UKH

I'm looking at building my first climbing rack and would appreciate some advice for this.

First of all, I know that the first question you'll have is 'What do you need it for', so let me 'introduce' myself : right now, I'm only climbing indoors. I want to make the transition to climbing outdoors, so I'll be doing a 'Moving out' course at the beginning of June. I'm also looking into joining a mountaineering/climbing club, to hopefully find regular climbing partners. So, for all intents and purposes, I think it's fair to assume that I'm very much a newbie.

Next, I know that the first advice I'll be getting is to wait and gain more experience, see what kit I like and so on, and I agree : I won't be buying everything from the start, but I do want to get some of my own gear right from the beginning for three reasons :

1. I want to get used to my own kit right from the beginning : I find that on courses/with other people, they rarely have the specific kit I want to try or buy, so I'd like to learn, for example, how to place the nuts I'll be buying and how to clip the quickdraws I want to be carrying

2. I want to be considerate to my potential climbing partners : beginners make mistakes so, if I get a nut stuck or if I damage a sling and so on, I'd much rather them be my nuts and my slings instead of that kit they've been using for years and grown fond of. I also don't want to turn up to the crag and expect everything to be handed to me 

3. I think that if I buy my own gear, I'll want to go climbing a lot more, if anything just so I would 'get my money's worth'

Hopefully that makes a bit of sense. 

Now, to the task at hand: I've done a bit of reading on 'beginners trad racks' and I've come up with a list of kit I'd like to be buying in the near future. It won't be all at once, I'll probably start with the wires, nuts, quickdraws and so on to have a base to build on and leave the more 'specialist stuff' like cams for when I've been climbing for a while and know what model and sizes I want. That being said, I've included everything on the list below, because, in my view, that's what I would ideally end up with as my first rack.

When making my choices, I went for what I thought was the best compromise between strength and weight. So, here is the list :

-  Passive protection : 1 set of Wild Country Rocks (1-10), 1 set of DMM Wallnuts (1-11), 1 set of DMM Alloy Offset (7-11), 1 set of Wild Country Rockcentric on Dyneema (3-9)

- Cams : DMM Dragon, sizes 2-5, 1 of each

- Quickdraws : 5 x DMM Phantom 18 cm, 8 x DMM Phantom 25 cm

- Slings : 3 x DMM Nylon 120 cm, 2 x DMM Nylon 60 cm, 1 x DMM Nylon 240 cm

- Wiregate Carabiners : 15 x DMM Phantom

- Screwgate Carabiners : 8 x DMM Sentinel, 1 x DMM Boa, 1 x DMM Ceros (for belaying)

- Nut key : Wild Country Pro Key

I already have a harness and belay plate

A few questions/clarifications :

1. I went for Nylon instead of Dyneema for slings as I've read that Dyneema are not supposed to be knotted, so I think that Nylon would be a bit more versatile

2. Quickdraws : I've read that, for trad, longer lengths (20-25 cm) are recommended as they reduce rope drag. Reading various forums, people seem to find Wild Country Heliums better than DMM Phantoms. But, the maximum length for Heliums is 18 cm. Can you build your own quickdraws (could I be making my own 25 cm quickdraws using Heliums for carabiners)?

3. Also quickdraws : do you need one for tying into Rockcentrics/Dragons or do you use the Dyneema on them to clip into?

4. Wiregates : I've chosen DMM Phantoms as they seem to have the best strength/weight ratio (and 5 grams over 15 wiregates adds up). Are they any good, as I've read a few contradicting comments?

So, to sum up, in the beginning I'll be buying my nuts/rocks, slings, some quickdraws and some carabiners and build from there until I get the entire list above.

My question (and the whole point of this thread) really is : am I missing anything I should be considering and are there better alternatives to what I've chosen (the main factors I'm considering are strength and weight, price is less important)

Thanks for reading if you've made it so far. I hope I haven't bored you too much

In reply to asteclaru:

For starters half the number of rocks. 1-10, plus a few extra of the mid sizes. 

 

In reply to summo:

thanks for your reply. rocks will be the first thing I buy (and add offsets and hexs later on if I need them)

I've chosen to get a set of both Rocks and Wallnuts as I've read that, although very similar, they're different enough to make different placements possible, so I think a set of each would be more versatile than a set and a half of just one variety

In reply to asteclaru:

Your call, your money and you dragging them up every route. I'm only advising you after 30 years of climbing that you don't need the 30+ rocks you've listed there as a beginner. You are going climbing, not training for world's strongest man.

