UKH

Cold re-proofing of Goretex

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 Chris Harris 04 Jan 2016

UKC brain picking time.

It seems that all Goretex re-proofing products follow this cycle:

1. Wash in detergent (EDIT - wrong thing, should be a specific cleaning product for the purpose, I just used detergent as a generic soapy term).
2. Wash in proofing agent
3. Tumble dry to activate proofing agent.

I don't have a tumble drier, are there any products out there that don't require this step?

Cheers
Chris
Post edited at 13:12
 climbwhenready 04 Jan 2016
In reply to Chris Harris:

Nikwax
 ianstevens 04 Jan 2016
In reply to Chris Harris:

I don't one either, and just take it to laundrette for the tumble drying phase.
 ianstevens 04 Jan 2016
In reply to climbwhenready:

> Nikwax

Should be heat activated.
 More-On 04 Jan 2016
In reply to climbwhenready:

+1 for (spray on) Nikwax
 climbwhenready 04 Jan 2016
In reply to ianstevens:

No it doesn't!
 More-On 04 Jan 2016
In reply to ianstevens:

Not according to Nikwax
 GarethSL 04 Jan 2016
In reply to Chris Harris:

You can use an iron. But don't wash in detergent, use liquid soap, tech wash or some such.
 ianstevens 04 Jan 2016
In reply to More-On:

Well turns out I was wrong on that one. In my experience it always tends to work substanially better with a run through the tumble drier!
 Chris Harris 04 Jan 2016
In reply to climbwhenready:

I hate to seem ungrateful, but "Nikwax" is a company which sells a wide range of products, rather than a specific product.

I'm guessing people are referring to this product, any chance of confirmation?

http://www.nikwax.co.uk/en-gb/products/productdetail.php?productid=16&itemid=1&fabricid=1174

 More-On 04 Jan 2016
In reply to ianstevens:

No problem - this was 'in my mind' as I'd reproofed my wife's shell the other day!
I cannot say I've noticed a difference and like the simple spray on and leave approach myself.
 More-On 04 Jan 2016
In reply to Chris Harris:

Indeed it is - sorry - you had asked specifically about Gore Tex...
 climbwhenready 04 Jan 2016
In reply to Chris Harris:
Yup, sorry! I use the TX.Direct wash-in - same product, but for use in a washing machine - which works great on Paramo. I don't know if using the wash-in version affects the breathability of other fabrics (but no worse than any other wash-in product, I imagine).

[ As an aside, I do wonder if their Softshell Proof/DownProof/RugProof/TentProof/etc. are actually any different, or just different labels... ]
Post edited at 13:23
 ianstevens 04 Jan 2016
In reply to climbwhenready:

> [ As an aside, I do wonder if their Softshell Proof/DownProof/RugProof/TentProof/etc. are actually any different, or just different labels... ]

I've often wondered this, but considering the recent Nurofen case surely any company would be on their guard about selling the same thing in different bottles?
 Rigid Raider 04 Jan 2016
In reply to Chris Harris:

I have a 25 year-old Sprayway Goretex cycling jacket and reckoning it owed me nothing, I washed it then dried it and soaked it thoroughly in Thompson's Water Seal. For a few days it was a bit stiff then it loosened up and it now has a nice soft feel, and it's still as water repellent as the day I bought it. I just can't kill that jacket.
In reply to various: I don't know what some people are talking about, all three of the Nikwax waterproofing products in my cupboard (TX Direct wash-in, Softshell proof spray-on and Glove proof sponge-on) all clearly recommend tumble drying wherever possible.
Just to quote verbatim from the TX Direct and Softshell Proof so there is no confusion:
"Air dry or tumble dry on a low setting if care label allows."

Also, to answer the other question, I heard from a Nikwax rep that all their waterproofing products are very similar but do vary slightly in concentration and exact formulation depending whether they are designed to be used as wash-in, spray-on or sponge-on.
From the amounts recommended in the instructions the implication would be that the spray-on is a bit more diluted than the TX Direct wash-in but I couldn't be certain. Although, next time a softshell needs proofed I'd be tempted to do a side by side comparison for future reference.

Lusk 04 Jan 2016
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

It just means you can dry it in a tumble dryer.
Presumably it has no effect on the waterproofness.
 More-On 04 Jan 2016
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

An interesting point as Nikwax's own website states "Nikwax TX.Direct® treated clothing needs no heat to develop Durable Water Repellency (DWR)", which lead me, when I read this way back when, to infer that you can tumble dry, but that is not required for the treatment to work at all or better than air drying.
 cousin nick 04 Jan 2016
In reply to Chris Harris:

From the Nikwax website:
'Nikwax TX.Direct® Wash-In is the market leader. It is easy and quick to apply in a washing machine, and its highly Durable Water Repellency (DWR) develops on air drying. The washing machine application ensures that the treatment goes right through the garment, treating seams, tapes and cords, as well as the fabric. Also, as the need for tumble drying is removed, this saves energy and protects more vulnerable, older, garments from heat. Nikwax TX.Direct® Wash-In has been specifically designed and optimised for breathable waterproof garments; it leaves a flexible water repellent treatment on individual fibres allowing moisture vapour to pass through, maintaining breathability.'

