UKH

I've been thinking about buying either the dual adjust or adjust connect from Petzl. I'm fairly new to trad and have mainly done single pitch but will be doing more multipitches and sport going forward. I want to avoid using slings and be able to easily adjust the length at anchors. I couldn't really find anything on this but can I use the Adjust connect to extend my belay device during an abseil?

Obviously, wouldn't be able to use it to both secure myself at the anchor and then use it for abseiling. So next question is the dual connect worth it? I'm not too bothered about the extra cost but rather about the extra bulk to carry around

I'm not sure whether the single adjust would have any advantages over a suitable length sling for extending the belay device in an abseil. I don't think the adjustability really adds anything.

As far as I can recall, the UK doesn't have many of the type of multiple-rope-length abseils where the dual version would come into its own. That's probably only worth getting if you're planning multi-pitch trips abroad. Even then, a lot of big climbs have a walk off instead of an abseil.

It may be worth having a look at the Edelrid Aramid slings which are easy to tie knots in and untie and move them about. I have no problem being tied in and using it for extended abseils. I have been using one all summer in the alps and in Yosemite. I like it because of its multi functionality, lightness and having looked at all the lanyards found them bulky and with not such varied use.

The only thing I prefer the Connect Adjust system for is its on dynamic rope, less shock in case of a slip, though with care its not something that worries me.

Just an idea that may or may not be of use to you. 

If I was a continental/in the US doing LOTS of multipitch with bolted anchors/sport, I MIGHT get one.

Otherwise, I'm happier with building belays from my rope and content to use a sling to extend my ab point/clip in.

Its hardly a necessity, but I think is is quite useful for multipitch climbing and rappelling.  Having used every type of system under the sun, I was surprised about how pleasant is to have continuous adjustability.

For single pitch trad, having any real need for one is a stretch.

I think the dual version is too bulky, and you don't need a 9mm dynamic extension for your rap device.  Extend the rap device with a dyneema sling and used the Connect Adjust as your tether.

If you get it, make sure to have or buy a carabiner that works well with it.

I bought mine for using when I'm sport climbing - for that it's absolutely superb, by far the best lanyard I've used. For trad, I have it on my harness because I own it, but I rarely use it unless I'm constructing powerpoint belays and using a magic plate or an Italian hitch for belaying. In the alps on multipitch when I'm not swinging leads, it's great. Abseiling, I'd tend not to use it for my belay device but for clipping the anchors!

I wouldn't bother on trad, personally - you'll already have plenty to carry, and slings are lighter and more versatile. I can see the point for sport, though.

Get one, they're brilliant and totally underrated. 

As stated above, great for long multipitch routes and long abseil descents. Much safer than any static sling lanyard or "PAS*, which are fundamentally dangerous except for aid climbing.

They are brilliant, especially for winter climbing and multi-pitch routes with bolted belays.  Personally I wouldn't bother with the double, as the whole point to my mind is that it's adjustable.  Clip in to one point with the tether, krab and clove hitch into the other and you're done.  Haven't used mine for trad rock climbing for one reason or another.

Thanks, which carabiner do you use with it?

http://www.grivel.com/products/snow/carabiners/23-sigma_k8g

I like the automatically-locked feature and the fact that I can clip and unclip with just one hand.  The only drawback is that it doesn't fit through certain (very) fat rings---i.e. I can't clip directly to the links in some chains.  This has never been an issue for me but some others I know allow themselves to be annoyed by it.

I use my connect adjust with a locksafe dmm perfecto. Not everyone’s cup of tea but I like it. 

I use mine all the time, sport trad and winter. Can't see the point in the dual one though - if abseiling, when are you going to be in a position when you don't have a spare sling to extend your abseil device? (Other than the last of a desperate descent and its your last bit of gear, by which time you won't be worried about extending it as long as it gets you down the bloody rope!)

You can ab with it - just clove hitch the ab device half way down the rope bit. But why bother?

I bought the orange Petzl crab that is recommended. It works better than any of the many types I have lurking in the box. It also has the red danger indicator if not done up - which is a nice reminder being as its a belay.

