Climbing Technology friends

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 andrewdickins 03 Sep 2020

I've been looking around at different cams/friends to add to my rack as I only have nuts and hexes at the moment. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with CT friends (linked at end).

I've used CTs click up belay before and found it to be a good piece of kit, but I've not really seen anyone talking about or reviewing their cams at all. Does anyone have any advantages/disadvantages to them compared to the common DMM and WC ones used?

https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/climbing-technology-anchor-cams-set-cam/?aid=f...

In reply to andrewdickins:

Not used them but looking at the picture they are single axle, which means each cam will have a smaller range than the equivalent double axle cam. Also they don't have thumb loops like friends/camalots, although personally I've never missed it on my dragons.

 Dell 03 Sep 2020
In reply to andrewdickins:

> I've been looking around at different cams/friends to add to my rack as I only have nuts and hexes at the moment. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with CT friends (linked at end).

> Does anyone have any advantages/disadvantages to them compared to the common DMM and WC ones used?

Looking at that website, the price!

In reply to Dell:

> Looking at that website, the price!

Do you consider that good or bad? £50 each seems neither cheap nor expensive.

 Dell 03 Sep 2020
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Now you mention it...

I was comparing to their 'other products' which would suggest that you can get 6 DMM Dragons for £199.95, but when you click on the product page it's only a set of 3. 

It's the old 'picture for illustrative purposes only' thing. As if pictures serve any other purpose. 

As for the cams. CT make some decent kit, but their cams don't offer anything over other brands.  

 C Witter 03 Sep 2020
In reply to andrewdickins:

I think you can almost certainly get better cams cheaper.

E.g. https://shop.epictv.co.uk/en/cams/wild-country/friend-set-04-05-075-1-2-3?

Or better still: https://www.ebayDOTcoDOTuk/itm/Camalot-C4-BLACK-DIAMOND-75-Green-Climbing-C...

https://www.ebayDOTcoDOTuk/itm/Black-Diamond-Camalot-C4-2-Climbing-Cams/392...

Etc.

I personally would try to avoid spending more than £40/cam. If you can't find them at that sort of price, just wait a bit and there'll be a deal on before long!

Post edited at 14:42
 rgold 06 Sep 2020
In reply to andrewdickins:

If you can handle the price, I think Totems are the best cam you can get right now.

We can't tell from the pictures is whether the lobes that are anodized are anodized on the cam contact surfaces.  Totem was the first to note that anodizing on the cam surfaces reduces the cam grip (until the anodizing wears off), and now most of the other manufacturers have followed suit.

A second issue is that the color-coding doesn't seem to follow what has become the standard established by BD.  One of the advantages of standard coloring is you know what to grab for regardless of the brand; CT has gone its own way with the colors so you'd have to learn their system and the BD system if you buy almost any other cam in the future. If the CT cams had some other special feature to recommend them, one might decide to live with the chromatic dissonance, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 Robert Durran 06 Sep 2020
In reply to rgold:

> A second issue is that the color-coding doesn't seem to follow what has become the standard established by BD.  One of the advantages of standard coloring is you know what to grab for regardless of the brand; CT has gone its own way with the colors so you'd have to learn their system and the BD system if you buy almost any other cam in the future. 

But are they actually the same sizes as BD/WC/DMM cams or do they usefully interleave those sizes, thus making them a good choice for a second set (in which case differing colours are obviously an advantage)? Wild Country Friends used to do this before they sadly opted for the Camalot clone route.

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 Misha 06 Sep 2020
In reply to andrewdickins:

Single axle cams are generally shit. They tend to get stuck irretrievably, have a smaller range and just feel rubbish to use. There’s a reason WC and DMM have followed BD in using double axles. The only exception is Totems, which are single axle but have a fairly different design which seems to get round the issues. 

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 Misha 06 Sep 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

Yeah but the old Friends were pretty rubbish compared to BD cams. Classic case of a company bringing out an amazing product on the market, sitting on its laurels then belatedly realising that a competitor has overtaken them by bringing out something even better. Don’t really like the new Friends either... the trigger action and general handling is not as good as BD and DMM. The DMM Dragons are my cam of choice these days. Nice to support a ‘local’ manufacturer as well.

