UKH

Hi,

Not sure if this post should be in gear or sale/wanted.

What is your opinion about buying new safety gear from private sellers on ebay / amazon (marketplace - not direct from amazon).

E.g.

I'm looking to buy a set of cams. Wild Country / DMM set of 3 RRP is about £190.

But seem to sell on ebay / Amazon marketplace for about £125. Would you buy them?

They're listed as new in packaging. I suppose I'm a bit worried that they may be manufacturer rejects / the sling might be sun damaged etc.

A few ebay item numbers to demonstrate;

324011615017

164018509002

Thoughts?

In reply to alex_frost33:

There's currently a good thread running of where most people get their gear from, I would look at the recommendations there before thinking of Fleebay or Slamerzon! https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/gear/wheres_everyone_buying_their_climbin...

In reply to alex_frost33:

I wouldn't buy any safety related gear from ebay, there's just too much dodgy stuff on there. I have bought a climbing helmet off Amazon but I checked on the supplier first to be safe, as there is quite a bit of dodgy stuff on Amazon as well. Kit that seems to from the UK is often from unknown Chinese manufacturers. If it is a private seller I still wouldn't buy safety related gear, you don't know how it has been used or abused. If it's cheap (perhaps more than 20% off retail) it's cheap for a reason. Try Needlsports or other recommended retailers, there's lots of good deals around. If we don't support local retailers they will go out of business and we are all worse off when that happens.

In reply to alex_frost33:

Go outdoors have 3 DMM dragons for £121.50 at the moment.

In reply to alex_frost33:

Wouldn't even look at fleabay or amazon for anything safety related.

In reply to alex_frost33:

I want there to be specialist shops in the future, so I mostly buy my kit from them now.  I'm lucky enough that I don't have to count the pennies these days, so I generally don't ask them to price match and I don't mither them for a discount.  In my case usually Outside in Hathersage for climbing kit, Accelerate in Attercliffe for running shoes.  Not preaching from a pulpit here, I also love a Decathlon/Aldi/Lidl bargain as much as anybody.

The ebay stuff might be dodgy, might be absolutely fine.  And you can almost certainly tell which by asking the seller a question and gauging the tone of their reply, the 'vibe' you get from them, as much as what they actually say.  (If indeed they bother to reply at all.) 

It's not for me though.  If anything I'd rather buy second-hand gear from someone who obviously knows what it is and has a credible reason to be selling it.

In reply to alex_frost33:

Thanks for the replies. Its appreciated.

I fully appreciate the point about not buying safety gear marketed as "selling for a mate - dont ask me any questions". And I also aknowledge the point about supporting local businesses.

I'm more interested in the views of buying stuff from ebay that's new and still in original packaging (like items 324011615017 & 164018509002 ).

The DMM cams at Go Outdoors has a discount greater than 20% off RRP, should that be avoided too?

(FYI I'm looking to buy DMM cam set size 2-4 or WC friends set 1-3. But ideally DMM as they're UK based and DMM offer service & sling replacement)

In reply to alex_frost33:

Sometimes the bigger discount is for the older model (Rock Run had the previous generation dragons for a massive discount when the current version came out). That said the picture on the go outdoors site looks like the current ones

On the ebay item looks like you can make out the serial number, could drop WC a line and ask if they can confirm they are legit?

In reply to:

Short answer - don't! 

Longer answer - it is almost inconceivable that someone would counterfeit wild country cams. If they are tagged with the instruction leaflet and are in correct packaging, they will be legit and will have passed quality control.

The possible issues that remain;

Could they be recalled products - very very unlikely - do your research. 

Could there be invisible damage? Very unlikely, UV degradation is obvious. Acid exposure is unlikely if they are in plastic packaging. 

Are they stolen? This is fairly likely if the price is 'wrong' rather than just cheap. Do you want to support such people? 

So weigh up your risks - most people would happily pay the difference saved just for peace of mind- how careful/paranoid are you? 

In reply to alex_frost33:

Both Amazon and Ebay have some information about who the seller is. In some cases, you can see a business seller with a real address. In that case, sure, I buy through ebay/amazon if it's not cheaper on their own website, of if it's the same price but more convenient to not create an account on the website.

Neither of the ones you mention fall into that category though. I reckon they are probably either unwanted Christmas gifts or hot property. Both sellers seem to be selling too many high value unused items to be the former though. I probably wouldn't buy them.

In reply to alex_frost33:

I bought all my first cams from ebay because I couldn't afford new ones. They were all new or very light use, they cost a pittance compared to new (I think I paid average £20 per cam for new or newish cams) and they held many falls on many routes. 

Usual sensibility with the internet applies, of course. 

In reply to alex_frost33:

F@CK Amazon all day long when it comes to climbing/safety gear.

In reply to alex_frost33:

I'd avoid, generally the smell of Amazon's take on their responsibility (lack of) is a bit 'off'

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/07/amazon-on-the-hook-for-third-pa...

In reply to alex_frost33:

Many 'proper outdoor shops' sell on ebay/Amazon. You may find that the 'private seller' is a business looking extra outlets for their goods. Not climbing equipment but I was looking to buy an item of HiFi from Amazon and found Richer Sounds were selling it there in the 'used and new' section. In the end it was more convenient to buy from them direct and have it delivered to the shop for collection (an option they didn't offer on the Amazon listing) and I've bought a head torch from a shop selling through ebay.

If what they are selling is 'brand new and sealed' Wild Country or DMM kit, then it is hard to see how it is inherently more or less reliable than other sources on the internet. Also you should be covered by Amazon/ebay buyer guarantees if the turn out to be fakes, faulty etc

In reply to climberclimber321:

A measured response. So you wouldn't risk electrical goods presumably?

What about this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DMM-Wallnut-Set-Rock-Climbing/dp/B002JQIBRC/ref=sr...

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

I realise this is beside the point you're making, but fits in nicely with what I've been banging on about above...

On the right hand side, just below the 'Buy Now' button:
"Dispatched from and sold by Inglesport Ltd."

https://www.inglesport.com/product/dmm-wallnut-climbing-protection-sets/

In reply to deepsoup:

D'Oh!  My mistake.  That's a completely different thread.. 
https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/the_pub/has_amazon_turned_into_ebay_20-71...

Edit to add:
The point I was making on that thread being this:  if you're going to buy those nuts from Inglesport, don't buy them via Amazon ffs, buy them from Inglesport!

In reply to alex_frost33:

I own my own business now but I’ve been on the dark side in the past and I can say with almost certainty the eBay seller selling those cams, based on their other items is just a career shoplifter. I’m regularly offered the 3 packs of cams and nuts sets that are for sale in the big outdoors chains by old friends who still live this lifestyle. 
 

One word of caution is while these are just people trying to pay their bills (funding organised crime is a load of shite and none of the people i knew did drugs) - these people often wouldn’t know how to handle or store these things correctly thus I wouldn’t recommend buying them.