Best assisted-braking belay device for 2 ropes?

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 mistrelo 12 Aug 2022

Research throws up the Edelrid Giga Jul, but then there's also the Mega Jul and the Micro Jul that also take 2 ropes. I'd be interested to hear what UKCers prefer.

 CantClimbTom 12 Aug 2022
In reply to mistrelo:

Jez is a UKC'er, hopefully he'll be along to add to this, but while we're waiting for him to show up here, watch his video on Gigajul

youtube.com/watch?v=Wy2xK3qTWQc&

 jezb1 12 Aug 2022
In reply to CantClimbTom:

Thanks for sharing the link Tom!

I’ve using the Giga Jul since Outside kindly gave me one to try out.

It’s my go to device now for trad.

Still prefer a GriGri for sport, but I do use the assisted braking mode on the Giga Jul by default on trad, whilst it takes a few pitches to get used to, once you do I think it’s ace.

 CantClimbTom 12 Aug 2022
In reply to jezb1:

Wow, that was quick!

 Stegosaur 12 Aug 2022
In reply to mistrelo:

Alpine Up. It's like the Click Up but for (up to) two ropes.

1
 jezb1 12 Aug 2022
In reply to CantClimbTom:

Just in from climbing and sat on the loo 😂

 midgen 12 Aug 2022
In reply to mistrelo:

Gigajul works great with half ropes, but doesn't work great with fat furry single gym ropes, they're a real pain to drag through it. 

It's my main, and would probably be my only belay device if I didn't already own a grigri, which I slightly prefer for sport. 

I like the way the gigajul abseils in assisted mode on skinny half ropes, nice and smooth and locks securely. It's grabby and not pleasant on fat ropes. 

Basically, gets a thumbs up from me if you're using skinny half ropes! 

​​​

 wbo2 12 Aug 2022
In reply to mistrelo:  What they say.  Gigajul works well for me, better with skinny, not furry ropes, but you don't need much practice before you can feed ok.   Works ok in guide mode.  Not the smoothest for abseiling. 

 TobyA 12 Aug 2022
In reply to jezb1:

Did you use the MegaJul before the Giga Jul Jez?

I've been getting out climbing a fair amount over the last three weeks that I've been in Finland (home tomorrow...   boo hoo). I wanted to bring the lightest of everything for climbing I could and with the Edelrid slider HMS it's by far the lightest belay set up I have. I started using it just before I left Finland to move back to the UK which is now 8 years back! So I've had and used it now for well over 8 years. I still think it's a brilliant belay device, whether using it for sport climbing on a single or trad climbing with double ropes. I've used it for winter climbing a fair amount too. My 2016 review is at https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/climbing/belays/edelrid_mega_jul-6739

I use my Grigri mainly for sport climbing these days, but that's mainly because it makes me look the part - my climbing certainly doesn't! But the Mega Jul can do the things the grigri can for like a 10th of the weight and maybe a third of the price? Plus of course it works on double ropes.

I've toyed with buying a Giga Jul just to see if it's better at all, but never quite felt the need to spend the cash. Am I missing out?

 rgold 13 Aug 2022
In reply to mistrelo:

If you want something for half ropes, i.e. in situations requiring one rope to be paid out while the other is taken in, then the CT Alpine Up is the best in my opinion.  Handling is mostly intuitive and you don't tie up the brake hand levering the device when pumping slack. It doesn't break as the various Jules have been prone to do.  Rapelling is ok and doesn't require a third hand prusik backup.  Use on the anchor in guide mode is fair.  My experience is almost entirely with 8.5mm half ropes.  The device isn't good for fatter single ropes and I don't really know how thin you can go.

The single-rope version, the click-up, beat out the gri-gri in UKC tests a while back.

2
 Derek Furze 13 Aug 2022
In reply to mistrelo:

I use the Giga Jul for everything.  It does get a bit grabby with furry ropes, but does specify 10mm as the maximum.  Fantastic for trad in either mode.  Brilliant for abseiling on harness loop with assisted mode.  Great for sport.

Friends use Mega Jul which is lighter, but locks a lot when abseiling and needs a particular technique to be smooth.

 whenry 13 Aug 2022
In reply to mistrelo:

There was quite a bit of discussion on the Mega Jul a few years ago on here: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/gear/edelrid_mega_jul-638509

I've got one, and rarely use it these days - it can be very sticky paying out, and also has fairly poor braking power.

 oldie 13 Aug 2022
In reply to whenry:

Interestingly I think that's the first time braking power has been mentioned in this thread. The most important function of the device. Perhaps most of them are superior to a tube anyway? Speaking as someone who doesn't own an assisted device but often considers doing so.

 jezb1 13 Aug 2022
In reply to mistrelo:

I only used the mega jul a little bit, I didn't really get on with it, felt pretty grabby and unpleasant.

 bpmclimb 14 Aug 2022
In reply to jezb1:

Hi Jez. I noticed that the UKC Giga Jul review says that you would normally abseil in manual mode, because abseiling in assisted mode, although possible, is "stiff and difficult to feed the rope through". Do you find that at all? Asking because I'm interested in the device, but as I do so many abseil descents, a large part of the selling point for me would be removing the need for back-up prussik. Thanks.

 midgen 14 Aug 2022
In reply to bpmclimb:

I use it in assisted mode on my 8.4mm half ropes and it feeds really smooth and controllably, and locks very securely, I'm well happy hanging on it self-locked.

