UKH

Sorry! I did do a brief search, but couldn't find any sort of 'group test'...

Are there any clear winners for brand of big cam (Camalot 4, 5, 6 kind of size)?

Thanks in advance!

Tom

In reply to Tom Green:

No. It all differs on the flavour of coolaid ya drink. 
 

the absolute range is one thing. 
 

weight is another.

features an usability third.

single axis cams will be lighter, but will also have a tad smaller range (which IMHO is not an issue at these sizes). Twin axel designs will have better range at the cost of weight. 
 

features, some like extending slings, others prefer loop design. Each to their own. The only feature that really sets the main brands apart is the lock in contracted mode of camalots. The same feat can also be DIYd

Personally, I’d get camalots (have the older models up to 6, but also Dragons up to camalot size 4). Unless I knew I would need bigger, then AFAIK only WC has something larger (of the big brands, that is).

In reply to Tom Green:

BD camalots my fave, especially with the new lock retract system. 

I find a thumb stop (rather than a thumb loop) difficult on the DMM big cams.

G

In reply to George Frisby

Agreed. Loops do make life easier. Thanks. 

In reply to HeMa:

Good points. Especially about single axle not being that much of a disadvantage at those sizes. Thanks. 

In reply to Tom Green:

At the moment best bet is BD or DMM. WC don't make Friend 5 and 6 at the moment. Fingers crossed back soon!

In reply to Tom Green: I haven't used, but I've fondled the 5 and 6 Camalots - the folding trigger made a surprising difference for racking

In reply to Tom Green:

It's funny you should mention this, because we've been thinking about doing a sort of Big Cam 'head to head' for a while now, but hadn't quite committed to it (mostly because it would involve me having to climb a load of offwidths). That said, this has potentially spurred me on...

As McKEuan says, the Wild Country 5+6 are no longer available, so it's very much a contest between the DMM Dragon and the BD Camalot. Unlike our usual Group Tests we'd also planned to do a short video alongside it, if only because it'd be entertaining to see me climb a load of wide cracks (badly) on camera.

On that note, I better get some big cams on order.

Bugger...

In reply to HeMa:

Well, you say that, but...:

https://eu.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_GB/new-climb/camalotc421-BD26231210...

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Awesome! Look forward to it for the entertainment as much as the information!

In reply to Tom Green:

I think it'd only be appropriate to head to Brimham, as there's a fair few there - plus a whole host I haven't done.

Closer to home, I'm not sure if I can bring myself to do Right Eliminate ever again. I mistakenly gifted it to myself as a 30th birthday present, but got to the top feeling like it was my 40th (or 60th more like).  

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Might also be interesting to evaluate Big Bros v big cams ?

In reply to nufkin:

Aren't the 2 bigger sizes BD brought out recently the biggest cams available on the commercial market? 

In reply to JimR:

And if alternatives to traditional cams are tested maybe the kong Gipsy ans the largest one covers up to 8 inches.

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

*popcorn at ready* (run a poll to select your test routes?)

In reply to JimR:

Whilst the Big Bros are indeed an option, it would suffice to say that they are quite a specialist one, within an already specialist sphere.

The fact they're not available to buy within the UK, and that I've never actually seen one being used at a British crag*, further adds to my disinclination to include them. For the vast majority of our audience it will be a direct choice between the Camalot and the Dragon, as they're both readily available, and they're both good, so I think a straightforward, uncluttered head-to-head would be the best and most clear outcome.

Furthermore, I don't want to make life harder for myself than it already is. Climbing wide cracks is desperate enough even when you don't have to construct a piece of Meccano half way up it

*or maybe I have, but only once, and even then I wondered why on earth the individual in question was using them?!

In reply to vscott:

It's got to be this, hasn't it, only with a significantly less talented climber (i.e. me) and a LOT more falls: 

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2020/11/mari_augusta_salvesen_on_the_dirty_...

In reply to PaulJepson:

Yer rihgt...

I forgot those (after the April Fools giant one for Honlove). They are indeed bigger than the WC Tech ones are... and I think someone also pointed out, that they WC ones are no longer available....

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

I own the big blue Big Bro although I've yet to successfully place it! Except in the kitchen beside the fridge. Tried a few times to place it on wide granite cracks but it always seems to skid out of place. It seems to need perfectly flat, parallel walls from my limited experience and probably better suited to sandstone/gritstone. 

Eagerly waiting to get hold of a BD Camalot 7 btw but yet to find one for sale in Europe. Not sure if Corona is to blame for the poor distribution as they've been available on the US BD website for around 6 months. 

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Rob I will happily belay and provide psyche!

Boringly the main reason that Big Bros aren't in the UK is that they aren't CE rated and therefore can't be sold!

I think you should defintely test the Camelot 7 and 8 as well!

In reply to Mr. Lee:

I see you have an unused blue big bro... would you be willing to sell it? My cam #6's sometimes aren't big enough!

In reply to Euan McKendrick:

Maybe car jacks should also be included I seem to recall Haston used one on a route in Glen Coe. Whilst a 4 tonne bottle jack from halfords may be cheaper at £20 and stronger than many cams, I suspect there is a slight weight penalty But, hey, when you are wedged in yer offwidth of choice the hiss of the expanding car jack as it prises the crag apart may be a comfort

In reply to Flavio:

Doesn't seem to have slowed down your quest to apparently complete British trad climbing!

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

I've used my #4 big bro quite a few times on long very wide cracks/narrow chimneys in the US, albeit sometimes as a belay piece. It covers the range above the biggest Camelot (6). It was in a clearance sale otherwise I wouldn't have got one.

In reply to Mr. Lee:

I had the blue and green Big Bros until I was daft enough to lend them to someone on here and never got them back.  I was going through a bit of an offwidth phase at the time (not very successfully) and played with them fairly extensively on gritstone.  Same problem exactly - I hardly ever managed to find a decent placement, because it just seems so difficult to find a spot where the walls of a wide gritstone crack are perfectly parallel.

In reply to Mr. Lee:

Isn’t it an open secret these days.... that Big Bros don’t really work in the real world?

In reply to Tom Green:

The bd ones are very good. 

I've used up to the huge gold one they do. It's that big it often blocks your route inside a crack

Often use a 4 5 and 6 as we do like crack climbs 

In reply to Mr. Lee:

I have a Big Bro that is virtually unused. I have spent hours around granite boulders with nearly perfect splitter cracks and still found it almost impossible to place. I would love to have someone show me how to place them.

In reply to John Stainforth:

They can't self adjust to surface differences like cams so do take more care to place, yet I've never had a problem 'en route'. I'm guessing that's because on a wide cracks you have a lot of choice and I just chose the best looking parallel bit and checked it was engaged correctly at both ends, not rotating when loaded, and deep enough inside the crack to climb past. Small surface lumps can fit in the open ends. When used as a runner I had no other protection for a good distance each way. 

There are also the Valley Giants http://www.valleygiant.com/ which make most of the other "large" cams look relatively small. Here's a Wild County 6 compared to the two Valley Giants.

In reply to Tom Green:

How do the Wild Country 5 & 6 handle compared to the twin-axle BD & DMM big cams? I always thought WC cams felt very secure in grit. 

In reply to David Barlow:

The BD #7 & #8 are comparable to the VGs in size. They're less strong but significantly less heavy. Seem to remember they're more prone to failing if loaded at an odd angle, though.

In reply to Tom Green:

I'm a bit surprised the new BD Camalot #21 isn't out yet. They announced it way back at the start of April.

https://eu.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_GB/21-camalot.html