UKH

I am familiar with the Buffalo 'pile and pertex' technology, and I recently saw a friend wearing a very similar jacket by Marmot I think. Without knowing how to describe the system or what to search for, I'm struggling to find similar jackets by other manufacturers. 
Anyone know of other similar products by other makers?
Any recommendations, or is Buffalo the canine testicles?

I've a smock which is similar to Buffalo made by Montane. Must be at least 25 years old & I've no idea if they still sell them.

Edit to add that out of curiosity I had a quick search & it seems they do still sell something either the same or similar - https://montane.com/products/montane-extreme-smock

I believe Alpkit do one too, the Jura.

I was looking for something similar a while ago. There are a number of broadly-similar products of various weights and warmth. As Doug says, those by Montane are probably most similar to the classic Buffalo stuff, and the Marmot Ether Driclime is a lighter interpretation.

There are others e.g. Hilltrek (Suilven), Jottnar (Asger), Mountain Equipment (Kinesis), Rab (Vapour-Rise). Have a browse on their websites. Also, you'll find tests of some here on UK Climbing. I hope you find something suitable.

Someone will probably come along and mention Paramo. Oh, I've just done it. Damn!

Does anyone know of a company who make pile sleeping bag liners? I have an amazing one by Field & Trek which must be 30 years old at least and it's the warmest thing in the world (it's just also the tightest thing in the world!). The outside is almost canvassy in feel.

Buffalo make them. I think you can buy the liners and outer covers separately.

Bloody Hell, I remember when rock and run were selling those for £50!

RAB make the Vapour Rise series which is the same idea (never tried though).

Much lighter, the vapour rise stuff. Buffalo do something similar but not the same as the proper full weight stuff. 

For the lighter weight options, the usual description is 'shelled micropile'.

I'm surprised that 'pile pertex' isn't giving you the hits you need. But hey, google has a mind of its own.

Oh. Hang on...

https://www.google.com/search?q=pile+pertex+jacket

Hmmm. Following the needle ports link from Google has unearthed this sartorial gem:

https://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Clothing-Footwear/Technical-Clothing...

If you don’t mind second hand, this trax version in medium is available.

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1320346983/trax-pertex-jacket-vintage-90s-d...

Oh yeah; that...

Apologies for the slow reply. Yes, as Shuffle says; Buffalo.

Buy Buffalo, buy once. 

Honestly, I've had my active shirt over half my life and it's still trucking. 

Get one. Get a hood. Thank me in 2 decades when it's still in service. 

Paramo is very similar to Buffalo in that it's really sweaty, not waterproof and mainly used by grown men hiding in bushes.

Does anybody have experience of the buffalo tecmax. Specifically I'm thinking about using a buffalo for spine challenger so I will be active but not legging it.. I had a buffalo years ago that eventually died so I know they are good but confused by the various options now. I suspect it is too insulated but would welcome any thoughts. Alternatives I would.look at are alpkit Jura I guess

This isn't completely true - I've found the Pertex on the older models at least softens with age and washing become a bit less wind resistant and definitely less water resistant. The zips on my first pair of HA salopettes failed as well, probably after about 6 years of regular use. I could have got them replaced probably, but by that point the pertex was pretty knackered anyway so replaced them. If you don't wash the kit the Pertex lasts better. My Belay Jacket still feels quite crisp in that way, but if you wear the mountain or big face shirts next to the skin, or over a very thin wicking layer, you'll want to wash it if you want to be even vaguely civilised.

Got a very old purple shirt and it's still going strong, despite the colour fading a lot and the pile being very compressed in most areas.

Loved it as a concept a long while ago, but it seems to have been left behind due to the fact that (unless I'm not keeping up) it doesn't offer any kind of stretch compared to more modern offerings.

It's got its place but it's been left behind for a number of reasons. I stopped using it because it's really heavy, bulky and far less versatile than layers. If I was doing something really low energy like bird watching I'd consider pertex and pile but for winter climbing I gradually came to the realisation that I was never the right temperature with it. Climbing I was too hot so I arrived at the stance a sweaty mess then got really cold as I was damp. Adding a belay jacket didn't help and made for a massively bulky sack.

Dave

Did you wear it next to the skin as designed? Makes a massive difference to how it works. Creates a micro climate direct next to the skin and opening vents is much more effective. Even a very thin high wicking layer stops this process. Buffalos have no sartorial elegance but that applies to me as a person!

