UKH

Hey all, so I'm getting to the point where I'm looking at buying my first trad rack. I'm leading up to VS on trad and super keen on multipitch stuff. 

I'm thinking of investing in rock empire cams. They work out a lot cheaper and for me (a broke student) that really counts. Equally, don't want to buy something thats shit to use and doesn't last long. Anyone used them? Any thoughts?

Second question is the cam vs hex split. I'm debating between getting 6 cams, or 4 cams and a set of hexes. Any thoughts?

Thanks all

I would borrow some cams and see what feels right to you. I would personally rather buy some used Dragons/Camalots/Friends,.....or wait until Black Friday, there's usually some good deals. I think R&R have a decent discount on Camalots atm.

Not used Rock Empire cams though, maybe they're great, but I'd rather not be wondering when I'm gripped on lead somewhere! 

My first cams were RE. They're fine and work well enough, but of you can stretch to something premium you won't regret it down the line. My experience isn't that they won't last, all cams are pretty indestructible. They're just not as nice to use.

Got a RE cam along with the friend and dragon equivalents in that size (grey). It’s not as good (sort of clunkier to use, with a short sling and no thumb loop), but it does the job and seems perfectly robust. If the price is right, go for it, you can always double up later with something better. If it’s not much cheaper though, friends are just way better and you won’t have the urge to upgrade! Can’t remember the last time I used a hex.

Get some hexes. Pick up some DMM Torque nuts second hand, and if you don't use them any more you can sell them for what you paid for them.

I know everyone on here says they never use hexes and only use cams, but most of them are climbing grit. For easier mountain multipitch hexes are still worthwhile.

Always carry the green, red and yellow clangers on mountain routes! There are definitely also times I look up at a limestone pitch and know that I'll sink a whole rack of them. 

I bought my first RE cams in a cam site in Chamonix from a random bloke who was selling loads of them out of a bag. They were terrific, and I added more. I was adding them to a WC set of cams, and have still got them twenty or so years later

Safe? Yes.

As ergonomic and enjoyable to use as Dragons/C4s? No. 

From an incredibly brief google search a set of Dragons is £60 more than a set of Rock Empire cams. 

When gripped on a tricky pitch, no one every though to themselves "I'm glad I saved £10 on this cam".

Four cams + four hexes gives you eight placement options, six cams gives you six. However, you'll probably find your hexes will be overlapping sizes with your cams. 

It really depends what rock type you climb on most often as to what is useful, but either way you will make whatever is on your rack work. 

When working and instructing I often take the three largest hexes on wire with me, when personal climbing I rarely carry them unless I know I'm going on an adventure route which needs a big and varied rack. 

https://www.bergfreunde.it/rock-empire-axel-set-ancoraggio-regolabile/?aid=.....

419 euros for Rock Empire..

https://www.tradeinn.com/trekkinn/it/wildcountry-friend-set/136822655/p?utm...

360 euros for Friends

Easy choice there

I'm going to go with a controversial statement and say don't bother with the hexes. I bought hexes right at the start of my climbing and just didn't use them. So I haven't placed a hex in probably close to 25 years now, and I've never missed them. Spend the extra dough on good cams which you won't want to replace, or second hand ones off the bay and get a full set. Nothing wrong with Rock Empire, just not as nicely made. I will now go behind my hastily built bunproof wall and await the incoming fire from hex lovers world wide.

For me hexes are a specialist piece. They have a place and I do use them occasionally, most notably in winter, but they don't make sense on a beginner's rack. Cams are essential. The fact that hexes are cheaper is irrelevant, so are ball nuts. Buy more cams, you won't regret it.

If it's a choice between cams and hexes in general, go for cams. However if you can get a set of even 2 or 3 hexes, in the small to mid sizes they are very useful. I haven't done a mountain multipitch without placing at least 1 or 2 per pitch. But then again that's mainly on Granite and Gabbro in Scotland.

Folk say get cams for granite, but I find hexes just as useful, if only for the placements where you could get a cam in, but a hex works too and you can save the cam for when you actually need it

Nicely put.

I have far more cams than hexes in my gear storage box but always have a wry smirk when placing a bomber hex in a crack or feature  that would only take a mediocre cam.

On long alpine retreats/ descents, lost count of the times have abseiled off a single hex, cheap light and easy to assess if 100%.

You see for me, if I'm going on a route which might require something like that, I'd rather take Tricams - they can make just about any placement could make, but many a hex wouldn't be able to make. I know that again, that is a controversial opinion... but tricams have saved my bacon on a number of occasions when I simply wouldn't have had a placement without them...

I had never bought or used tricams due to the general dislike whenever there mentioned - I thought they were an oddity you'd hardly ever use - but my partner bought a set recently and I love them. 

Cheap, light to carry, cover a variety of placements, and seem totally bomber once set - never had one walk or lift out.

Really confidence inspiring - place it, think "that's a bolt", and get on with the climbing 🙂

What's not to like?

I really like tricams, they are great on limestone. But they are not a replacement for hexes, they are a completely different size range.

The thing is, you'll get a set of five hexes for the price of one cam, and at the start of building your rack that's just too good a deal in terms of potential placements per £ to turn down. If you had several hundred pounds spare then I might say go straight to cams, but there's a reason that everyone starts off with a bunch of hexes!

I would avoid cheap cams, though. You'll just end up flogging them when you realise how much nicer good ones are. 

So I'd start off with a set of five hexes and as many Dragons, Camalots or Friends as you can afford. I love Totems but they are even more expensive...

The other good reason why a first rack should include hexes is for the learning opportunity. Take the time when you're still on easy routes to learn how to place passive gear well. If a novice is desperately banging in a cam, they are out of their depth and need to back off.

That depends one what size you have! I have the red through to the green one which is admittedly unusual. The green one will do up to like yellow camalot size. 

I've got 3 rock empire cams, never used and 2 dmm's, well used. Happy to do a good deal for a student!  In fact, I could even throw in some hexes and keep UKC happy

If time is your friend you can get most sizes of cams on eBay, FB market place and here. I have been able to get a full rack of dragons off eBay over a couple of months, on average they where probably £50-55 with postage each.

You have Tricams and you don't have a pink? Is that even allowed?

Cams have their place, I am a regular user of hexes and I love tricams.  Passive pro feels so much safer to me. I tend to only place a cam if I can't get anything passive in. I am bemused at videos of US climbers only placing cams and ignoring great nut placements. 

I bought one once and the person I was with on the first route I took it on, lost it... so back to four of them. I don't climb on grit so the pink isn't that useful for me. I only pack them for winter really where they get placed regularly in iced cracks and weird spots when you're getting desperate for gear...

Really appreciate the offer - but I'm not super keen on used cams. Really appreciate the offer though!

Thanks for all your advice, all of it was super helpful. In the end, I think I'll go for a set of friends! Thanks all