Finally. For the 15 rocks you really need. Split them equally on 2 krabs(one each side of harness), on rounded krabs, the ones with big lips for easier clipping in of ropes are rubbish for wires, you'll lose half your rack as novice in no time.

As they advice is free. Your call. 

In reply to summo:

I really appreciate your advice, even if it doesn't look like it. I think I need to make a clarification : that list I've come up with is just what I 'envisage' that my first full rack will be. I won't be buying everything right from the start.

To start with, I'll be buying a set of Rocks and one of Wallnuts (21 in total) simply because it's more cost effective to buy the entire sets than individual sizes. Whether I'm carrying them all will depend on the routes I'll be doing. 

Can you please give an example of a rounded krab, as I'm not really sure what you mean

In reply to asteclaru:something like this

https://eu.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_GB/climbing-carabiners-quickdraws/o...

You just need to see what works for you. There are whole threads of differing ideas on racking.

I'd buy a few large hexes, cheaper than friends, so not a completely disaster if you get one stuck whilst learning the ropes. 

In reply to asteclaru:

I wrote a blog post on this last year, have a look and see if there's any extra bits of info in there.

https://www.mikenolanmountaineering.co.uk/single-post/2016/08/31/The-perfec...

 

What you have listed is pretty good and versatile though.

• Personally, I don't carry hexes. If I did, I would take Torque Nuts over WC Hexcentrics - the colours are better (they match with nuts + cams) and the extendable sling is more useful. 
• Definitely go for size 1-4 Dragons, instead of 2-5. The #5 is useful, but not as much as the #1, in my experience. Add the number 5 later. 
• The number of quickdraws is odd (I'd got for 14 instead of 13, just to satisfy my OCD!). I would also recommend some extendable draws. 
• Dyneema over Nylon for me. Less bulky and a bit lighter. No need to be concerned about knotting them unless you're jumping off onto them, which wouldn't be advisable anyway, on Dyneema or Nylon!  
• Yes you do can clip directly into the sling on the cam/hex. Sometimes you may add a quickdraw if you need to extend it more than the sling on the gear allows.
• Why so many snapgates? Are they for racking things on? Different colours are useful for this. Nuts on one colour, cams on matching colours etc. 
• Phantoms are brilliant. Worth having a play with them first though, as they are small. I like the reduced bulk and weight though. 
• Way too many screwgates - only need 1x HMS and 3x D-Shaped in addition to your belay device. 

 

Cheers, 

Mike

In reply to asteclaru:

Certainly I was leading for around a year before I used or owned any cams - but the days of them being 'specialist' are long gone. Certainly these days you rarely see people climbing without them.

I like Dragons, and have a set - but they can polarize opinion. Certainly I've had climbing partners who have disliked using them. Might be best to see what camp you fall into before commiting your own cash.

In reply to summo:

Got you. I was thinking of using DMM Phantoms to rack everything, as they are very light, but will have a play with various designs before I make a decision

In reply to asteclaru:

Looking at your profile you are based in London. So I guess you'll probably be doing much of your formative climbing in the Peak District on Gritstone. These climbs are short and you do not need much gear for them.

I'd start of with a set of DMM Wallnuts or Wild Country Rocks. I'd also buy 3 hexes, rather than a full set. I'd get the red, yellow and blue DMM Torque Nut or Wild Country Rockcentric. I wouldn't bother with the small sizes as nuts cover those sizes well. 

I'd rack the nuts of 2 BD Oval Wire Krabs and the hexes each on their own colour coded krab. DMM Spectre 2 is an excellent (and excellent value) choice for this.

I'd wait with cams until you have climbed with a few different models. Personally I'd get BD Camalots, as I'm not a fan of the fiddly slings on the DMMs. I'd rack each of these on a colour coded DMM Spectre 2.

You don't need 13 quickdraws when you are starting out. I also wouldn't go for tiny krabs like DMM Phantoms, as they're fiddly and easy to drop. Full size quickdraws like the DMM Spectre 2 are by far and away the best value option. Starting out I'd get 5 18cm quickdraws and make up 3 alpine or sling draws using skinny 60cm slings.  

