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Crampons coming off

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 kass ski 01 Apr 2020

My crampons have now come off my boots six times in the last two years, while in use.  Inconvenient.  I suspect that the crampons (Grivel Air Tech New Matic) are simply not compatible with the boots (Asolo rigid B2 boots).  I've adjusted the fit endlessly at home but it doesn't make any difference.  The boot toes are quite narrow and rounded and the front lugs are only approximately half in contact with the boot. 

Has anyone encountered something similar?  What kind of front fixing (C2) might work better?

 anthonylewis 01 Apr 2020
In reply to kass ski:

It may be that you need different bars between the front and rear section.  I can't remember whether I converted from a straight bar to a curved bar, or the other way around. But the issue disappeared for me. 

 kass ski 02 Apr 2020
In reply to anthonylewis:

Thanks.  Do you mean the connecting bars that link the front and rear sections?  I did swap and reverse the existing bars some time ago, but it didn't make any difference.

 tjdodd 02 Apr 2020
In reply to kass ski:

Under what sort of use are they coming off?  How rigid are your B2 boots - some are closer to B1 and some closer to B3.

I had problems with B2 boots a few years ago.  I was never sure if I had just put them on badly or it was excessive flex - I suspect it was my incompetence.  In the end I changed them for comfortable B3 boots as I wanted to move onto steeper terrain in any case.  I never had a problem after that.

 Takein 03 Apr 2020
In reply to kass ski:

With New Matics I'd be really surprised if the front was the problem – isn't it far more likely to be the rear binding that's releasing the boot? How pronounced is the heel welt on the boot?

But Anthonylewis is right. The connecting bars that join the front and rear sections can be replaced with longer, super asymetric or flexible versions for better fit. See link below. Unless you can find a shop that has the bars in stock and will let you take your crampons in to test, you might end up spending money on different bars or accessories and not fix the issue.

Personally I'd be tempted to sell or swap the crampon for some with the New Classic bindings. They're heavier but absolutely bombproof and will reliably stay on almost any boot. Or as tjdodd suggest, change to a more rigid boot...

https://www.grivelgb.co.uk/products/accessories/?pp=12-1&category[0]=46

 kass ski 04 Apr 2020
In reply to tjdodd:

They've come off in all sorts of situations, walking on flat glacier, walking on crisp neve, descending semi soft snow, ploughing up in deep snow, front pointing up steep snow ice.  And the boots are quite rigid, I can't really bend them at all in my hands.  The crampons look and feel secure when I put them on at home - I can't budge them with my hands.  Strange.

 kass ski 04 Apr 2020
In reply to Takein:

The heel welt is big enough to take the lower lip of the clip with just enough space to run a fingernail edge along it too, so the clip isn't overhanging the welt.  As I said above, they look solid enough at home, can't make them slip with my hands...  I'll look up the Classic bindings, and I'll have a look at the connecting bars.  Thanks!

 HardenClimber 05 Apr 2020
In reply to kass ski:

Make sure the end of the bar on the heel clip goes right through the hole with ehe flattened bit on the inside....sometine when you fold them up it can slip out. The crampon will go on fine and seem fine untill it gets a lateral stress when it pops out.

In reply to tjdodd:

> Under what sort of use are they coming off?  How rigid are your B2 boots - some are closer to B1 and some closer to B3.

> I had problems with B2 boots a few years ago.  I was never sure if I had just put them on badly or it was excessive flex - I suspect it was my incompetence.  In the end I changed them for comfortable B3 boots as I wanted to move onto steeper terrain in any case.  I never had a problem after that.

So, B2 or not B2... that is the question. Whether ‘tis.... 😁

 kass ski 05 Apr 2020
In reply to HardenClimber:

Thanks - not sure exactly what you mean?  The connecting bar goes through the little button clip on the heel piece, and then the slot on the front piece.  Do you mean the clip can come come undone?

 kass ski 05 Apr 2020
In reply to jimmccall:

Haha, don't often get Shakespeare in a climbing context...

 Graham 07 Apr 2020
In reply to kass ski:

I feel like we need pictures of the crampons on your boots.

 HardenClimber 07 Apr 2020
In reply to kass ski:

No, the bail on the heel clip where it links to the neel section 9thick round 'wire' with 'crimped' ends which will go through an oval hole.

 kass ski 11 Apr 2020
 kass ski 11 Apr 2020
In reply to HardenClimber:

Got you.  The bail on the heel clip looks fine and doesn't come off, seems very secure.  I've not noticed it loose when the crampons have come off either. 

 Graham 11 Apr 2020
In reply to kass ski:

and the back? let's see the whole thing. 

 matthew 11 Apr 2020
In reply to Graham:

... post a top / bottom / front view - if the boot is slim, maybe it is slipping forwards between the front stops in use? The heel lever will release if that happens.

 barry donovan 12 Apr 2020
In reply to kass ski:

That pic has really put the hook in - can’t wait to see the rest

In reply to kass ski:

I'm seeing the same photo from both links, the toe area and front binding. Are others seeing the back of the boot? 