Note that it mentions the need for tumble drying is removed!

Fluorocarbon-based proofing agents, such as Grangers Xtreme Repel, on the other hand do definitely need heating to activate the proofing agent.

So, since you don't have a tumble drier, stick with Nikwax TX wash in. I use it annually on my Paramo gear as recommended by the manufacturer, Just be sure that your washing machine and detergent tray are scrupulously cleaned of detergent before using TX, since any trace of detergent (other than pure soap) will reduce the efficiency of TX.

N
 HGTS 04 Jan 2016
In reply to Chris Harris:
I remember reading somewhere that tumble drying reactivates the dwr on the jacket. However I think that ironing on a low heat which the care label usually allows does exactly the same thing. If you don't have a tumble dryer then the best thing to do would be to wash with the wash in nickwax stuff, then rewash with the nickwax waterproof stuff, air dry the coat and finally iron it if the care label allows.
Post edited at 18:01
In reply to Chris Harris:

I have ironed various goretexie jackets, at high temp, no damage whatsoever. Think the idea is to flatten the nape of nylon fabric smooth, hence water runs off without clinging to, soaking in? After ironing, run jacket under tap, water beads, runs off.

Stuart
 Andy Morley 04 Jan 2016
In reply to Chris Harris:

> UKC brain picking time.

Try Epsilon
Ysgo 05 Jan 2016
In reply to ianstevens:
If you ask Nikwax in person they will tell you that a DWR will work better if it's heat treated. They say that it doesn't NEED heat treatment to try and get people without tumble driers to buy their product over the competition. Grangers on the other hand say there's no point treating it without heating it as it will wear off quicker. That explains why you find it works better after heating.

As for the different bottles and different contents, they sometimes have to get batches certified. For example down wash and Tech Wash are the same composition, but with a bit of paper saying that the down wash is usable on down products. Two of the footwear proofers are simply different stickers on the bottles. However they are all the same price so it's not like you pay a premium for the same product.




P.S. I personally prefer the Grangers 2 in 1 wash and proof, followed by a tumble dry.
Post edited at 11:04
 SenzuBean 05 Jan 2016
In reply to Chris Harris:

Presumably you could also use a hairdryer judiciously instead of a tumble dryer?
 Mike Conlon 05 Jan 2016
In reply to cousin nick: Following this thread at the same time as needing to reproof Sprayway and Berghaus, Goretex jackets. I headed off to Go Outdoors for Nikwax wash and TX.Direct Wash In. I bought the Tech Wash but the sales guy recommended the spray on version of the TX.Direct. His logic was that he wanted his jackets to be proofed on the outside while remaining breathable on the inside. As I had some TX.Direct Spray On at home, I thought to follow his recommendation. I am just waiting for the garments to dry off a bit before spraying. Anyone have thoughts on this. Having sprayed the jackets (unless told otherwise), do I wait for them to dry off before "activating "them in the dryer or do I dry them in the dryer ? Sorry if I sound like a muppet but I struggle with multiple options.
 Chris Harris 05 Jan 2016
In reply to SenzuBean:

> Presumably you could also use a hairdryer judiciously instead of a tumble dryer?

Have you seen my profile pic?
 SenzuBean 05 Jan 2016
In reply to Chris Harris:

> Have you seen my profile pic?

5 ladies in there - one of them's bound to have a hairdyer. ;)
 99ster 05 Jan 2016
In reply to Mike Conlon:

There's a good video of the whole process here (showing an Arcteryx jacket):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4N6ZuKTZ_c&

And a similar video by Grangers:
https://www.vimeo.com/100908259
 digby 05 Jan 2016
In reply to Mike Conlon:

> His logic was that he wanted his jackets to be proofed on the outside while remaining breathable on the inside.

That doesn't really make sense. Breathability means from inside to outside. A transfer of moisture out the way.
 galpinos 05 Jan 2016
In reply to digby:

I believe his point is that you don't want the moisture to bead and rundown the inside of the jacket but to pass through the fabric to the outside surface and evaporate away.............
 digby 05 Jan 2016
In reply to galpinos:

Well since both products presumably achieve this the logic is faulty.
In reply to Mike Conlon:
As others have said, for waterproofs it won't really matter but it DOES matter more for some softshell materials with an insulating or wicking layer on the inside of the fabric. You probably want to use the spray-on for them.
Sounds like the member of staff was a bit confused between waterproofs and softshell.
Post edited at 16:12
Ysgo 05 Jan 2016
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

To be fair, if you have a "2-layer" waterproof then consensus is that the spray is better. This sort of garment is identified by having a loose layer of material 'hanging' from the inside. The wash in works fine on a "3-layer" material where there is a single ply of material. This might help my explanation:
https://www.montbell.us/about/technical-info/materials/gore-tex/images/pict-1.gif
 nathan79 05 Jan 2016
In reply to Ysgo:

This hits the nail on the head. 3-layer material- wash in or spray. 2-layer or softshell- spray. If I recall correctly it's something to do with the proofer affecting breathability by clogging pores.
 mattsccm 10 Jan 2016
In reply to nathan79:

Hang it by a radiator?

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