A PAS is much more use, lighter and easier to carry. (Make sure it is a true PAS made of a series of individually sewn loops {22kN}, not a Daisy which is one sling sewn into a series of shorter loops and only suitable for aid/bodyweight {2kN}!) Used a PAS for years,  for multi pitch, alpine and the top of sport. Don't really need anything for single pitch trad as I mostly use the rope!

A true PAS is rated at 22kN and is a personal anchor system designed for that. You are thinking of a daisy chain which is used for aid, and is only suitable for body weight, and is rated as low as 2 kN. Black Diamond have warnings on their daisy that it is dangerous to use it as a PAS.

They are very different beasts. I have both and now tend to use the PAS even for aid, the daisy being now redundant.

A PAS has serious limitations aswell which the connect does not. It is an inelastic system which means if you fall pretty much at all on it, you will be seriously hurt from the impact. You say it's less bulky? I beg to differ - these lanyards are slim and neat. I used to covet a PAS kind of, until I used the Connect. They are infinitely adjustable, you can yard in on them making them effectively an adjustable daisy, which if you are frigging a sport route is invaluable, and they are able to absorb a fall, partly due to their elastic rope and partly due to slippage. Personally I wouldn't recommend a PAS any more now that these are on the market.

Self and pals use a Kong Slyde. £4,99 from Decathlon. You need about a metre of rope. Adjustable, and dynamic. Does exactly what the Adjust does but a fraction of the cost. Very common on the continent. Really underrated bit of kit  

It isn't quite the same; the Connect is smoother overall, and it is harder to extend the tether one-handed with the Slyde---at least in the implementations I've seen.  (With the Slyde, you supply your own rope, so there can be a lot of differences in set-ups.  On the plus side, you get to decide how long the tether should be.) 

I haven't used the petzl in anger so I can't really comment on its ease of adjustment. I'd agree it's probably a better bit of kit. I would hope so at the price premium.

The Slyde can be adjusted one handed. Experience let's you find the right tension. I definitely prefer it over a sling. 

Trad climbing - Why not just clove hitch the rope to the belay protection, easy quick adjustable and you have ( at least)  one tied to your harness

Carry an additional cam, wire, hex, sling etc etc instead of dedicated bit of rope - it might be the difference between success and retreat

Yes the Slyde can be adjusted one handed, and … it takes “some” effort, for training to much doing for me. Solo sport climbing (mainly top roping training) I see myself using a Grivel PAS because as it’s easier/faster. I can see the advantage of the two slings Petzl in that sense. No tension like on the PAS to clip the descender/Reverso if a on a hanging belay station. For multi pitch we use the Slyde with a longer thin ropes, so you can ease move around on the relais/belay. The change is faster and gives better overview then the use of the rope to anker, but more weight so for longer routes a clove hitch is preferable for me.

Tethers aren't necessary, but in various types of multipitch situations are a significant convenience.  Even so, their value is basically the sum of various small applications, something the folks who argue against one particular use always miss.

The first thing I'd say is it is, at least to me, surprising how nice it can be to have an easily adjustable connection to the anchor.  I doubt I'm the only person who has rigged a stance and wished, in the middle of a long belay session, that an adjustment in position could be made to relieve some muscular strain or a painful pressure point.

Having a tether installed and ready to go is nice for multiple rappels, and as for the belay situation it is somewhat surprising to me how nice it is to be able to quickly adjust. 

On routes where the climbers are unroped for some of the time, the presence of the tether makes it easy to transfer to being anchored.  I've done some routes where one climbs unroped to a rappel spot that is rather exposed, and it is nice to just clip in without faffing around with slings that might be pinned under a pack or rope coils.

When following trad, the second sometimes needs both hands to free a stuck piece, and in that case they have to hang.  This can be extremely problematic if the rope direction above is not ideal, if the belayer is out of communication range, and/or if there is a lot of stretch in the rope.  It is very often possible to either place or use an in-situ piece to hang from, and this is almost always better than hanging on the rope.  in this case, an adjustable tether makes a big difference in how easy it is to set up such a situation.

On a multipitch climb, the second should ideally be ready to go as soon as the leader has taken up the rope and is on belay.  A good way to implement this is to tether-in to the best of the anchor's multiple points and undo the rest of the anchor rigging and pieces while the leader is constructing the anchor at the top of the pitch.  When the on-belay call comes, the second has just to unclip their tether and remove the single remaining piece.