I wouldn't buy Nylon Slings these days. Dyneema slings are lighter and stronger, and although they do weaken a bit when knotted, as their original strength is 22kn they are still more than strong enough. I probably would start off with a couple of 120cm slings and one 60cm. Get a DMM Spectre 2 to rack each of them on.

N/A

That is way too many screwgates! Are you climbing El Cap? I'd get 3 Petzl Attaches. I'd also learn to a figure of eight on the bite hitch. 

I would get a BD Nuttool and rack it on a cheap, light krab like a Ocun Kestrel. That means you've got a spare krab if you ever run out. I'd also get a couple of extra krabs. One to keep 2 prussik loops on and another 2 for clipping your trainers to the back of your harness with. 

Cool. Have you got helmet? Get a light one and wear it.

Total Rack

DMM Wallnuts 1-11 Plus 2 BD Oval Krabs

DMM Torque Nuts #2, #3 and #4. Plus a Red, Gold and Blue DMM Spectre 2.

5 DMM Spectre 2 18cm Quickdraws. Plus 6 silver DMM Spectre 2 Krabs and 3 60cm Mammut 8mm Contact Slings to make up sling draws.

2 120cm DMM 11mm Dyneema Slings and 1 Mammut 8mm Contact Sling. 3 Silver DMM Spectre 2 Krabs

4 Petzl Attache Screwgate Krabs

BD Nut tool and 3 Ocun Krestrel Krabs.

A good helmet that fits your head.

Also you've not mentioned a rope. I'd start out with a single rope 50m long and around 9.5mm in width. 

All of this gear can be purchased from a specialist climbing shop. I recommend Needle Sports in Keswick, who offer excellent advice and also have a good website. 

Hope this helps. 

 

In reply to Mike Nolan:

Thanks for the advice.

- I thought that, if I did buy a set of large hexes, then they would pretty much cover the same range as a small cam (such as a number 1 Dragon) so a number 5 would be more useful because I wouldn't have anything to cover that range otherwise. It's not set in stone though, this is the whole point of this thread - to see how I can refine my choice

- My thinking was that eventually I would need 5 snapgates for racking alone (2 for each set of nuts and 1 for the Offsets), 6 for the Rockcentrics if I don't need quickdraws (one for each) and 4 for the cams if I don't need quickdraws (again, one for each)

- Screwgates - don't really know how I got to that number : I thought I'd need 3 for my anchor and a few spares. Will read more into it

In reply to asteclaru:

Hi, my two cents: As above just buy a set of nuts and then half a set in the mid sizes.  I would start by learning nuts and hexes and then add cams to your rack later. I think it's really important beginners get a solid grasp of passive pro before going to cams, others may disagree.  For me phantoms are slightly too small and if you offered me them or spectres at the same price, I'd still choose spectres. Other hands may differ.  I like sentinel krabs, but just get 3 not 8.  Fine to buy 13x quickdraws (although I think you'd get by with a few less) but you definitely don't need 15x phantom wiregates as well.  (one per hex/cam is fine). Get dedicated racking carabiners for your nuts, my preference is the Black Diamond oval wire (linked by someone else in this post). Enjoy

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I definitely won't be buying any cams right from the start, both because they're quite expensive to 'just give them a try' (and I want to play with a few different models before I decide on which to get) and because I want to learn how to properly use passive protection first.

I've already got helmets (Grivel Stealth for summer a BD Half Dome because it's larger and fits over a hat)

Don't have a rope so will need to buy that too - are double ropes necessary or will a single rope be suitable?

In reply to maxsmith:

Thanks for the advice.

I didn't know that oval carabiners are better for racking. Will definitely keep this in mind

In reply to asteclaru:

Single rope to start with, once you have mastered that you can move on to double ropes.  Ovals are much better for racking nuts, your choice whether to have a wire or solid gate.

In reply to asteclaru:

I usually carry 3. Two for my belay device (I almost always use a direct belay in guide mode) and one large one (eg DMM Boa) for tying the ropes off at my harness. On multi-pitch routes I usually have another one for prussic, micro-traxion etc.

Thing is, so much of this stuff is personal preference. The trick is discovering what your preferences are without actually spending any money.

 

In reply to asteclaru:

Wild Country Superlight offset rocks make for a great second set set of nuts, as do DMM offsets. Choose whichever brand is different from your main set. 