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 Robert Durran 06 Sep 2020
In reply to Misha:

> Yeah but the old Friends were pretty rubbish compared to BD cams.

I've never found that at all. For many years my standard rack has been interleaving sized sets of Friends and Camalots and it has worked really well for me - no issues with either. Actually, the discontinuation of the friends played to my advantage because I managed to pick up a couple of sets cut price and stockpiled them - should just about see me through the rest of my climbing career!

In reply to andrewdickins:

I have been using a set for a few years now. They are as good as any single-axle cams around, in fact they might be one of the few still left on the market. Very reliable and a good at the price. They are basically like the old WC Friends (before the Heliums) and similar to the short-lived DMM Demons.

Alan

 TobyA 06 Sep 2020
In reply to Misha:

> Single axle cams are generally shit.

Normally your arguments are sensible and well argued, but I reckon you're completely wrong on that.

> They tend to get stuck irretrievably,

What!? Any cam badly placed can get stuck, but it doesn't seem to happen very often - the only jammed cam I've seen recently is a camalot (on Trapeze at Froggatt if anyone with mad cam-removal skills wants to do a public service). The only cam of mine that got stuck and we couldn't get out in the last 28 years of using them was a Dragon, and that's because the attachment of the stem-cap to the axle mounting failed so you couldn't push it - the stem just moved through the head. 

> have a smaller range

True, but were also noticeably lighter, I can't remember exactly anymore but I did work it out once. With DMM 4CU it was something like 8 of them weighed the same as 6 Camalots of the same era, covered the same range of sizes and of course gave you two extra potential runners. 

> just feel rubbish to use.

Eye of the beholder, so may be true for you but not necessarily for others.

> There’s a reason WC and DMM have followed BD in using double axles. 

Yep, and beardy Mike who designed the new twin axle friends has told us what the reason was for WC - fashion change and no one was buying single stem Friends anymore. It wasn't that they thought twin axles were a superior design.

In reply to Misha:

> Yeah but the old Friends were pretty rubbish compared to BD cams. Classic case of a company bringing out an amazing product on the market, sitting on its laurels then belatedly realising that a competitor has overtaken them by bringing out something even better.


Never had a problem with old Friends v Camalots. I think I worked out you could carry 7 Friends for the same weight as 6 Camalots. I much preferred the extra cam to the greater range (which I never noticed in practice). The only point I would give to Camalots is that the trigger wires were more durable

 wbo2 06 Sep 2020
In reply to Misha: Hardly shit.  Yes, double axles have advantages, but they're minor compared to the general 'concept'.   There have been some absolutely hopeless cams, but single axle friends in't in that group

 C Witter 06 Sep 2020
In reply to Misha:

Single axle cams aren't shit (case in point, the Totems, as you admit, but also almost every microcam ever made). I have a few and I've not got any of them stuck and don't find the range issue to be that great, especially on smaller sizes. Also, I can't see anything wrong with the new Friends - I only have a couple, but I find them to be quality through and through and with a better thumb-loop/extendable sling system than the Dragons or the C4s. They are a bit bigger than the Dragons, so compliment well, and the relatively wide, non-anodised lobes feel really secure. They're very light, too.

 rgold 07 Sep 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

> But are they actually the same sizes as BD/WC/DMM cams or do they usefully interleave those sizes, thus making them a good choice for a second set (in which case differing colours are obviously an advantage)? Wild Country Friends used to do this before they sadly opted for the Camalot clone route.

I don't know about sizing.  Some time ago, I had interleaved sets of cams and, honestly, found no advantage at all except maybe very early in a pitch when you actually could choose between the alternatives.  For me, it has proven to be better to know a cam size will enough to look at a crack and grab the right size more or less automatically.  I suppose you could achieve that with a more diverse rack too, but my brain size seems to be limited in this regard, and I found myself fumbling more rather than less with the differently-sized cams.


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