On thick single ropes though, it's grabby and really hard to lower smoothly, and you have to really put a lot of effort into pushing it to unlock, it's knackering on anything but short pitches.

 AlanLittle 14 Aug 2022
In reply to rgold:

I too prefer the unfashionable Alpine Up to the Megajul, but I'm sure that's just a question of what I'm used to. My brief attempt to use the Megajul for single rope belaying for sport was a fiasco due to my grigri-educated muscle memory of feeding the rope from the side rather than from the front

(Presumably I too will now be "disliked" by the cretin who appears to be automatically clicking the down arrow on every post that expresses an opinion slightly different from their own)

8
 bpmclimb 14 Aug 2022
In reply to midgen:

> On thick single ropes though, it's grabby and really hard to lower smoothly, and you have to really put a lot of effort into pushing it to unlock, it's knackering on anything but short pitches.

So when accessing routes by abseil on a separate abseil rope, it'd be back to manual mode plus prusik (or even use of a different device, if the ab rope is a thick one).

 midgen 14 Aug 2022
In reply to bpmclimb:

Yep. It does work,  you can ab with it and it locks securely,  but I think you'd quickly get annoyed with it and decide a prussik was preferable. My experience,  and seems to be the consensus.

 jezb1 14 Aug 2022
In reply to bpmclimb:

I find it fine in assisted mode abbing and have done on loads of ropes from skinny to chunky statics. It takes a couple of abs to find the sweet spot though.

That said it’s assistance reduces the less weight that’s underneath it, so as you get closer to the floor it will slip to some extent, in my experience.

Post edited at 12:44
 helix 14 Aug 2022
In reply to mistrelo:

I really like the Giga Jul, using it for trad belaying, but I have found it too grippy when abbing, even on ropes that are not thick and furry, so have resorted to normal mode + prussik 

 TobyA 14 Aug 2022
In reply to midgen:

> I use it in assisted mode on my 8.4mm half ropes and it feeds really smooth and controllably, and locks very securely, I'm well happy hanging on it self-locked.

> On thick single ropes though, it's grabby and really hard to lower smoothly, and you have to really put a lot of effort into pushing it to unlock, it's knackering on anything but short pitches.


Very very similar experiences with the mega jul. In "assisted mode" (normal belaying orientation) you put another krab on the "beak" hole to use as a handle. On double half ropes this works great. It will lock securely if you let it go. But on two fat ropes it is a total pain as you have to almost force feed the rope through. I did it without thinking last week abing down a slap on a doubled over single rope. I actually clipped into a bolt I was passing and swapped the orientation of the mega jul to the less grabby way and abbed down as normal that way. I would normally use a prussik as with any other ATC like device in that orientation, although didn't last week as it was a short ab in controlled situation.

OP mistrelo 14 Aug 2022
In reply to mistrelo:

Thanks everyone. Persuasive arguments for Giga Jul and Alpine Up on here, Jez's vid and in this thread: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/gear/alpine_up_or_giga_jul-739081

I'm torn between the two. Seems like maybe the Alpine Up brakes more effectively and works better feeding ropes independently. But there's a lot of happy customers of the Giga Jul. I'm after something that my belayer (who is a fair bit lighter than me) can use to belay me on 8.5mm half ropes. Grigri works fine for this purpose with a single rope. Not that bothered about abseiling performance or weight.

OP mistrelo 14 Aug 2022
In reply to mistrelo:

Thanks everyone. Persuasive arguments for Giga Jul and Alpine Up on here, Jez's vid and in this thread: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/gear/alpine_up_or_giga_jul-739081

I'm torn between the two. Seems like maybe the Alpine Up brakes more effectively and works better feeding ropes independently. But there's a lot of happy customers of the Giga Jul. I'm after something that my belayer (who is a fair bit lighter than me) can use to belay me on 8.5mm half ropes. Grigri works fine for this purpose with a single rope. Not that bothered about abseiling performance or weight.

OP mistrelo 14 Aug 2022
In reply to AlanLittle:

> I too prefer the unfashionable Alpine Up to the Megajul, but I'm sure that's just a question of what I'm used to. My brief attempt to use the Megajul for single rope belaying for sport was a fiasco due to my grigri-educated muscle memory of feeding the rope from the side rather than from the front

> (Presumably I too will now be "disliked" by the cretin who appears to be automatically clicking the down arrow on every post that expresses an opinion slightly different from their own)

You might already know but you can hide the vote counter thingy in User Options > Forums. Come on in, the water's lovely

 Cheese Monkey 14 Aug 2022
In reply to mistrelo:

Absolutely love the mega jul personally. It does take a fair amount of time to get used to but once you do it is great. I use it for everything.

 bpmclimb 14 Aug 2022
In reply to Cheese Monkey:

Have you tried it with a fat static (11mm)? Would you be able to push the rope through and then abseil successfully in assisted mode?

