Climbing gear to top rope a garden tree

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dvc 06 Jul 2020

First post so apologies if it's in the wrong forum.  And I'm sure to use the wrong terminology in this post, so sorry for any cringes caused. 

I have a middling sized tree in my back garden, I'd like to set up a rope and maybe some holds on the tree so my 10 year old daughter can climb up it. And the two six year olds as they get older.f

However I don't know much about equipment so I'm not sure what to buy. I normally turn up at climbing walls and it's all set up, I haven't bought things other than a harness. 

I'm picturing a sling near the top of the tree, holding a carabiner, with a pulley, then a rope going up and down that I can use to belay. On top of that some strapped on holds so they don't damage the tree. 

I've scouted round for what I imagine would be a good set of kit for that, but I may be totally off base, so I was hoping I could get some advice:

I'm thinking I'd need a sling (2 slings, in case 1 fails) a carabiner, a pulley and a length of rope. 

So something like this:

Pulley: https://www.climbers-shop.com/2818651/products/petzl-fixed-cheek-pulley.asp... 

Carabiner: https://www.decathlon.co.uk/3000-carabiner-screwgate-id_8177504.html

Sling (x2 - just to be super safe): https://www.climbers-shop.com/9966874/products/dmm-11mm-x-120cm-dynatec-sli...

Rope: https://www.climbers-shop.com/10941488/products/edelweiss-10mm-x-60m-flashl...

Then once that's all in place I'll speak to these folks about tree holds - unless there's better suggestions of how to put holds on trees? 

Holds: https://www.monkeyhardware.com/en/monkey-sets/mixed-colors-monkey-sets/sets...

The whole thing could end up being very expensive, but my other two 6 year olds could also use it as they grow up. And the thought of being able to climb a big tree in my back garden with a rope just would've been unbelievable to me as a kid.

I'll get a professional tree climber to nip up and install the sling/rope etc in the first place, but I can't get them in until I've got the right kit. Is any of the above correct, or am I way off the mark? 

(p.s. I did search the forums, and saw this:  https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/gear/climbing_holds_on_garden_tree-718978. But it's not quite the same issue. Plus I don't have the space to create a climbing wall instead. It's the tree or nothing)

 petegunn 06 Jul 2020
In reply to dvc:

No need for a pulley but I would use 2 carabiners at the top on the sling (back to back so the gates don't rub). Have you got a harness for both yourself and your daughter? oh and a belay device?

You can get short 30m ropes. 60m of rope will be leaving a lot of rope on the ground unless your tree is 30m high!

Had a friend that put blocks of wood on their tree fixed with straps and that seemed to work ok so those proper holds should be good. 

 tehmarks 06 Jul 2020
In reply to dvc:

In addition to ditching the pulley (really no need), I personally wouldn't bother with a second sling - if you make sure it's not running over any sharp edges and hitch it to the branch such that it doesn't move around and rub, the only realistic method of failure is going to be something which likely affects both slings at once - degradation through exposure to UV and the elements, the branch/bit of tree you've rigged it from snaps, if you want to be ridiculous maybe it's chewed through by an animal? It might be a better idea, however, to use cord instead of a flat sling - cord will be more durable and abrasion-resistant as the strength-giving bit is enclosed inside a sheath and not directly exposed to the elements. And I'd personally pad under the rigging sling/cord with a bit of burlap or similar, so that constant rubbing doesn't damage the tree (but maybe that's my arena concert rigging side showing through!). Also consider leaving a pull cord of thin cord up and using that to pull the rope up when you want to use it. Ideally you don't want to leave the rope exposed constantly to the elements, as that's the most expensive bit of the rigging side of things.

A couple of metres of 7mm cord, a couple of karabiners and a short rope, and however many metres of 5mm cord to use as a tag line to pull the rope up if you decide that's a good idea. And holds. And harnesses, and belay device.

Post edited at 22:36
dvc 06 Jul 2020
In reply to petegunn:

Yes, will still need to get another harness and belay device, but I've got a better grasp of those than things like ropes / slings etc. 

Forehead slap on the pulley vs carabiner, thanks. 

dvc 06 Jul 2020
In reply to tehmarks:

These are all fantastic pieces of advice! 

The pad under the cord is a great idea, as is the thin cord pull so it's not exposed all the time. I was wondering about that. 

Cord looks so tiny, but a quick search shows it does have the strength. That would certainly dig into the tree a bit more, so the pad would be even more essential. 

 bpmclimb 06 Jul 2020
In reply to dvc:

I wouldn't use 7mm cord: it's thin and will cut into your padding, and is typically only half the strength (11-13kN) of a standard climbing sling (22kN). Get a wide nylon sling (like the 26mm one from DMM, for example) and you're up to 32kN, and it's also much kinder to whatever you're wrapping it around.

 tehmarks 06 Jul 2020
In reply to bpmclimb:

I admit that 7mm is a bit on the physically skinny side, but it absolutely won't cut into any material used to protect the tree - I'm thinking something like hessian sack, folded over a few times. It will be cord-proof. A wide nylon sling is a good idea - but the reason I wouldn't personally use one is because slings will be more readily damaged by exposure to UV, the elements, abrasion, etc. 7mm is plenty strong enough, but it could easily be replaced by something thicker if desired. Another cheap and convenient alternative (maybe the best solution?) would be an industrial roundsling, as again they are 'sheathed' and so the core is protected from exposure.

