/ Neoshell - are any brands still using this?

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Tallie - on 16:30 Mon

My Neoshell jacket (Marmot Zion) is approaching the end of its life. I'd really like to replace it with another Neoshell jacket but apart from Westcomb I'm struggling to find any manufacturers that produce Neoshell jackets?  Anyone know if there's anything in the pipeline from any brand for next season?

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grump gnome - on 16:41 Mon
Tallie - on 16:48 Mon
In reply to grump gnome:

Yes I saw that but with the exception of Montane (which appears to be no longer making that jacket) they're all US / Canadian brands that are hard to get hold of over here.  I was wondering if any of the reviewing team had heard of new jackets coming out for next winter?

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Frank R. on 17:28 Mon
In reply to grump gnome:

As far as I am aware, several of them are already discontinued (Montane, Mountain Hardwear).

Although if OP is looking for a more air permeable jacket like NeoShell, there are now others made by similar process (electro-spinning and similar techniques to make polyurethane fibers form a porous membrane have become cheaper and advanced last few years). Perhaps something like Outdoor Research Interstellar or their other Ascentshell jackets? No personal experience, though it was reviewed here at UKC.

Post edited at 17:29
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DenzelLN - on 17:54 Mon
In reply to Tallie:

Does Jottnar not use neoshell?

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Frank R. on 18:24 Mon
In reply to DenzelLN:

No, Jöttnar dropped it for the 2019 collection, going instead with their own branded membrane.

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jethro kiernan - on 18:56 Mon
In reply to Tallie:

https://rab.equipment/uk/kinetic-alpine-jacket

have a look at this, I’d consider this once my montane neoshell gives up 

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In reply to jethro kiernan:

Funnily enough I’ve recently got one of these in for review, only for us to have an extended dry spell - as such haven’t had a chance to fully test out its waterproofing capabilities.

That said, I can comment on the general fit + feel. The cut is, as you would hope from Rab, exemplary. There’s limited to no lift, despite it being well fitted around the shoulders + underarms. I could see myself using it for a wide variety of activities throughout from spring to autumn, ranging from running to a ‘just in case’ piece whilst climbing.

However, all of this is arbitrary if it stays dry, so bear with - the rain (and the review) will come sooner or later!

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Ramon Marin - on 10:48 Tue
In reply to DenzelLN:

no they dont anymore. It's a shame because I thought Neoshell totally transformed my scottish winter climbing experience. I thought the whole thing was a marketing bullsh*-t but it does really work very well specially in very wet and haviung to exert at the same time. I used GT pro shell before which was very good at keeping you dry but didnt breath in the wet like Neoshell did. I hope something as god comes up again

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jethro kiernan - on 10:52 Tue
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

The rain will always come!

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BnB - on 14:06 Tue
In reply to Ramon Marin:

> no they dont anymore. It's a shame because I thought Neoshell totally transformed my scottish winter climbing experience. I thought the whole thing was a marketing bullsh*-t but it does really work very well specially in very wet and haviung to exert at the same time. I used GT pro shell before which was very good at keeping you dry but didnt breath in the wet like Neoshell did. I hope something as god comes up again

Couldn’t agree more. Simply perfect for Scottish winter. So breathable compared to Goretex. I saw the end coming and bought a spare!

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BnB - on 14:10 Tue
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

> Funnily enough I’ve recently got one of these in for review, only for us to have an extended dry spell - as such haven’t had a chance to fully test out its waterproofing capabilities.

> That said, I can comment on the general fit + feel. The cut is, as you would hope from Rab, exemplary. There’s limited to no lift, despite it being well fitted around the shoulders + underarms. I could see myself using it for a wide variety of activities throughout from spring to autumn, ranging from running to a ‘just in case’ piece whilst climbing.

Snap. I got one a month or so back and haven’t had the chance to test it in anything worse than a chilly breeze. I think the arms are maybe a little short by Rab standards. Another cm wouldn’t hurt. Otherwise, looks a great bit of kit and very comfortable over just a tee shirt.

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Tallie - on 16:17 Tue
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Thanks Rob - I'll look out for the review although at first glance Rab don't appear to be claiming it's anywhere near as breathable as Neoshell?

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EarlyBird - on 16:24 Tue
In reply to BnB:

I only have Neoshell for a cycling jacket - Sportful Fiandre - and it's amazing. I've never had a better jacket. Perfect shell for making an effort in crap conditions. 

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BnB - on 17:26 Tue
In reply to Tallie:

I don't have the figures to hand but when I checked the Rab membrane is considerably more breathable even the Neoshell, while claiming the same waterproofing. I look forward to putting my Kinetic to a proper test over a period longer than the DWR endures*

*Note to gear reviewers everywhere: please stop telling us that, first time out, the DWR works great with plenty of beading. Tell us how waterproof the garment is after the DWR has worn off!

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Tallie - on 19:03 Tue
In reply to BnB:

> I don't have the figures to hand but when I checked the Rab membrane is considerably more breathable even the Neoshell, while claiming the same waterproofing. I look forward to putting my Kinetic to a proper test over a period longer than the DWR endures*

> *Note to gear reviewers everywhere: please stop telling us that, first time out, the DWR works great with plenty of beading. Tell us how waterproof the garment is after the DWR has worn off!

I may be misreading the (difficult to find definitively) data but from their description of this jacket (https://rab.equipment/uk/mens/kinetic-plus-jacket), which appears to use the same material, Rab are stating "a high performance, flexible membrane with a waterproof measure of 10,000mm and an exceptional breathability level in excess of 35,000cc/sqm/24hrs.".

Neoshell states the same level of waterproofing but a breathability of 5 times that of Goretex (from this review: https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/clothing/softshell/polartec_neoshell_and_the_rab_stretch_neo_jacket-4487) which is either 125, 000 or 75, 000 depending on whether you're talking about Pro-shell or pac-lite? Or have I mixed my units up?

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beh on 19:05 Tue
In reply to Tallie:

Does anyone know why brands aren't using it anymore?  Seems the same thing happened with their Power Shield Pro fabric.  I recall reading somewhere that it was the cost but is it just that Goretex is a more marketable brand?

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BnB - on 20:27 Tue
In reply to Tallie:

I think you might be jumbling up the units but I can't find the data on which I originally relied. I'd say unscientifically that the Rab Kinetic "feels" slightly more breathable than Neoshell and also "feels" like it would be slightly less waterproof. But that may have more to do with the face fabric than anything else.

Post edited at 20:27
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Frank R. on 13:18 Wed
In reply to Tallie:

As far as I understand it, you can't really compare MVTR numbers between brands and fabrics that much (6000 vs 30000 is probably meaningful, but 10000 vs 20000 much less so). It's not a completely unbiased rating. Too many variables, test techniques and methodologies, some of which are better suited for one type of fabric, another for different types of fabric (microporous vs. nonporous hydrophilic).

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Tallie - on 17:55 Fri
In reply to Frank R.:

Good point.  Is the Rab material their version of Neoshell?  The membrane seems to be made of PU as is Neoshell?

l'm hoping that this isn't another vhs / Betamax moment where the better technology (for sweaty users at least!) is ousted by better marketing and effective market domination. 

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