Look at the Thermolite options here: https://www.seatosummit.co.uk/products/sleep/sleeping-bag-liners/

I  still use a big face Buffalo shirt and HA salopettes. I find undoing the side zips on the shirt, and unclipping the crutch strap plus reclipping it higher, and also completely unzipping the salopette legs can give a lot of versatility without frequent stopping to remove layers works well. I find the salopettes can be worn thus even in hot sun. Can be chilly though when inactive in wet conditions.

Paramo anything is far, far removed from the Pile/Pertex system.

What do you call a man hiding in a bush?   -->  Russell

Ba-dum tsssh!  🥁

Yep, I had a tekmax shirt, I bought it from the place next to the Foundry as it was in a sale and really good value (about the same cost as a standard pile buffalo). I wore it to death over about 10 years - sea cliff climbing in winter, scout camping, hillwalking/VF & fishing.  It's definitely a warm bit of kit and I treated it like a wind/showerproof fleece, wearing it over a t-shirt in summer and sometimes a sweatshirt in winter. I never wore it next to the skin so cannot comment on it's performance in that respect, and I've never worn a traditional pile buffalo so cannot compare it with that. Needlesports or buffalo websites state it's popular with people like outdoor instructors who aren't always active due to its warmth.  The fleece inside stays looking nice a lot longer than pile does. The pertex on mine eventually died - rotted out at the stitching on the back of the neck from taking it on and off, and I'd trashed the sleeves through chimneying and hacking through brambles and sloe bushes.  It was so old the red parts had faded to dark pink though, and I definitely had my money's worth (and would say the same even if I paid full price).  I subsequently had a teclite shirt and don't think that was as good - nowhere near as bombproof, and a snugger cut.

Edit - Just had a quick shufty at Needlesports - £200 for a standard one now, wow! That's outstripped inflation.  Can't see the Tekmax there either, Needlesports seem to have condensed their range.

You can get used British Army buffalo-style smocks for about 25 quid on ebay. Not sure who makes them, but they *probably* won't be awful, especially at that price. 

Anyone who likes the duck tape bondage look can thank you in 2 years.

OP: I have a Montane Smock, can't recall the model but its the posh on with tougher material on the forearms and shoulders. In black and orange, like a 70s car. I used it for winter climbing for a while, it worked quite well but it got torn to shreds easily when doing mixed. That was a time when all my other stuff was ancient and I couldn't afford the latest. It was also my 'dry robe' when sea kayaking, but weight and bulk aren't issues there. I still use it as a general bad weather dirty work/dry robe/sitting round the tent thing but when Patagonia brought out the Mixmaster I realised that dressing up as an orange polar bear had had its day.

I have the alpkit version. Very good and cheaper. Zipped hood. Fit a bit roomy for me. Spent 3 days in it last week on a v wet backpacking trip... worked brilliantly. 

Look decent but it's pile I'm after really. I love that you can get in it, wet and cold, and you will feel warm. Nothing does that like pile in my experience.

I have been using Vapour Rise since 2003. I’m down to one VR jacket, one montane shelled Polartech Alpha Direct, Unshelled alpha direct (Rab alpha flash jacket) which iI use with a windproof if necessary, plus recently bought a ME Kinesis for half price in a sale.

The format works really well and I wear it for both biking and mountaineering.  I did stray into Gore windstopper shells a little over 10 years ago but they were sweaty as hell, heavier and nowhere near as warm and didn’t dry anywhere near as good.  I returned to the windproof plus fast wicking drop liner format and have stayed there since even when forecast is rain.

The other thing I combine them with is a mesh base layer.  That works great at keeping any moisture away from the skin even when working hard or raining heavily.

The Alpkit Jura is much lighter than the Buffalo smock.

I did have a Montane Extreme Smock for a couple of decades but bulky , heavy and apart from really cold days too hot for me. If I took it, it’d have to be a day I’d be wearing it all day. The VR style are much more versatile and work well with an insulated over layer when stopped for any length of time.

Another option is the Mardale Pertex smock. I think Mardale went out of business years ago, but this type of garment tends to last a long time and I see that one of their smocks is on eBay.

Another point. I think the Buffalo system works best with a hood. However, the Buffalo DP hood is just weird, having a floating extra rectangle of velcro'd fabric that covers the mouth, and isn't big enough to cover a helmet. If you can get one I'd recommend pairing a Buffalo smock with a Montane Extreme smock hood instead - it fits nicely and is designed to cover a helmet.