For absolute clarity for the OP: a climbing sling wouldn't be inherently dangerous and is a perfectly valid way of doing it. I just think there are better choices.

Whatever the OP chooses, the most important thing really is to regularly inspect the rigging to make sure it remains in good order.

Post edited at 23:45
2
 deepsoup 06 Jul 2020
In reply to dvc:

I'm sure a nylon sling would be fine, but if it's going to be staying up there a while I think I'd be more inclined to ditch the textiles altogether and go with a steel sling.
(eg: https://www.abaris.co.uk/Lyon-Wire-Anchor-Strops?pv=770 )

Lose the carabiner(s) too, and use a pear-shaped maillon instead.
(eg: https://www.abaris.co.uk/Maillon-Rapide-10mm-Pear-Shape-Zinc-Plated-Galvani... )

The pull cord to make it easy to swap your climbing rope in and out is a good idea.  It doesn't have to be thin (unless you want it to be hard to see or unappealing for the kids to play with while you're not about).  In fact it might be better if it's about the same diameter, ish, as your climbing rope so it's easy to join the two with a simple overhand knot.  You could use a bit of cheapo blue polyprop for that, or maybe someone here could even bung you a bit of old retired rope on the understanding you're not going to dangle your daughter (or yourself) on it.

Post edited at 23:51
 tehmarks 06 Jul 2020
In reply to deepsoup:

> ...or maybe someone here could even bung you a bit of old retired rope on the understanding you're not going to dangle your daughter (or yourself) on it.

Great idea.

OP: I have 120m of retired rope (not for dangling from) currently sitting in the boot of my car that you're welcome to an off-cut of. I've been meaning to make rope mats out of it for the past year - but it'll probably never happen, and I don't have that many doors or need that many door mats regardless

Post edited at 23:59
 simondgee 07 Jul 2020
In reply to bpmclimb:

> I wouldn't use 7mm cord: it's thin and will cut into your padding, and is typically only half the strength (11-13kN) of a standard climbing sling (22kN). Get a wide nylon sling (like the 26mm one from DMM, for example) and you're up to 32kN, and it's also much kinder to whatever you're wrapping it around.

I know childhood obesity is on the rise ...but really strength of the any of these is immaterial given the max load will be ~ 2kN

Post edited at 03:11
 drconline 07 Jul 2020
In reply to deepsoup:

We have almost exactly this setup 10m up a big (18m) Conifer in our garden and it works great.

Tag line is definitely worth it to save leaving the climbing rope out.

Also we don't have holds as there are enough existing branches to climb those instead.

Bit of a crux getting off the ground but otherwise a nice safe climb for newbies that feels both safe and scary at the same time.

dvc 07 Jul 2020
In reply to drconline:

When you say you have the same set up, which of the options have you used at the top? Cord / sling / industrial sling / steel sling?

 drconline 07 Jul 2020
In reply to dvc:

Sorry - to be more specific we have used a webbing sling round the trunk of the tree with a Maillon anchor backed up by a rope loop round a big branch. Then a tagline run up to allow installing and removing the climbing rope.

We used this sling with a protective sleeve, but did consider a steel strop also.

These are a bit cheaper and should do the job as it's only a temporary setup.

https://www.gustharts.com//climbing-equipment-c1/rope-tape-slings-c71/lyon-...

As others have said plan to check it all over on a regular basis to avoid issues.

I would see whether just using branches and maybe bolting some wooden blocks into the tree using coach bolts to fill any gaps would do instead of those expensive holds. As long as you don't go mad with the coach bolts my understanding is that they are not detrimental to the tree in the long term.

Hope that helps.

Post edited at 10:36
dvc 07 Jul 2020
In reply to drconline:

Just found these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/HUKOER-Climbing-Stones-Ratchet-Climber/dp/B0872VPF... £70 for 15 holds and 6 straps! That's a bit more like it.

Oh lordy, I'm getting really excited about this now. This is going to be fantastic, and that covered sling looks good too. I'm hoping it'll all be up there for a couple of years, so I'll need to check/maintain it regularly. All depends how much the kids are into it. Steel sling means I can forget about it a bit more.

 CrispinLog 07 Jul 2020

Use a cambium saver, they're designed to act as the top anchor for arb work, reducing friction and protecting the tree. Also if you get a throw line and you're a good shot you can set it up from the ground.

 bpmclimb 07 Jul 2020
In reply to simondgee:

> I know childhood obesity is on the rise ...but really strength of the any of these is immaterial given the max load will be ~ 2kN

Well in that case, why not save a quid or two and use 4mm cord: it would still be strong enough (300-350 kg). I wouldn't, though, because both much wider/thicker and very much stronger are readily available, and relatively cheap. 


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