 Cheese Monkey 14 Aug 2022
In reply to bpmclimb:

Yes. It does the job but frankly it's not great as it will lock very easily on fat rope. I've been using a mega jul since they came out and it's a minor issue tbh. Also you can use the nose of a carabiner in the little hole for extra leverage (by design). I've needed to do it a few times, mostly when abseiling on doubled static or very furry old stiff crap. If we get out before you decide you're welcome to try mine!

 pdone 15 Aug 2022
In reply to mistrelo:

There is a fairly comprehensive discussion of the 'Juls' assisted locking devices on this link

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/109133730/edelrid-megajul-belay...

 CantClimbTom 25 Aug 2022
In reply to mistrelo:

Wow, Jez is clearly one of those (annoying ) over-achievers in life, he's only gone any made an updated Giga Jul video, I think specially for you mistrelo?

youtube.com/watch?v=NzG68z5nxoI&

 beardy mike 25 Aug 2022
In reply to mistrelo:

Another advocate of the Alpine-up - I have a second one now after using my original for around 8 years now. I tried a Megajul and really disliked it - gets really hot when abseiling and stays hot because of the stainless steel and just didn't find the way it feeds intuitive at all. The up is bulky and a bit weighty, and you have to use the correct carabiner for it, but other than that I love it. Also provides significantly more braking power than the Jul according to Jim Titt who has tested most belay devices.

 wbo2 25 Aug 2022
In reply to beardy mike:

What's special about the karabiner?

 Stegosaur 25 Aug 2022
In reply to wbo2:

> What's special about the karabiner?

Like the Click Up, it needs to be used with an HMS carabiner with 12mm round bar stock. Climbing Technology supplies it bundled with their Concept carabiner.

Post edited at 17:25
OP mistrelo 26 Aug 2022
In reply to CantClimbTom:

> Wow, Jez is clearly one of those (annoying ) over-achievers in life, he's only gone any made an updated Giga Jul video, I think specially for you mistrelo?

That video popped up on my youtube recommendations and I did wonder if this thread had prompted it!

 jezb1 26 Aug 2022
In reply to mistrelo:

> That video popped up on my youtube recommendations and I did wonder if this thread had prompted it!

It's been on the to do list a while but thanks for the prompt..!

 beardy mike 26 Aug 2022
In reply to wbo2:

Two things, it's coated to reduce wear as the ups tend to concentrate wear in one spot, and secondly the shape is quite critical for the up, both to thread it into the various holes and also to lock smoothly. With the click up you can get away with a round bar carabiner, not so much the alpine up. Hence why they only sell them as a set.

 David Coley 30 Aug 2022
In reply to mistrelo:

I've used the gigajul and like it's weight and ease of threading. But it seems to really like the ropes to be stacked neatly as your thumb and hand will be in the device. I find this hard to achieve sometimes on multipitch. The hand action is also different to a normal plate to it doesn't reinforce those actions. 

I use that alpine up frequently. The action is same as a plate, it can put up with just any mess, but it hates thicker half ropes like many triple rated ones. Total pita to thread.

I use the revo for single ropes. Love it. But another pita to thread. 

1
 rgold 31 Aug 2022
In reply to David Coley:

I'm convinced about the superiority of the Alpine Up, but David is right; it doesn't like a pair of half ropes much bigger than 8.5mm and it is indeed a pita to thread, especially if you are fighting rope weight while doing it.  There's also a dangerous goof if you clip the two inserted bights but fail to capture the slot in the device, which means the device isn't connected to the carabiner and can slide up the rope.

These things notwithstanding, I still think it is the best thing for half rope handling.

1
 beardy mike 31 Aug 2022
In reply to rgold:

Have you tried it in winter when you have gloves on? REALLY hard to thread...

 rgold 31 Aug 2022
In reply to beardy mike:

Mike, no, haven't tried it in winter.  I've used it with light gloves of the sort one uses for mild summer alpine conditions.  I can't say it seemed any harder with those.

 David Coley 31 Aug 2022
In reply to beardy mike:

> Have you tried it in winter when you have gloves on? REALLY hard to thread...

I'd not use it in winter. I'd end up dropping it. 

 rgold 31 Aug 2022
In reply to David Coley:


Yes, dropping is a potential problem, although I never have...   If there is anything challenging about the situation, the device is easily tethered to the harness using the hole intended for suspending it when in guide mode.  The tether does not interfere with use.

 David Coley 01 Sep 2022
In reply to rgold:

That sounds a neat idea


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