/ Easter Scotland Sleeping bag

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Barrya 05 Jan 2020

Hi there, 

I'm up in Scotland at Easter with my daughter and we'll be doing some wild camping as part of a Scouts trip in the Loch Lomand area.

I am looking for recommendations on light weight (will be carried) down sleeping bags please. I currently use an Alpkit 3 season bag (Skyhigh 600) which is brilliant but I am wondering if that will be warm enough so I may swap it out for something a bit beefier or add a liner to boost the rating. I also need to buy something new for my daughter so would be grateful for any thoughts on season ratings for Easter and makes/models to look at.

thanks

Barry

ogreville 05 Jan 2020
In reply to Barrya:

Rab Ascent 700?

Although, scotland at Easter could be shorts and t-shirt weather or snowing with sub-zero nights. It’s a lottery these days. 
 

Id wait till closer to the time before deciding based on weather
 

Andypeak 05 Jan 2020
In reply to Barrya:

I can't see you needing anything warmer than the alpkit bags you've got. 

Le Sapeur 05 Jan 2020
In reply to Barrya:

The Alpkit bag you have should be fine. Value for money there's not much to beat them.

Don't bother with linings, just wear clothes. 

Dave the Rave 05 Jan 2020
In reply to Le Sapeur:

> The Alpkit bag you have should be fine. Value for money there's not much to beat them.

> Don't bother with linings, just wear clothes. 

That’s open to debate. It takes longer to get warm in a bag if you’re heat isn’t allowing the bags insulation to trap warm air. Naked or just with a t shirt and shorts and you warm up much quicker.

1
Le Sapeur 05 Jan 2020
In reply to Dave the Rave:

That's assuming you are cold in the first place. Lets assume the op is warm. Then clothes are fine.

Dave the Rave 05 Jan 2020
In reply to Le Sapeur:

> That's assuming you are cold in the first place. Lets assume the op is warm. Then clothes are fine.

What? Until he gets cold in the middle of the night as his bag has little heat in it? 

2
r0x0r.wolfo 05 Jan 2020
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> What? Until he gets cold in the middle of the night as his bag has little heat in it? 

So less insulation is better? Not sure if I understand that. 

Dave the Rave 05 Jan 2020
In reply to r0x0r.wolfo:

> So less insulation is better? Not sure if I understand that. 

It’s not less insulation really. A thin, loose fitting, breathable layer of underwear is fine. This will allow heat to escape to the filling and trap warm air.

What is counter productive is several     Layers of material/clothing that prevent the bags filling from having its full effect.


This clothing may also cause the person to sweat in the night which will also reduce warmth.

Try it. Get into your bag with just under layers and after having food and or a warm drink. 
 

I would suggest that you’re better using your clothing as insulation outside and underneath your bag rather than wearing it. 

3
DaveHK 06 Jan 2020
In reply to Dave the Rave:

That's the theory but in practice I find more clothes on in bag = warmer me. 

jimtitt 06 Jan 2020
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> It’s not less insulation really. A thin, loose fitting, breathable layer of underwear is fine. This will allow heat to escape to the filling and trap warm air.

> What is counter productive is several     Layers of material/clothing that prevent the bags filling from having its full effect.

Some "interesting" physics there

Le Sapeur 06 Jan 2020
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> It’s not less insulation really. A thin, loose fitting, breathable layer of underwear is fine. This will allow heat to escape to the filling and trap warm air.

So if I go out for a walk today wearing my duvet jacket I will be warmer if I'm just wearing thin underwear rather than a thick shirt and fleece?

DaveHK 06 Jan 2020
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> I would suggest that you’re better using your clothing as insulation outside and underneath your bag rather than wearing it. 

Surely if you put the clothes outside your bag the bag is stopping the clothes from 'having their full effect' and you'd be better off without the bag?  

Dave the Rave 06 Jan 2020
In reply to Le Sapeur:

But you are moving so generating more heat.

r0x0r.wolfo 06 Jan 2020
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> But you are moving so generating more heat.

Ok, how about if he just stands there?

StevieH 06 Jan 2020
In reply to Barrya:

This old debate... I stand firmly in the camp of layering up with a wicking layer next to my skin. Beware you don’t want to start heavily sweating inside your bag as that will eventually make you wake up cold.

However there are a couple of extra things to think about.

The first is how well are you insulated from the ground especially if it’s snowy or frozen.I always used to put a foam mat under my air mattress in winter which seems to work well. However now I use an insulated air mat. Don’t skimp on your mat!

The last one is try and get into your sleeping bag already warm not freezing cold from sitting outside cooking as your bag is retaining heat. It’s not an external heat source like a radiator. Nalgene bottles full of hot water make good hot water bottles.

1
Dave the Rave 06 Jan 2020
In reply to r0x0r.wolfo:

> Ok, how about if he just stands there?

Tricky one that. Since warm air rises, as you probably know, it’s not the same scenario as being in a sleeping bag lying flat. Heat and moisture could escape at the neck .

r0x0r.wolfo 07 Jan 2020
In reply to Dave the Rave:

So he would be warmer without the fleece then?

Dave the Rave 07 Jan 2020
In reply to r0x0r.wolfo:

> So he would be warmer without the fleece then?

Potentially initially.

But it’s a different scenario. He is vertical and in the elements in your scenario, a bit different from sheltered and horizontal in a tent. 

Barrya 09 Jan 2020
In reply to Barrya:

thanks all for the replies and entertaining discussion, Useful advice on bags for that scenario. I'll be taking 3 season aplkit down bags then and if we get cold we'll sleep extra clothes on. Cheers!

cpowell 10 Jan 2020
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> This will allow heat to escape to the filling and trap warm air.

Respectfully, when it comes to insulation, you want the the heat to not escape.  To start with, the bag will be cooler with clothes on than when next to bare skin but that is because the clothes are insulating the bag from you. This may be affect you feel.

In the steady state (when you have been in the bag for a while) the heat power loss will be the same as the heat power you generate, clothes or no clothes. But assuming the clothes are acting as effective insulation (they are not wet) you will have a larger thermal gradient between you and the outside of the bag, meaning you are warmer.

> This clothing may also cause the person to sweat in the night which will also reduce warmth.

Surely this is contradicting the point above, why would they sweat more if the bag is not working as effectively and so keeping you cooler?

Andy Johnson 10 Jan 2020
In reply to Barrya:

I find liners a big faff: they end-up getting twisted around me. I just put a hat and socks on if i'm cold, and maybe a thin fleece top if i'm not warming up. I tend to sleep in a base layer in the winter and thats generally enough.

Also, don't neglect whats between you your bag and the ground. For summer I use a NeoAir and in winter I add a closed-cell foam mat ("carrimat") which works for me even in the snow. Your milage may vary of course.

A young/small child might need more insulation. Only experience is going to tell you in the end.

Post edited at 12:28

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