It sometimes happens that the leader has to improvise direct aid for a section of the route, either because the climbing is just too hard or because conditions like running water have made it too hard or because a storm has made everything slippery. If you have to improvise direct aid without all the accouterments carried on a wall, the adjustable tether blows every other option totally out of the water.

Various self-rescue situations such as the second having to prusik up the rope are made simpler if there is an already installed tether.

But you''re concocting an either-or situation where none exists.  I've certainly never ever heard someone wonder whether they should leave a tether behind in order to take an extra piece, for example.

Good post, comprehensive list of funky things you can do with tether, I like the aiding in the wet scenario the most.

However I reckon i would only really benefit on 1 in 5 routes so probably not for me.

PS completely agree about that being ready to go thing but not sure I would be off any quicker, slipping the final clove hitch and lifting the gear is pretty quick

Another thing they can be helpful for, I think not mentioned above, is when block leading - seems much simpler to clip in on a personal tether than arrange and re-arrange clove hitches on the leader's and second's ropes when at the belay.

You may have a point but I don't know anyone that block leads in Cumbria

I can just about belay for one pitch without getting suicidal

I will really appreciate the reason why a motivated dislike is given, said different please let me know why you think I am wrong. Thank you.

what about  purcell prussik - https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/gear/purcell_prussik-545615

Tried it.  The Purcell prusik isn't even remotely as useful if you have in mind the full range of applications I mentioned in my earlier post.  For one thing, you only get to adjust to half the full length of the tether.  It takes two hands to adjust it either way, and you can't adjust it while it is weighted.  A chain-type PAS is better.  The only advantage of the Purcell prusik is you can cut it up for rappel slings, which is how I got rid of mine.

One downside of any anchor system which remains attached (larksfooted) to the belay loop is just that - it's cluttering things up at the front of the harness, both with the larks foot and the loop of sling/lanyard running over to a gear loop. FWIW I prefer a fixed length dynamic pre-stitched lanyard for sport, and Dyneema slings for trad, but regardless - in both cases they're almost always on a gear loop around the back, so that the front of harness area is clear for pulling rope up, clipping, etc.  

There are loads of adjustable lanyards on the market and a few types you can make yourself (some more spicy than others).

I wrote a little piece on it here, if you want to read it
http://www.jimwaltonmia.com/single-post/2017/10/20/Review-of-Adjustable-Lan...

One that I didn't mention (as its not adjustable) is the Beal Dynaconnexion https://sport.beal-planet.com/index.php?id_product=1582&controller=prod...

This is a dynamic length of cord that has two connection points sewn in making it an excellect abseil lanyard.  It is, however, somewhat of a one trick pony and not much use for anythig else.

Personally if someone was to merge the Petzl Connect (more expensive but easier to adjust than the Slyde) with the Dynaconnexion then I think we would have a nice clean adjustable lanyard with a separate clip in point for abseils.  I currently clove hitch my abseil device into the rope of my connect adjust but its not as neat as a sewn in and tested loop.

For what it's worth, the UIAA now have a standard for belay lanyards and that can be found by googling UIAA 109 Belay Lanyard.

You've basically just described the dual connect adjust. 

https://www.petzl.com/INT/en/Sport/Lanyards/DUAL-CONNECT-ADJUST

Not really, the dual connect is two lengths of rope.  It's crap, as the 2nd length just gets in the way for all the time when not in use (which would be 99.9% of the time).  What I want is shown in the photo below

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Arc-xh5d4wOuwAT9FD0hJcgNNR3l

Surely that wouldn't allow any adjustment shorter than the knot? I use a PAS quite a lot and I wouldn't bother if I couldn't pull it very short when circumstances dictate - which turns out to be quite often.

Also, I don't use any extension for abseiling - prefer to clip directly to harness - but what would be the problem with just adjusting the lanyard to an appropriate length and clipping that to the ab device? Why would you need a separate loop?

