Loading Notifications...

Crampons - secondary point length vs. toe of boot

Please Register as a New User in order to reply to this topic.
 mcawle 15 Sep 2020

I'm having a muse about crampon fitting and the length of the secondary front points on crampons, as I swelter here in a city.

I read this article a while ago: https://willgadd.com/a-simple-fix-frontpoints-and-tibialis-anterior/

Summary of his view is that the secondary points of your crampons should extend further than the toe of the boot, so that the secondary points engage (make contact) with the ice when you kick in with your primary front points. The argument is that it creates more stability and reduces fatigue on your legs.

This seems like a sound argument.

I didn't check secondary point length when pairing my boots and crampons (La Sportiva Nepal Cube, old version, and Petzl Lynx, both a few years old now). Upon review, I am pretty convinced that my secondary points are slightly shorter than the toe of my boot, or at best they are the same length depending on which angle you are kicking in at etc.

This is the case regardless of e.g. how I adjust the front and back bails in the different adjustment holes, and whether I use the plastic basket or metal bail.

My question is: who here cares about this, and who doesn't? Does it really make a difference? And who has picked crampons to ensure that the secondary points extend further than the boot?

Asking as a gumby who has climbed a little bit of ice and never felt super good on my feet. I'm happy to concede a lot of this will be inexperience but I'm wondering if this secondary point situation could also be a factor.

Curious what everyone thinks.

Report
 nniff 15 Sep 2020
In reply to mcawle:

I have a mono and two secondary points that are slightly in front.  You should be able to move the toe bale back a bit, which will move the secondary points forward, but will also move the main point(s) forward, so you need to bring the main point(s) back a hole.  If you main point is too long it will increase the strain on your legs and make you less stable.

IMHO stick with the bale rather than change to the basket

Report
 mcawle 15 Sep 2020
In reply to nniff:

Thanks - I have tried adjusting so that I'm using the rear-most hole for the front bail and basket, and either way it still seems short. Unfortunately the bail on the Lynx doesn't seem to fit the Cube very securely, so I use the basket instead, but the issue is the same either way.

Might have to go rustle up the gear to take some pictures to drive the debate; at least it will keep me out of trouble...

Report
 mcawle 19 Sep 2020
In reply to mcawle:

Bump, still curious

Report
 HeMa 20 Sep 2020
In reply to mcawle:

I care, which is why I try to get crampons with long secundary points. The best I have are Grivel Racing bolt-ons. But BD Stingers are almost good.

i think Grivel Rambos also have long secundary points.

and perhaps the new Petzl Dart.

Report
 mcawle 20 Sep 2020
In reply to HeMa:

Thanks. In your experience do crampons often have shorter secondary points than what you'd want? I've only been playing this game for about 3 years so I've only owned Petzl Sarkens and then Lynx. Interested in this because I need all the help I can get ;)

How do you find the Stingers?

Report
 HeMa 20 Sep 2020
In reply to mcawle:

> Thanks. In your experience do crampons often have shorter secondary points than what you'd want?

Yes, especially those jack of all trades (like Lynx, Cyborg, G14) as long secondary points are not as nice when walking on snow.

> How do you find the Stingers?

They seem ok, but I actually preferred my modded Darts more (grivel heel bails). But as they are fixed point, they are getting too short for even drytooling.

Of the big brands, I think the Grivel Rambo might still be the best for climbing, horrid for walking though.

When I got the Stingers 2 or 3 years ago, it seemed like the best option. Were I know on the market, I might look into Krukonogi or Kutziapzeju options, I recall they might now have also non-bolt options available.

Report
 Slim 25 Sep 2020
In reply to mcawle:

I do care. However, it really depends on what angle you are measuring at, and what you are counting as the front of your boot. The secondary points definitely do not need to touch on a vertical line, but a 45 degree angle is to far back.

I had crampons for a long time with too short secondary points, and set up mono; they were sketchy in chandeliered ice, and super tiring everywhere steep.

Rambo's certainly do well in that respect. If you are heavier, and have a larger foot, the vertical frame also prevents flex, improving both durability of the crampon, and a more solid, secure feel for your feet. Cube is a pretty lightweight boot, so not very stiff sold.

If you are lightweight, and have small feet, this is less of an issue.

Do you have a picture or two?

On the pictures I saw on the web, it definitely looks as if the second points are on the shorter side.

https://www.thealpinestart.com/2014/03/03/field-tested-petzl-lynx-review/

On a side note, if the toe bails don't fit your boots well, try some different ones. Grivel fits better in my experience, but Black Diamond has narrow, standard and wide ones as well.

Post edited at 16:24
Report

Please Register as a New User in order to reply to this topic.