 

To add to TRip's advice the Torque nuts are good, but don't omit the number 1 (green) It would more cost effective to buy the 4 set anyway. Tip: always carry hex's on limestone. 

In reply to asteclaru:

https://dmmclimbing.com/Products/Carabiners/Oval-Plain-Gate - I use these carabiners for racking my wires on. Most wiregate versions have a nose (a recess for the gate to sit in) but it also means wires drop in the recess and hold the gate open. Can be an easy way to lose kit. So the DMM have a smooth nose so you dont get that snagging. The other advantage of oval biners generally is that the gear sits over a larger area. If you use normal D shaped carabiners the wires often stack on top of each other and it can be fiddly to get the one you want. Obviously it's not the end of the world but when you're pumped and desperately trying to get a wire it can make all the difference! 

The rock type you will be climbing on most should shape your rack. Limestone vs gritstone have very different requirements. 

 

I also wouldn't worry about weight at all. Smaller carabiners weigh less but can be incredibly fiddly. You're not going to fail on a hard severe route because you have 21g carabiners instead of 17g carabiners. The weight is totally negligible. 

 

I would say a good approach is the typically British approach - slow and heavy. Maybe start carrying a little too much kit. But by regularly climbing you'll come to know what you are placing and what you arn't. I did this and after a while I realised I still had my hexes at the top of every route so I stopped bringing them etc 

In reply to asteclaru:

This sounds like WAY too many wires to me. You'd probably get by on most shortish (grit) routes with one standard set. Maybe add a set of offsets if you want extras. Personally I'd go with a set of DMM wallnuts and then add WC superlight offsets if you want extras.

Also, controversial, but I hate ovals for keeping nuts on. I use two normal solidgates with really pronounced hooks on the noses, which have a tendency to catch all the wires you're about to drop down the crag

 

In reply to asteclaru:

Nice thread.

Looks like you’ve done your homework!

1 set of DMM nuts with offsets would be more than sufficient to start off with.

Dont bother with all those snapgates,

just a couple of DMM Ultra-O snapgates for your wires/and one for your hexes.

Definitely Spectre 2s for quickdraws, they are brilliant, cheaper, and easier than the Phantoms.

1 Boa + 3 Sentinels (+your belay biner) is enough.

Dyneema is fine, nylon can get annoyingly thick.

In reply to JRJones:

 

BD Ovals for me, best of both worlds. I can think of a couple of occasions where the hook has saved the day. 

 

In reply to asteclaru:

Thanks everyone for chipping in so far. Please keep the advice coming

On the back of this thread, I've decided that my first purchase will be:

- set of Wild Country Rocks (1-10)

- set of DMM Alloy Offsets (7-11)

- 3 BD Ovals to rack all the wires 

- 1 DMM Boa and 1 DMM Sentinel (I've already got 2 Sentinels)

- a few slings (I already have one 120 cm Dyneema, so I'm thinking another 2 x 120 cm and 1 x 60 cm)

I'm also going to a store this evening to have a play with both the Spectre 2 and Phantom Quickdraws, see which ones I like better, but I'm inclined to go for Spectres instead of Phantoms as they're a bit cheaper and the larger carabiners would be easier to handle as a beginner

In reply to Dell:

I've only used the ovals a few times, but as I remember the problem I had was that they kept turning upside down on my harness, which is more faff than just dealing with the wires bunching together at the bottom of a normal crab. The oval has now been relegated to holding prussics 

In reply to asteclaru:

The only thing I would add to this would be some wires size 1 to 3. The DMM offsets will mean you have effectively a double set of wires from size 4+. But only a single set from 1 to 3.

In reply to asteclaru:

Make sure you're first purchase includes a nut key - it will pay for itself many times over! Personally, the best nut key I have ever owned is the Wild Country pro version on a leash. The leash means there's a lot less faff. http://www.wildcountry.com/en/pro-key-with-leash/ 

In reply to Mark Kemball:

Forgot to mention the nut key, but was going to buy one anyway.

