Insulated pants

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 munro90 23 Oct 2020

I’ve been contemplating a pair of insulated pants for winter camping/coldest winter days, rather than carrying a spare pair of heavyweight softshell troos. Looking for people’s experiences?

Instinct suggests that in a British climate synthetic is probably superior to down.

Options include:

Montane Prism (very light, but short side zips and is 40g/m2 primaloft warm enough?)

Mountain Equipment Compressor (also light, full length side zips, 80g polarloft)

Haglofs Barrier (slightly heavier, but full length zips and 74g of their insulation)

Rab Photon (heaviest, full length zips, 100g/m2 insulation, waterproof bum and knee patches)

Anybody tried any of these or have any wisdom to offer?

Removed User 23 Oct 2020
In reply to munro90:

Greatest things since down booties. Research easily shows how much heat is lost through the legs so in my mind a no brainer. Just be wary of trouser guilt as you pull yours on and others look on enviously.

Without question you want synthetic. Aside from moisture thing, used as belay pants they will get trashed so you don't need the expense. Grab a roll of spinnaker tape when you get them.

If you can, try them on and factor in, if they're intended as belay pants, they need to go over other layers and a harness. Don't buy too slim.

I've had a few pairs, from OR, the ME ones, Montane, Arc'teryx and Rab.

The ME's were quite ridged and bulky (years ago, maybe the insulation has changed now).

The OR's are the slimmest, similar to the Montane's, though you do want the full zips for belays, getting them over crampons etc. They'll be fine for the UK - unless you ever try the Rab or Arc'teryx ones and see what you're missing out on.

The Rab's and Arcteryx about the same warmth and weight and very comfortable, the extra grams are probably worth it. The Arc'teryx's of course more expensive and I don't think made any more anyway and not perceptibly any better than the Rab's for it. Both have heavier duty arse and knees which is worth having.

 Dr.S at work 23 Oct 2020
In reply to munro90:

Ha, in the same position, I picked up a pair of salomon primaloft shorts which were great in Norway this spring, but an over the top layer is attractive.

as well as the ones in the first reply:

PHD do some synthetic trousers, as do As Tucas

OMM have a synthtic set with funky zip options

biggest issue with the more niche suppliers is getting to try them on!

 wilkesley 23 Oct 2020
In reply to munro90:

I have got both Montane Prism and Rab Photon (old so may be different now). Rab are definitely warmer, but probably overkill unless you camp on very cold days. Montane Prism have been fine for me when the temperature outside the tent is about minus four centigrade. Assumes you have a decent sleeping bag too.

In reply to munro90:

I have the ME Compressor trousers. They're great, I took them along last night on a bivvy in the Pentlands with a 5 degree bag and was toasty enough to lie on top of my bag for an hour before going to sleep. I also use them for winter camps, winter lunch stops and camping on summits in the Spring and Autumn. Every time I put them on, I love the fact I purchased them.
 

  • Pros - Very warm, full-length zips make them easy to put on and they pack down to a decently small size
  • Cons - Super slidy shell fabric, thin and not very robust (but keeps them light)
Post edited at 21:46
 John Kelly 23 Oct 2020
In reply to munro90:

Play hell with your sperm count!!!!

 Andy Hardy 23 Oct 2020
In reply to John Kelly:

> Play hell with your sperm count!!!!

Nah, it only takes one.

Clauso 23 Oct 2020
In reply to John Kelly:

> Play hell with your sperm count!!!!

I've always struggled to count mine anyhow: my eyes are buggered. 

 tingle 23 Oct 2020
In reply to munro90:

The standard response I see to insulated trousers debate is that keeping the legs together and insulated is warmer for its weight than apart eg gloves/mitts. It’s the only thing that stopped me buying some for camping, Obviously if you want to use them actively or aren’t bothered about the extra weight they are nice

2
In reply to tingle:

> The standard response I see to insulated trousers debate is that keeping the legs together [...]

Makes walking rather difficult, though...

In reply to munro90:

I've been using insulated over trousers for the last few years. They are always in my bag when I go skiing or winter climbing now.  The thigh muscles are a big set and can loose a lot of heat so therefore its a no brainer for me.  I use the ME trousers, there quite old now so I have no idea of the model. The Haglofs are lighter and less bulky but the ones my wife has don't have a full zip like the ME ones which is obviously important if you have skis or boots / crampons on. 

I can put them fairly easily on/off at stops, even at belays over the harness.  It looks a bit weird, and there has been some comments, when people see you belaying out of the fly  

I see here in Norway girls have these insulated skirts they use, they look super easy. They just rap them round at stops, no faffing. If they made a kilt variation with handy sporen for a snack I am sure they would be a winner for boys as well. 

 crayefish 24 Oct 2020
In reply to munro90:

I got myself a set of ME Fitzroy pants in the sale a couple of years ago for some high altitude climbing in the Andes.  They were a size too big, but with the braces it wasn't really an issue and they went easily over my normal climbing trousers.

Can't attest to the waterproofness (Andes afterall) but they kept me warm in -40 with windchill.  Overall I was happy with them.