Not tried Buffalo but it's definitely lighter than Montane equivalent which I did have (returned though as it split under the armpit after a few uses).

I tried one, and as there own thing they're probably alright but no Buffalo replacement. Three might be different types around but the one I tried had more of a microfleece lining than the deep pile I was looking for. I returned it so can't say anything about how the nylon shell would behave

I used the full Buffalo system for 3 or 4 Scottish winters when I was climbing most weekends. Big Face Shirt + Hood, HA Salopettes, Belay Jacket + Hood. I used it lots next to the skin and also with something like Helly Hansen Lifa base layers. I preferred having a base layer. I remain really unconvinced that wearing it next to the skin creates some magic, that wearing it over a good, light base doesn't.

I also found the triple system wasn't quite warm enough for long belays in cold or stormy conditions. When I got my first light-ish down jacket, an original TNF Nuptse (which I stupidly have now given to my 18 yr old son - stupidly because I've seen how much the original ones now sell for on ebay and vintage clothing websites! ) I started taking that as well when the weather was cold and windy and found it made all the difference.

Really? I've not tried one but seen them in the shop, they look really warm, but I thought possibly they were heavier than a Buffalo - more (better?) features for example. Is the pile on the Jura much lighter than Buffalo's?

Bison

Wrong, Bisons have a hump on the shoulder, Buffalos don't.

boo! The Bison is the N American Equivalent of a Buffalo and vice versa surely!

Fair enough, I've never used one. It sounds like they might suit me better than a true Buffalo or Montane smock as I run hot. Wearing my Montane one I'd often have to take it off once I was moving (ironically I bought it while I was still serving, both for climbing and use on deployments).

Thanks Andy, but it was a joke; I didn't intend it to be taken seriously.

There are European Bison as well.....

 I have a Buffalo c20 years old, a Jura 2 months old, and a Rab VR c10 years. All without hoods and size M/38, their weights are (according to a kitchen scale)

Buffalo 639g

Jura      707g

Rab      407g 

I've got the Alpkit version. Really last winter there were barely any days that were cold enough for it down South.

I'm struggling with wearing it next to the skin because I feel that means it will need washing so much more often than is good for it. (I know previously on this topic there have been comments suggesting that people hardly ever wash it, but I'd like to retain some friends).

So far I've worn it with a very thin strappy vest top which is barely more than underwear. I still got too hot walking up to Red Tarn in it a couple of weeks ago (this may be because the dog was in my rucksack) and ended up with no choice but to take it off and continue in the little vest, which I hadn't planned for but I was sweating buckets.

I do love the concept of not carrying a million layers etc and really want to make it work but on that trip I ended up carrying it much of the way anyway. It was good for warming up when I got out of Red Tarn though.

There's a company - Arktis which does the Mammouth Shirt: similar to Buffalo etc. Cheaper too.

Their Stowaway shirt is a very good and cheap windshirt. I have 2.

They are orientated towards military/police camo gear, but there is some great kit on their website. And some plain colour options. The quality is top notch.

Their B110 Combat smock is one of my favourite pieces of casual outerwear for Autumn to Spring: loads of pockets and room for warm layers. In grey, it's got street cred

i have a Mardale brand Buffalo lookalike that is still wearing well. the (preston) company seems to be still going..

https://4283-uk.all.biz/alpine-pile-system-jacket-g24987

My Mardale lasted From 1993 until last week. Pale lavender colour when it literally fell aprt in the wash.

Better than Buffalo IMO is fibre pile and a seperate pertex shell. My go to kit in the 80's was a HH jumper, you know the thing with a tail, thumb loops that was best worn inside out and a Rohan Pampas jacket. Wool jumper between on very cold days. No vest. 

I have owned a Buffalo Tecmax for over 20 years but be warned it is a very warm garment. I have used it next to the skin but prefer a thin breathable vest underneath. I have never been cold even when caught out in heavy snow which eventually got through to the skin but was warmed by body heat and was not in the least bit uncomfortable. I only wear the garment in winter and only then when it is really cold, freezing and below, and also when there is no chance of any sunny/warm periods forecast otherwise I just bake unless I open the side vents fully, which is also necessary whenever walking uphill. It is, however. very breathable and dissipates any sweat efficiently but I would never consider running in it. My overall rating would be that it is an excellent piece of kit, but for me, sadly, it doesn't get the use that it deserves.