Was thinking of the WC Pro myself, but didn't know they had a leash option. Will look at getting that one

In reply to asteclaru:

Wires: Generally I prefer the shape of Wallnuts for seating, and WC Rocks for cleaning (so make of that what you will!). I'd suggest a set of the cheaper Classic Rocks which are marginally heavier than the newer ones, but in reality not to a noticeable degree, and at less than £50 for a set they're good value. DMM Alloy Offsets are great and on some routes I'll carry doubles in certain sizes. I'm not a fan of the slung hexes, preferring the wired BD ones, but if you're looking for everything then you can get a full rack of 1-11 Wallnuts, 7-11 Offsets and 1-4 Torque nuts as a set for a great price which would be worth looking at.

Draws: How many you get will depend on what length of routes you're doing and what your partners have (generally you'll split gear). But it's usually cheapest to get them in multiples of 5 as that's what the sets usually come in (other than BD, who sell sets of 6). Get a mixture of lengths. Spectres are great, and although I haven't seen them mentioned elsewhere in this thread, so are WC Wild Wires, particularly the newer and lighter ones. But get the ones you most like the feel of. Spectre2's are actually lighter than the full size Alpha's so you're not buying cheap and heavy rubbish with them. I actually prefer the feel of WC Heliums in my hand to the Alpha's, despite most of my rack being made of the DMM's. Clean nose biners are definitely nicer to handle but they're not the be all. If you get some 60cm slings you can also convert a few to alpine draws which gives you some flexibility to reduce drag on meandering routes, particularly if you're just starting out with a single.

Cams: definitely try before you buy. And as a third option to the Dragon/Camelot suggestions, the new Wild Country Friends would potentially offer the best of both worlds with an extendable but less faffy sling than on the Dragons. Having both Dragon and Camelots I've found myself really on the fence but tend to use the Dragons in summer when the extendable draws are easier to use without gloves, and the Camelots in winter when you're less likely to use them. Each to their own though, and you'll not go wrong with any of them.

As a final point, if you're looking at buying a load of stuff in one go then I'd definitely suggest giving Dick's in Bristol a shout - they did a really good deal for me last year when I was replacing a load of stuff.

 

Firstly, a note of caution. Trad climbing is a world of difference to indoor climbing, and you should not be considering leading outside until you have seconded lots of routes with a experienced leader.

No leader will mind that you occasionally leave their gear behind. It is an accepted risk and as likely to be the leaders fault in 'inconsiderately' ramming home the gear as to be your falut. It is polite to offer a replacement and the leader will be best served by replacing the gear that was left behind, rather than taking it out of you rack.

The time to buy gear is when you lead yourself, and that is months if not years away.

So your inital goal should be to equip yourself to second. Buy only the following

1. Helmet

2. 3x120cm slings

3. 3xScrewgate

4. 1x60m half rope.

5. comfortable rock shoes.

6. Pertex windproof.

It may be that the leader cannot supply everything else needed, but your club should have a supply of shared trad gear and you can avail yourself of that with a small amount of organisation.

And its also worth bearing in mind that many people do not successfully make the transition (and I'm not identifying you with that) but there is often complete racks for sale second hand. I know there are plenty of people who would argue that you shouldn't use gear of unknown provenance but thats what we all do when we climb with someone else's rack. We'd all fall more often if we took two racks up every route.

I'm sure that you will enjoy your trad climbing, but don't rush it.

Matt

In reply to mutt:

Seriously? That sounds way overcautious. I'd maybe seconded half a dozen pitches before I led my first route.

In reply to mutt:

I think you're being way too conservative in suggesting a long apprenticeship as a second before leading. Personally, I led my first route less than 2 months after starting to climb and my first VS within 3 months. The OP is planning to do a "moving outside" course - leading after this ought to be fine, with care.

In reply to asteclaru:

Just a quick bit of advice - if you do most of your early leading on grit (or granite to a lesser extent), cams are a Godsend. They're often the difference between a route being safe as houses with bomber gear and a route being scary, run-out, dangerous or unpleasant. A university club I climb with insist on people not using cams on their first leads (despite cams being available on the club racks), and I think it's downright stupid if their first lead happens to be a grit crack, for example.

Half ropes aren't necessary, no. Sometimes it means you have to give some extra thought to rope drag and extending gear, but they're skills that you'll need to develop regardless. As a beginner it's probably six and two threes between having a rope drag nightmare or a criss-crossed half rope spaghetti nightmare.

In reply to asteclaru:

Lots of good advice upthread and not very much I'd disagree with so but it's always been one of my pet subjects...