Biggest issue: they don't come in yellow

 Dr.S at work 24 Oct 2020
In reply to Jamie Simpson - Alpine Dragons:

Hi Jamie - sizing question for the ME trousers - looking in my cupboard I’m normally a small for ME, are the trousers sized to go over other layers or do you tend to go a size up?

In reply to Dr.S at work:

Hi,

The label says large, and I use medium.

They fit well over my winter trousers and ski boots although it’s a bit of a stretch over my harness around the waist. Nothing unpleasant.

I should say I bought them some 13 years ago so the model might have changed since then.  

 nufkin 24 Oct 2020
In reply to captain paranoia:

>  Makes walking rather difficult, though...

It'd just be a sleeping bag, surely?

 Frank R. 24 Oct 2020
In reply to Jamie Simpson - Alpine Dragons:

> I see here in Norway girls have these insulated skirts they use, they look super easy. They just rap them round at stops, no faffing. If they made a kilt variation with handy sporen for a snack I am sure they would be a winner for boys as well. 

I see those all the time ski touring, all my skirt-wearing friends love them! I was actually planning on getting a skirt or having a kilt version made to spec this spring. Unfortunately, world had some other ideas. Considered insulated over-pant shorts as well, but these are more faffy to put on.

I have some insulated pants with ~66g/m2, usually too warm for most of my outings now. Great for winter camping though.

 Dr.S at work 24 Oct 2020
In reply to Frank R.:

What would a true Scot wear under a insulated kilt? 

 Frank R. 24 Oct 2020
In reply to Dr.S at work:

Honestly, I have no idea!  

Last time I saw a man-skirt (not a kilt, more of a "hippie" one) was at one grass scything contest and I didn't ask nor look. I guess wearing something under it would be very prudent when scything, you don't want to catch any ticks in some places! Otherwise, for scything, it seemed nice, much better ventilation than pants.

Post edited at 14:32
In reply to munro90:

Unless you're spending considerable time inactive or below -15C I'd just pick up some fleece trousers from Decathlon. I have the Rab Photons, they're nice and warm, and pack into a little stuff sack, but for almost anything UK they're overkill. 

 tingle 25 Oct 2020
In reply to captain paranoia:

Assumed camping meant camping. Very sorry

 Dr.S at work 25 Oct 2020
In reply to Frank R.:

Dont be too sure - my kilts one of the warmest items of lower body wear I own - non-insulated, just stupidly went for the heavy weight tartan.

 Jimbo C 25 Oct 2020
In reply to munro90:

Have you considered wearing thermals under your regular trousers? I find them very effective on cold belays and very cheap. 

 ben b 26 Oct 2020
In reply to munro90:

Mrs B has a tiny lightweight down blanket (made by Terra, I think I got it in Gothenburg a few years ago) with popper closures. It packs down to the size of a tennis ball and makes a rather fetching super warm down skirt which I have been known to wear when no-one I know is around and the weather really cold. They missed a trick not making it in tartan pertex - that would have been a lot easier to explain!

Similarly, there are synthetic shorts out there (Elevenate ones pop up on sport pursuit quite frequently for half price) that could make excellent belay shorts. Full side tips, toasty warm, synthetic, pack down small.

With both the above the limiting factor is basically chutzpah.  

So sod the doubters and unleash your inner skirt wearer!

b

 Tim Davies 27 Oct 2020
In reply to munro90:

Army surplus £20 full side zips good for lunch stops, winter camping , putting on cold children, doesn’t really matter if they get muddy/ ripped etc 

 angry pirate 28 Oct 2020
In reply to Tim Davies:

I like the look of those. What do they weigh? Most issue kit seems to be double the weight of commercial kit to make it squaddie proof.

 Tim Davies 28 Oct 2020
In reply to angry pirate:

Guessing about 400g so not ridiculous 

sizing is v generous. 

 olddirtydoggy 28 Oct 2020
In reply to munro90:

Going back to the OP, for winter camping I use a pair of down over trousers by the Polish company Cumulus that I picked up much cheaper from Rock + Run for around £85. I pair them up with a PH designs hooded down pullover. Used them together last winter 3 times in wildcamps on damp moors and felt so warm. Also dropped the sleeping bag down a season and slept in the down gear as my wife has claimed my winter bag, not sure how that happened. I get your point about damp climate here but I've not had issue when camping.

Has anyone seen the Rab synthetic skirt? I thought it was a bit of a joke but I might be way off. I would have thought it was a bit draughty up there? Never worn a skirt though.

 angry pirate 28 Oct 2020
In reply to Tim Davies:

Thanks for getting back to me  That's pretty decent to be honest. How generous would you say? I'm a 32" waist and large looked okay over layers according to the size chart

 Tim Davies 29 Oct 2020
In reply to angry pirate:

wish I had gone for small, even over existing Layers (32” waist/ medium in normal clothes) 

 angry pirate 29 Oct 2020
In reply to Tim Davies:

Thanks. That's very helpful. I will try to tack a pair down.


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