 Graham 12 Apr 2020
In reply to TobyA:

Nope, we're all seeing the front of the boot. C'mon kass!  Let us live vicariously through your crampon fitting problems...

 barry donovan 12 Apr 2020
In reply to Graham:

Can’t wait - the mysterious boot was like no other winter boot ?  Rolled up toe  ?  And a mysterious sole  ?   

 wee jamie 12 Apr 2020
In reply to kass ski:

Hmmm, the only thing I can think of is that the rear heel clip is being levered off the boot when you tighten the straps.  Salomon had this issue with the Pro Ice some years ago.  the boots were sold with a rubber piece which slipped over the heel clip to stop it being levered off. 

I'll try to describe it:  Look at the rear of the boot/crampon in profile - you have the top of the heel clip where the straps are connected, and at the bottom is the part which locks onto your boot.  It is possible that between these two points there is contact between the heel clip and the boot and it is acting as a fulcrum, levering off the clip.

 wbo2 12 Apr 2020
In reply to kass ski:  Those boots are really worn I think, and worn boots flex more.  They might have been B2 once but I'm betting they're flexing enough to pop off.  What size are they - bigger sizes flex more (though they look rather small)

 wee jamie 14 Apr 2020
In reply to wee jamie:

on second thoughts, I agree with others here - the boots are too rounded and too flexible for C2 crampons like those.  Get yourself a proper pair of stiff mountain boots - B2 or B3.  If you are doing anything remotely steep, you will appreciate the extra rigidity and support of a totally rigid boot.  I love my Baturas - they're light, bombproof and comfy for days on end.  Find them on sale and you'll never look back

 kass ski 14 Apr 2020
In reply to wee jamie: and everyone else

Sorry I haven't posted the other pictures until now, technical problems with my PC not working for a few days.  Here's a folder of several photos of the boots and crampons, hope it works this time.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lysu5GB1QhA9UyOWItC0KSfdxTYPQJ_s

The boots aren't very old, only a few alpine days per year, and the odd scottish winter climb, so I don't think they're worn, just that very rounded toe section.

I don't do anything remotely steep any more...

I'll look closely at the rear heel clip again.

Thanks

Adam

 Graham 15 Apr 2020
In reply to kass ski:

The toe in the other photos looks like it could potentially slip out of there.  I thought the heel shelf looked a bit small, but in the clearer photo the heel looks okay.   It doesn't look like a great fit either way.  Can you make the crampon smaller and really push the toe deeper into that toe bail?

 SwissChris1 15 Apr 2020
In reply to kass ski:

I reckon you can go at least 1 possibly even 2 holes smaller on the bar

 barry donovan 15 Apr 2020
In reply to kass ski:

I would invest in a set with new classic bindings and never play crampon roulette again 

 jon59 15 Apr 2020
In reply to kass ski:

I would say from the photo that the front bindings are to narrow which means the front part of the boot is not sitting correctly in the crampon, you are over tightening the crampon to compensate for this issue. The other slight issue is your boots have quite a pronounced rocka / bend which is curving your toe upwards so when fitted to a more ridged crampon it will force the rear heel clip off. Try splaying the front lugs outwards slightly and bending the crampon bar inwards slightly before you go to the expense of changing your boots / crampons.

Post edited at 23:43
1
 kass ski 17 Apr 2020
In reply to jon59:

Thanks guys for all these suggestions.  I'll experiment with these options, but I have to say I'm tempted to go for a classic binding - if I can get one retrofitted to my existing crampons.  The rocker issue also seems a likely contender for the problem.

Cheers

Adam

 tom.fox 17 Apr 2020
In reply to kass ski:my new crampons came off twice on the way to climb launchey gill a few years ago.wouldnt have been so bad except passed twice by Al Hinkes as I was re-fitting.ask Al,he didnt help though

 matthew 20 Apr 2020
In reply to kass ski:

Surprised nobody has mentioned this but from the side view (3rd picture) it looks as though your adjustment bar is incorrectly fitted. The stainless adjuster plate is not sitting down flat - can't see very clearly but it looks as though the bar is under it? (The bar should be in the black slot).

Post edited at 08:29
 ColdWill 20 Apr 2020
In reply to wee jamie:

I remember this but it was only certain crampons if I remember.

 cb294 20 Apr 2020
In reply to matthew:

Well spotted. As it is, the entire heel section can tilt forward, causing the heel binding to pop off the heel welt. That the fit seems a bit loose will only add to problems.

CB

 matthew 21 Apr 2020
In reply to kass ski:

Aye, they're misassembled, clearest in photo of heel (#4).

Check you have not damaged the adjuster before re-assembing correctly. Snug to length & tighten screw on heel lever.

That's probably all you need to do. Fit is not ideal but no worse than many. Heel clip & front stops look okay.

NB swap the heel pieces left<>right, buckles go on outside.

If adjuster is damaged replace with nut and bolt.


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