For what I mainly use a lanyard for (clipping into anchors when rigging, clipping into someone elses anchors when instructing and for Multi-pitch abseils), i don't normally have to adjust the lanyard right up tight to my harness.  Normally 200mm away is fine. "...but what would be the problem with just adjusting the lanyard to an appropriate length and clipping that to the ab device? Why would you need a separate loop?..." The dis-advatage of that is that it doesn't leave you with an adjustable cows tail to clip into the next anchor/abseil station when multi pitch abseiling.  I like to extend my ab device away from my harness and then clip the prussic direct into my harness and not into a leg loop (nothing wrong with clipping to leg loop, i just prefer to clip my back up into the load point on the harness).   Like i said before, I currently do this by just clove hitching my ab device into the section of rope between the harness and the connector on the Lanyard.  To have a nice fixed loop would just be a little cleaner. Below is a photo of the Beal Dynaconnexion is use coming off a route in the Dolomites.  Currently its a one trick pony and I think the ab loop clip in loop is a tad too far away but I'm never satisfied

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Arc-xh5d4wOuvSq4daMGDJgLV_KM

Thanks. Not being a fan of extending ab devices, I'd not considered the need for two separate extenders at the same time.

Another good reason just to ab straight from the belay loop

On long or multipitch abs extending the device works great, its much easier to control the prussick and keep and eye on it. Plus you don't end up all caddywhompus hanging from one leg if you need to lock off the prussick and do something with your hands as everthing attacheds to the belay point on the harness. The dual connect adjust only really comes into its own on long multipitch routes with long multipitch abs off bolted belays, exactly like we don't have in the UK.

I'll take your word for it, but I've never found any issue with leg-loop prusiks at all, never mind one that justifies carrying a piece of kit that's simply not needed. My harness is usually full enough already.

Each to their own though; some folk seem to like carrying stuff.

Use a single sided connect adjust for the adjustable tether. For the extended abseil use a 18cm or 25cm dogbone with a screwgate on the end with the tadpole. Leave it on the back of your harness until it is needed then larksfoot it to your belay loop when needed. 

If you can do without the adjustable tether then a 120cm sling can be set up with a knot in it. Or if you want the dynamic rope then a length of rope with an alpine butterfly and a scaffold hitch and a double fig-8 would also do the trick.

I understand the sentiment, until you've done day after day of sport multipitch abs (Ailefroide or similar) it's hard to see the advantages as they don't make too much difference on shorter abs.

I think I've done my share of multi-pitch abs. As I say, each to their own; I'll carry less and I'll just have to live with the enormous hassle of ... carrying less.

If you're carrying a 120cm sling anyway you're not carrying less. Just saying....

in which case please forgive me. I must have misinterpreted the thread title

... and the OP

... and each of your posts.

My posts certainly

Like 

If you're trying to be minimalist then as someone else said, clove hitch to the anchor. Then use a sling to extend your device as you should have a selection of slings anyway for trad. Adjustable and free!

another vote for the Kong Slyde

review here: https://offbelay2018.wixsite.com/offbelay/blog/steppin-in-a-slyde-zone

truly an under rated piece of kit.

I used a purcell prussik for years.  Started using a Kong Slyde this season and no way im looking back.

The Petzl Connects are definitely smoother but the price difference is quite significant.  

... however, to be fair, part of what you're paying for is the lanyard with prestitched loop and termination, which make things neater and a lot less clunky than DIY knotted rope. The Slyde should be cheap - it's just a little bit of metal with three holes in it!

My question is what crab on the Petzl Connect is ideal? You use the Grivel Sigma K8G as I read, it has two opposite lockers. Seems a little odd.

I am thinking to give the Grivel Tau K12L crab a try in combination with the Petzl Connect. As I notice I don’t always close (complete) the screw gate crab on belays when top roping solo, doing laps. Should this combination work (to thick etc) and/or is it too much fiddling?

The opposite gate system on the Sigma gives automatic locking and is easy to clip in with and unclip with using just one hand, which seems to me to be perfectly suited to use with a tether. 

A consideration with the Petzl Connect is how the braking plaquette sits on the small end of the carabiner.  The plaquette has to be able to rotate smoothly and shouldn't have to be pushed up one side of the bottom "U."  You can only tell this by going into the shop with your connect and trying out carabiners.

I haven't seen the Tau except in the Grivel catalog, so don't know about the ease of one-handed operation with it, nor whether the Connect plaquette works properly in the narrow end of the carabiner.