Two full sets of wires is a lot for gritstone but not at all too much for lots of limestone venues or mountain crags. If you expect or hope to go to N Wales, Avon, the Lakes or Scotland your original plan of a set each of DMM will stand you in good stead. I did exactly that in 1994 and am still using many of the same wires now.

Some people (maybe one) mentioned that two sets of nuts is just extra weight - which leads me to my greatest pearl of wisdom on lead racks: Buy everything you will need for all the venues you'll climb at. Do NOT carry all that kit to or up each venue! I know this sounds obvious but we're all tempted to take all our toys out with us just in case.  I take two full sets of cams almost everywhere because I can't decide which I like best. If you're a ellow sufferer at least leave it in the sack if it doesn't look likely you'll need it. Owning two sets of nuts is far from daft, carrying both up a 6m climb at Burbage probably is

I'm with TRip on screwgates, more or less. (I actually have climbed El Cap with about the number you originally suggested. ) On Grit I usually carry two extra DMM Phantoms on top of my belay krab. If I need any more than that I use spare quickdraws, or if I've somehow used all them as well then I'd use my racking krabs if needed.

You don't need all that many slings. Many people may shout me down on this but I almost never carry more than two slings, on single pitch climbs I only carry one (with the two phantoms on it). I would recommend only 1 x 120cm and 1 x 240cm. If you need more than that, use the 20-odd metres of spare rope you almost certainly have beside you on a UK crag.

There's an exception to the sling advice if you expect to be block-leading. That's a single leader leading all the pitches on a multi-pitch climb. It makes using the rope in the belay is <b>much</b> less convenient so you'll likely want more slings.

Those 60cm slings I dropped out of the selection, put them back in as slingdraws. I suspect you've already come across the term but if not look it up and get a couple. Even on single pitch grit they can be very useful.

In reply to asteclaru:

Since everyone is piling in, here's my tuppence.  In order:

Helmet

Thermos flask

Harness

Belay device and large screwgate

Nut key and krab

Rock boots

8' sling

4' sling

Cake

Extra screwgate and couple of spare snapgates

Half a dozen longish extenders or alpine draws

Wires 1-7

Hexes 6-9 on rope

Couple of spare krabs

Rocks 8+ on cord

Another few extenders

Cams 1-2-3

Guidebook to local/favourite area

Chalk bag

Cams 0.5-1.5-2.5

Prussic loops

A rope

Guidebook bag

Lucky charm

Belay sling

Clip stick

l

l

l

V

One of those new fangled retrievable abseil jobbies

Pad

l

l

l

V

Beanie

In reply to asteclaru:

That sounds a pretty good place to start to me. Have you considered a starter pack from somewhere like Dicks Climbing? You get value for money with one.

https://www.dicksclimbing.com/collections/protection/products/dmm-protectio...

Oh and get yourself a short piece of rope/string and get the basic knots under your belt. You'll get more out of your course if you can focus on learning the application of the knots rather than how to tie them. 

In reply to asteclaru:

10 x short and cheap quickdraw (Decathon sells cheap ones), 70m 9.5 to 10mm rope (again Decathlon sells cheap ones) and that big Ikea bag (for the rope, whilst on the crag, also makes packin' it easier).

Then use the excess money on car rentals and plane tickets to Spain/Italy for nice casual sport climbing fun...

In reply to mutt:

Myself and an equally incompentent friend chipped in to buy a book on trad climbing. Bought some gear and went trad climbing. Did that mean we used two singles as doubles, had so much rope drag we had to create a hanging belay mid pitch and took 3 hours to climb a single pitch .. Yeah. We made loads of mistakes, but none were dangerous. (Just breathtakingly inefficent) 

But i also look back on that time really fondly, climbing ever since has been trying to recapture some of those monents. 

The OP sounds psyched. Second a few routes and then start leading easy. Ideally have a few experienced friends to start shouting when you're doing it wrong  

In reply to Mark Kemball:

This is the course I'm doing:

http://www.pyb.co.uk/courses-detail.php?coursecode=RCC07&irisref=239

Although not a Leading course, the description does suggest that we'd at least be looking at different types of protection, how to place it and so on. I know that I don't need my own rack for this, but, as I said in the OP, I like having my own gear and learning using my own kit. If I end up not using it for a while afterwards, it's not the end of the world.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Already doing this : bought myself 3 meters of rope and I'm learning the knots in the MT Rock climbing book

 

In reply to Kemics:

This is exactly what I plan on doing, start easy and build from there

In reply to asteclaru:

These articles may be useful:

 

http://www.mountain-training.org/associations/ami/news-and-blog/building-a-...

