Down quilts

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 wjcdean 05 Mar 2021

Just wondered if anyone on here uses one and likes it? They seem to be super popular with the American through hikers/backpackers, but they tend to have much more stable weather than here.

It's tempting a tempting purchase or save a reasonable amount of weight, but I wonder if I'd just end up getting a good quality down bag after a few trips.

Cheers, Will

 Herdwickmatt 05 Mar 2021
In reply to wjcdean:

What happens when you slide off your thermarest? I think I'd just end up sprawled on the floor on my tent virtually uncovered and shivering. But then I move alot in my sleep. 

 PaulJepson 05 Mar 2021
In reply to wjcdean:

I really like them as a system. You're right that they're not as good in the UK but that's more because they're generally down and camping in the UK is often a soggy affair. If you're happy with using down then they're great for lightweight backpacking. 

I have an Enlightened Equipment Revelation that I bought for the AT in 2016 and have used on/off in the UK since. Pair it with a Thermarest Xlite. It has straps that go around your sleeping pad and, combined with an enclosed footbox, keep you cocooned. I've never 'slid off' my mat. 

Used it down to about -18c, though I did keep my lightweight down jacket on that night also. Slept through warm and cosy. 

They save you quite a bit of weight and feel a lot less constrictive than regular mummy bags. 

Never felt a draft, as the straps make it overlap your mat. 

 tehmarks 05 Mar 2021
In reply to wjcdean:

I use one - a Nunatak Arc Lite, specifically (no longer made, but was a cheaper no-frills version of the Arc but with the same performance). I've used it everywhere in the UK outside of winter (save for a couple of bothy trips), and in the Alps in summer, and it's been very good. It has an enclosed footbox and a clever system for strapping it to your mat (which I never bother with, to be honest), which makes it not all that much different to a sleeping bag in terms of letting air in, just without the redundant compressed insulation that you lie on.

I'm a massive fan. It's more comfortable in warmer weather, it's just as warm in cold weather, and it's stupidly light. What's not to like?

 tomsan91 05 Mar 2021
In reply to wjcdean:

Switched from a bag to a quilt a couple of years ago, went with one from hammock gear in the US which was reasonably priced and has a good reputation over there. I only go out spring to autumn and it has been great for me and performs much better than my heavy synthetic bag obviously but without the price tag of a good quality down bag. 

 DaveHK 05 Mar 2021
In reply to wjcdean:

I'ver got a couple and really like them. A pretty hefty weight saving and I have no issues with them falling off or cold spots.

In reply to wjcdean:

There was a flurry of activity a few years back when Costco were knocking out lightweight down quilts for £20. Here's one thread on the topic of conversion:

https://www.trek-lite.com/index.php?threads/so-what-do-you-have-planned-for...

OP wjcdean 05 Mar 2021

Crikey, that was quick, thanks for the responses everyone; and that's much more of a consensus than I was expecting.

I've got the answer I want so should probably delete this thread now before the anti-quilt brigade jump in and try and tell me what I don't want to hear. I've never really been convinced that my down bag provides any insulation whatsoever from the underside.

Im already on the xlite bandwagon and fall off it regularly... however that is due to my inability to literally ever pick a flat spot.

Cheers all!

 tehmarks 05 Mar 2021
In reply to wjcdean:

> I've never really been convinced that my down bag provides any insulation whatsoever from the underside.

It will always be warmer, for a given weight, to disappear the insulation from the underside of your sleeping bag and 'transfer' the weight saved to a warmer mat. Down is going to do the best part of naff all if you're lying on it, no matter how 'ultralight' you yourself may or may not be!

 MonkeyPuzzle 05 Mar 2021
In reply to wjcdean:

I'm on a slightly different tip - looking for a cheap primaloft quilt to use with my 2 and 3 season down bags to see if it moves the dewpoint out of the down when bivvying in the UK in not perfectly dry conditions.

When my down bags cark it, I'll be looking at replacing with a quilt.

 nufkin 05 Mar 2021
In reply to wjcdean:

I got a PHD one a couple of years ago when they introduced them to their range and I've yet to not feel a little giddy thrill of excitement when getting underneath it

 JimbotheScot 05 Mar 2021

quilts are the future I couldn't go back to mummy bags having to sleep like Vlad the impaler, made a synthetic apex one for warmer months and use it ontop of my down quilt when its colder

J1234 05 Mar 2021
In reply to wjcdean:

If you are looking for some slightly different takes on sleeping design check these out https://www.seatosummit.co.uk/products/sleeping-bags/ I do not like Mummy bags, but do need a lightweight bag, I looked at the quilts, but have decided against.

 arjh 05 Mar 2021
In reply to wjcdean:

I have just taken delivery of a Rab Neutrino 200 and am looking forward to using it this summer.  The main benefit for me will be the lack of restriction, I hate being cocooned.

 random_watcher 06 Mar 2021
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

Here are a couple of options for a synthetic over quilt, not sure if you'd consider them cheap or not.

https://valleyandpeak.co.uk/brands/valley-and-peak/sleeping/insulated-over-...

https://liteway.equipment/quilts

The second link is based in Ukraine so probably involves import costs.

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 Frank R. 06 Mar 2021
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> I'm on a slightly different tip - looking for a cheap primaloft quilt to use with my 2 and 3 season down bags to see if it moves the dewpoint out of the down when bivvying in the UK in not perfectly dry conditions.

I'd have a look at Apex Climashield - people make overbags and overquilts out of it for the reasons you want and it's easier to work with (no baffles needed). Quite cheap on extremtextil.de by meter and I am sure people make them to measure as well.