Thank you for your response. I will try/buy both type crabs and let know if the Tau works as easy as promised. (This will take some time.) With a smile: to buy a few of these crabs is not a luxury, rational seen, with my sloppy behaviour not (always) closing screw gates. Anyways thanks.

Between the Sigma and the Tau i think the Tau is far easiet to operate.

heres a review of the Tau with metion of the Sigma

https://offbelay2018.wixsite.com/offbelay/blog/open-the-gate?fbclid=IwAR3vi...

as for compatibility with the Connect someone will have to verify that.  I find both biners to be slightly thicker than small screwgates so flipping them around rings/hangers/etc they are more likely to maybe get caught on something.  the Sigma is fatter for sure though due to the double gates.

both are "auto locking" is supposed.  Accidentally opening a Tau is probably a tiny bit more likely than accidentally opeing a Sigma or a regular screw gate

I've been using a petzl dual adjust for a few years now, it pretty much lives on my harness but there are definitely some scenarios where it shines and some where it is a little more redundant.

I think it really comes into its own when alpine climbing, lots of sketchy belays where you need to move around and lots of less than perfect abseils. The ability to have a clean and simple dedicated system for safely securing yourself and abseiling when it's dark and you're exhausted I'm sure has stopped some disasters. Not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet but you can also use the adjust to lower yourself from the abseil anchor to weight your belay plate and check it's correct whilst still safely being secured to the anchor.

I have to say in the UK the dual adjust isn't that useful due to a lack of abseils, the abseil tether just gets clipped to the back of my harness out the way. However, I'm waiting to have some spare money to buy the petzl adjust instead! Lots of my friends originally weren't sold on the idea, tried it and realised that always being comfortable at belays is quite a nice thing! So I'd say don't knock it until you've tried it.

I'm usually all about being lightweight and keeping things simple, but for how much extra safety and comfort the adjust brings to such a safety critical part of climbing, it's worth the slight extra bulk and weight on my harness.

Thanks for your sharing your thoughts and experiences.

As stated in my earlier mail I have ordered the Grivel crabs, not received yet, so I don’t know which one is most easy handling (for me). And as said I will notify you here later when tried them in real life. I should order a Grivel Clepsydra crab as well to compare since they have a different size, shape and use? The Clepsydra might also be more convenient for belaying, since it seems quite big and quite heavy for attaching to a (Petzl) tether.

For now in the locale crack my experience is that two biners (one HMS/screw gate on the cow tail and one quick draw) through on/in one Petzl bolt (25 KN) it’s doable to feed the (rappel)rope (Mammut 9,8 Infinity) as a third “object” through the eye of a belay station (bolt) when wanting to rappel. But one “safe closed” crab on the Connect should be enough and leaves so plenty space for the rope to feed through the belay/rappel bolt. A thicker crab like the Grivels should not be a problem if used alone. Probably using the Grivel crabs is faster, safer because less chances of making “mistakes” or not closing.

Besides I like contrasting colors for the climbing rope (bleau or green) and the tether (now a Grivel Pas = yellow/red) or a red/green Tendon rope (8,9 mm) on the Kong Slyde), making it also less likely to mistakes.

Thanks again.

I haven't seen the Tau except in the Grivel catalog, so don't know about the ease of one-handed operation with it, nor whether the Connect plaquette works properly in the narrow end of the carabiner.

A consideration with the Petzl Connect is how the braking plaquette sits on the small end of the carabiner.  The plaquette has to be able to rotate smoothly and shouldn't have to be pushed up one side of the bottom "U." You can only tell this by going into the shop with your connect and trying out carabiners.

You are right, the “U” of the Tau K12L is way too small to let rotate the brake plaquette of the Petzl Connect correctly. So the Grivel Tau is a "no go" in combination with the Petzl Connect. 

I connected the Tau to my Grivel PAS and that works really fine. The Tau operates (for me) as easy (or easier) as a normal locking crab, also with cold hands. 

The “belayclipspring thing” of the Grivel Clesydra does not close/fit with the Petzl Connect brake plaquette. So that is also not an option. 

Until now I am still “learning” to operate the other Grivel crabs. As a rappel mousquetons. I am still not used to open the two opposite clips with cold hands. 

Aside.The Clesydra works very well in combination with a Petzl Shunt for solo top roping. There is less chance to cross load the Clesydra then the Belaymaster which I used until now.