 

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/on-the-rack

 

https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/skills/buying_a_rack_of_climbing_gear-8...

 

   As a general rule of thumb many new climbers spend a year or two building an enormous collection of gear, and then spend the rest of their climbing years reducing the amount they carry to a minimum. 

 

 

 

In reply to asteclaru:

Whereabouts in London are you? 

In reply to Dell:

Queensbury, which is North West-ish

I live 15 minutes walk from the Arch North, but usually go to The Session @ The Castle

In reply to asteclaru:

Hey Asteclaru

I live Kilburn/Brondesbury area. Built my first rack last year and climbed with it in Skye, Lakes, Peaks, and Dartmoor. It's all DMM - walnuts, torques, 4cu cams, phantoms, etc 

If want to pop round and take a look at some bits, or grab a beer at the North London Tavern and chat about what works and what I'd change then just drop me an email

Exciting times ahead bro! 

Jonny

In reply to jonny.greenwood:

That sounds great! I'll be in touch

In reply to asteclaru:

It all depends on what you'll be climbing, as a 10m grit route requires a very different rack to 30m limestone cracks or a 100m Lakes route.... 

Also, unless you're loaded, it also depends on what deals are on...

Since cams are the easiest pro to screw up, some recommend a "nut-based apprenticeship" - i.e. nuts and hexes, forgetting cams.

And DMM wallnuts are just better than WC Rocks.

If you're doing anything wandering, consider cannibalising half your QDs and putting the carabiners on 60cm slings instead, to make sling draws.

Finally: when you start out, you only need the gear your partner doesn't have.

 

In reply to asteclaru:

Less nuts and get some hexes - useful for winter but also for belays at places like stanage (which you'll likely end up visiting a lot)

Make some alpine quickdraws from slings and krabs - very practical as can be used as short ones if needed but give you the option of extending (particularly if you will use double ropes)

Few lengths of cord, a knife and make 2x prusik loops

Either the edelrid aramid or mammut magic sling are good "non-tape" sling options for use to extend an abseil - the aramid is also versatile as a runner as the stiffness makes it easier to loop around a block

 

Right, I've been doing a bit of shopping these last 2 days, so I now have the following :

- belay plate and carabiner (BD ATC XP/DMM Ceros)

- 3 screwgates (DMM Sentinel)

- 4 snapgates (DMM Spectre 2)

- 3 Dyneema slings (2x120, 1x60)

- set of Wild Country Rocks (1-10)

- nut key (Wild Country Pro)

- 12 quickdraws (DMM Spectre 2, 6x18 and 6x25)

Was unsure about whether I should buy quickdraws right now/how many but then I found the Spectre 2 5 set for £45 on Alpinetrek so bought a set of each 18 and 25 centimetres. Even if some of them get butchered to make slingdraws, it still works out cheaper than buying the carabiners separately

All I really have left to buy is rope, DMM Offsets, couple of oval carabiners to rack the nuts, prusik loops and a HMS krab

I think that should get me started nicely

Thanks again for your help and advice

In reply to asteclaru:

 

I'd delay buying the offsets and buy the Torque nuts, this gives you a wider range and will allow you to protect larger cracks. 

The ovals aren't a necessity right now, you could just use the Spectres for racking. 2 krabs, split the rocks into odds and evens, so if you drop a set you aren't just left with all big or all small.   

Prusik info (See description) https://www.needlesports.com/1496/products/prusik-loop-cord.aspx

No need for a HMS karabiner, the sentinels are large enough to take a couple of knots, and you have more than enough. If you are ever short on locking karabiners, use two of the spectres, placed with opposing gates.  

In reply to asteclaru:

I'd agree to the above, torque nuts over offsets.
Spectre 2s are fine for racking nuts, but I'd rack them big and small, rather than odd and even (something like 1-5, 6-10), and then don't drop them

In reply to asteclaru:

Has anyone mentioned a pair of Black Diamond Vipers and a pair of Petzl Lynx crampons yet? It'll only be a matter of time.