 Root1 06 Mar 2021
In reply to wjcdean:

I ordered a quilt but returned it. One of the arguments is that because there's nothing between you and your mat all the downs on top so it's lighter than a sleeping bag. 

In reality that's not true. If you look at the dimensions in specifications the width of most quilts is the same as the circumference of many sleeping bags, and often it's more.

In addition if your sleeping bag has a full length zip it can be used as a quilt anyway. I have being doing so for decades. Granted a bag has a hood so not quite as good as a quilt but when used as a bag this makes it far warmer than a quilt.

2
 Root1 06 Mar 2021
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> I'm on a slightly different tip - looking for a cheap primaloft quilt to use with my 2 and 3 season down bags to see if it moves the dewpoint out of the down when bivvying in the UK in not perfectly dry conditions.

> When my down bags cark it, I'll be looking at replacing with a quilt.

Have a look at valleyandpeak they make synthetic quilts to your specification. Ideal for protecting a down bag from dew point issues.

 Run_Ross_Run 07 Mar 2021
In reply to wjcdean:

Have just moved to quilt from a full on sleeping bag for spring/summer. Upgraded my sleeping mat at the time as that seems to be the consensus with using a quilt it seems (having a decent r value mat). 

Went from rab quantum 250 with alpkit cloudbase to a thermarest Vesper 0C with exped synmat hl m. 

Managed to shave about 300gms off the combined weight.

Yet to use it in anger but initial thoughts are good. The enclosed footbox and straps to hold the bag around the mat seem to work well. 

 MonkeyPuzzle 07 Mar 2021
In reply to Root1:

Thanks to you and the others for the tips!

 JIMBO 07 Mar 2021
In reply to JimbotheScot:

I find mummy bags annoying to sleep in too... I find I sleep better in the recovery position so I bought an extra wide PHD bag so I can spread out more... interested to try out if a quilt is as good...

OP wjcdean 08 Mar 2021
In reply to Root1:

Having done a lot of internetting in the last few days I came to a similar conclusion. I had assumed that the circumference would be less on the quilt, but actually it seems to be identical and really it's just a bag without a zip or hood. And actually of you look at high end kit, the weights are very similar. I do love to gram-weenie, but a 50g difference between a bag and a quilt is not a deal breaker for me

 galpinos 08 Mar 2021
In reply to wjcdean:

There are quilts and "quilts". I have a lovely floaty down quilt that is literally just that, a bit rectangle of down and pertex. It's great for van-ing and car camping but is so light any rolling/movement seems to lift if off and you can get a draught. Not great when it's chilly. It's main function seems to be additional warmth for my two girls or wrapped round my wife when set outside. I rarely get to use it and find that it's biggest downside, it's very popular with the rest if the family.

I also have a top bag, deigned for mountain marathons, which is what most people call quilts nowadays. This is excellent, but it is a top bag with a hood so super snuggly without the lost down under my back. Was originally designed for using with a balloonbed but I am modifying it to fit an uberlite 3/4 instead.

 Dave Cundy 08 Mar 2021
In reply to wjcdean:

I jumped on the quilt bandwagon three years ago and haven't regretted it.  Having made 5 quilts of various shapes, i reckon that they are 20% lighter than a bag.

If you make one too narrow, you get cold draughts every time you turn over.  Too wide and you stay nice and warm but you've thrown away the weight saving.

Keeping the draughts out is critical.  Straps were much less effective than using a single nylon skin going under the mat.  It keeps the draughts out while still allowing you to use a narrower and lighter quilt.

Overall, I found that the real upsides were more space/comfort and never sliding off the mat (i have an Xlite) because the mat it attached to your quilt.

Post edited at 10:06
 Frank R. 08 Mar 2021
In reply to Dave Cundy:

> Keeping the draughts out is critical.  Straps were much less effective than using a single nylon skin going under the mat.  It keeps the draughts out while still allowing you to use a narrower and lighter quilt.

Isn't that still a sleeping bag, only with the bottom insulation removed?

But it sounds nice, seems similar to how some arctic bags are constructed, a nylon pocket for your mats on the bottom - wish there were more of these even in normal winter bag range.

What do you think about baffle types? I was quite surprised that many US makers use just the simplest and coldest sewn-through baffles (probably for ease of sewing and weight) but it makes many of their expensive "custom" quilts quite suspect to me. Box or trapezoid baffles make a lot of difference over sewn-through in warmth in my experience.

 Dark-Cloud 08 Mar 2021
In reply to Dave Cundy:

I like the look of the quilts as a system with the NeoAir Xlite, do you just sleep directly on the pad when using a Thermarest quilt ? Is in not a bit sweaty or uncomfortable having skin direct on the pad ?

 jmerrick21 08 Mar 2021
In reply to Frank R.:

Have a look at cocoon overbags. No hood, primaloft gold on top with just a nylon under side to keep draughts out. I brought one as a sleeping bag top up for really cold nights but have started using it a my main bag. 

OP wjcdean 08 Mar 2021
In reply to Dark-Cloud:

I believe most people carry a lightweight set of base layers to sleep in. As a disgusting sweaty human this is already in my sack as a change of clothes for when I get to the desired camping spot

 Dave Cundy 08 Mar 2021
In reply to Dark-Cloud:

A silk liner is your friend!

I lay out my quilt/bag, shove the inflated mat into it and then put the silk liner in ( i.e. on the mat but under the insulated part of the quilt/bag).

It works so well that i have made two for friends.  One friend cocked it up and put the mat under the quilt/bag.  He woke up cold as the uninsulated bit had worked its way on top!

I use the system primarily for cycle touring where packed volume is at a premium.  Mountain marathons would be another good use.  Another mate uses his as an emergency bivy when motorcycle touring, if he can't find a bed somewhere.


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