UKH

Just watched a documentary on bbc4 "poisoning america: the devil we know" and im shocked. Ive never been an ardent eco warrior but do like to think of myself and environmentally concerned. Have i been asleep for many years over the environmental disaster that is gore tex? Or do we collectively turn a blind eye to this issue as we love our gore tex clothing too much?

I agree. Gore tex is too slippy to safely use on the hill. One slip in the wrong place and you’re over a cliff. Cotton ventile actually sticks to the surface especially if frozen, giving you time to arrest yourself. 

Perhaps you could offer us a summary of the documentary to tell why Gore Tex is killing us, I'm not aware of any such claims.

I only go out if the weather’s nice and carry a placcy bag (made from recycled materials) just in case.

Having clicked on the link, it's more a case of "the manufacture of certain kit may have been causing health issues to some people living near the plant".  But the media don't like rational headlines, do they?

There are already many PFC free alternatives. You just need look out for it.

Is that not worse? It seems to me that if I am damaging my own health with goretex, that's my problem, but if people near factories are having health damaged by my choice of clothing, surely that is worse?

I don't like goretex, horrible sweaty stuff. Dunno if chemicals in paramo are as bad, it's not an issue I have been made aware of until now 

Lots of coated things have bad chemicals in them.

Synthetic fibers lose fibers during washing and get into the water, then some in animals, then we eat some of them.

Most cotton production use lots of chemicals and tons of water (bio-cotton helps for the first part). 

Down isn't the best for birds, in bad cases plucked a life, in best cases a by-product of food production. 

That's just clothing; steel and allu production isn't great either. Thats what our hardware is made of. You know what? Just buy less, use what you got, repair when it's broken. You know reduce reuse recycle.

Aside from issues in the manufacturing process and the pfc content of the fabric itself the dwr treatment which wears off the fabric in the rain and through abrasion runs into the land and water courses however the flouro compounds dont actually break down and remain as contaminants for many many years.... the program was saying one droplet in an olympic size pool is above safe limits....these compounds then enter the food chain... this wasnt something i was aware of and i found it very interesting.

Of course, and the more we know about them the better informed our decisions are about buying them.

Indeed, and I use a guppy bag and a cora ball in the washing machine to try and limit this

I have recently become aware of this, so another area to research as to how to be as eco friendly as possible when buying cotton

And I try to get the most ethically sourced down I can

I'm not sure why you think I'm not. I try very hard not to buy unnecessary stuff and where I can I buy second hand. That doesn't change the fact that if manufacturing is harmful to those around then that has to be worse than the product being harmful to the individual user.

Don't know why people disliked your comment about ventile but I know it's true - If I hadn't been wearing ventile as I slid on my back down a neve slope above Red Tarn I don't think I'd have had time to self arrest.  Ignoramuses

Just buy Parama and proof with Nikwax, both of which have been PFC free for the last 25 years. 

My kit has always been trying to kill me.  Without it I'd stay at home, safe and sound

It's certainly worth being aware of, but the headline is unhelpful.

I think it's the DWR treatments that use PFCs, not the Gore-tex. Gore-tex fabrics do use PFC DWR treatments, though (as do many others).

As has been said, Nikwax is not PFC-based.

Probably because they’ve never been in that situation. I took my daughter up Skiddaw Little Man last winter and can still see the look on her face as she sat down for a rest on the neve in her gtex overtousers. Off like a rocket she went. Luckily we were only practicing with the crampons and the run off was kind. I sat down myself and off I went probably at 6 ft/second. Getting the axe to bite was a bitch. I suppose there’s trade offs between light/breathable and fashionable against heavier unfashionable kit that actually works and is safer for certain conditions?

For now but not for much longer. Gore-tex and many others have introduced PFC-free treatments and are phasing it out completely in the coming years. Good news all round.

Plenty of data out there about the different microns of PFC used in DWR coatings (but I can't find the specific document just now). But the good thing is manufacturers are aware and and already quite a few alternatives out there, so it's not all gloom and doom. 

I'd recommend a third crampon strapped to yer backside

I started serious winter hillwalking in the 80s and had no special clothing.  About 1985 we had John Tunnah ex RAF MRT as security chief and a load of us used to go out with the then Lochcarron Mountaineering Club.   There was a lot of talk then, as people were beginning to sport Goretex, about how much speed you could get up downhill with Goretex and I can remember John warning us about it.  Same problem applies to all nylon outer layers of course, as well as the ridiculous (for mountain wear) PVC work suits for construction that Gaynor sold at the time!

I'll leave this here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bs68rr/storyville-poisoning-america...

Surely this is not so much a case of gor-tex as a material being evil (all though I am aware of the wider environmental impacts) more an example of the shocking lack of regulation or environmental protection in the States and corperate greed. 

Just leaving a link to the programme in the OP's original post.