through can wear them quickly on rougher rock types

Standard grooved guide plate would be my preference as they are just so simple to use BD atc guide seem to wear better than the petzl ones

 MischaHY 18 Mar 2020
In reply to RR:

Honestly I really recommend a set of 50-60m triple rated ropes. At 50ish gram/m they're not as light as some but not that much heavier either and way more useful. You can use them as single if you want, they're more durable/cut resistant, easy to belay with... The list goes on. Edelrid Canary or Mammut Serenity are my faves. 

IMO any rope where you're not feeling inspired to fall on it doesn't have much use! 

As for a belay device - keep it simple and go for a Reverso or Pivot. Gigajul works well but is more faffy and heavier than the former, so I only really recommend it if you're going to be projecting or taking lots of whips on multipitch etc. 

Post edited at 13:47
OP RR 18 Mar 2020
In reply to Martin Bennett:

Sorry, my fault, I have ATC Guide. (Lasts longer then the Reverso 4.)But also pleasant.

OP RR 18 Mar 2020
In reply to Neil Williams:

Descending as well as belaying with the Mega Jul was not a success with me. The Mega Jul didn’t like me and it was visa versa, no love on first site. Someone else is now hopefully happy with it. Very likely it was just me (and my climbing partner) who has this aversion. 

 Daniel Joder 18 Mar 2020
In reply to RR:

Consider a DMM Pivot. I’m sold on mine. What I especially like is the ease of lowering a second while in guide mode—none of that scary on-off tendency of other similar devices. I use two 8.5x50m when I go out with two ropes—as someone mentioned above, durability. They weigh a ton, though, at the end of a 45m pitch.

 Martin Bennett 18 Mar 2020
In reply to RR:

> Sorry, my fault, I have ATC Guide. (Lasts longer then the Reverso 4.)But also pleasant.

Yes - I also prefer the orientation of the hanging loop for guide mode belaying.

 Mark Stevenson 18 Mar 2020
In reply to RR:

I had a very nice Xmas present of a set of Mammut Twilights, 7.5mm x 60m.

They will be specifically used for ice/snow routes and I've now climbed a handful of routes on the Ben with them, including half a dozen abseils and have been super impressed.

My current belay device is a Petzl Reverso 4 which works fine with them - although neither me nor any partners have taken any falls so I can't categorically confirm how well it holds falls... 

1
OP RR 19 Mar 2020
In reply to Mark Stevenson:

Hi Mark, 

Well thanks; the 7.5 mm makes sense to me, not ultra, ultra thin, weight wise also interesting. 

I don’t get it why one doesn’t like your answer, without motivation. 

Anyways, how is the rope protection and is it easy to handle.

Note: I mainly sport climb with a single rope and change them every two/three years as they wear, blacken and fray; my double and twin are well over 20 years, I still trust them, but for the summer/autumn in the Calanques, Victoire, etc it will be nice to go with a new set. 

 Jamie Wakeham 19 Mar 2020
In reply to RR:

I've held second falls on my 7.8mm Edelrid Apus (a little heavier than Mark's shoestrings) with a DMM pivot. I've also abseiled on that set up. Neither really felt much different to using a larger rope, and I think that we long as your device is matched to the appropriate diameter you'll be ok!

The Apus handle beautifully, by the way, and don't seem to be wearing too quickly. I am pretty careful of not abusing them, though - they certainly don't get used with novices!


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