UKH

This next week sees another player in the intelligent fabrics market. Accapi UK is a company set up by two North-East based climbers George Heydon and Steve Roberts.

Accapi uses Nexus Energy Source that omits a natural infra-red and, it is claimed, can increase athletic performance and recovery. Mick Ryan reports.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/news.php?id=2242

In reply to UKC Gear: A question for someone who knows a lot more than me.

"What this infra-red omitting clothing does is to increase the viscosity of the blood, which means that it flows quicker "

I thought have thought that a more viscous liquid would flow slower - i.e. golden syrup compared to water, or is blood different?

Friends have used similar products and have been impressed, so I'm not suggesting they don't work, I'm just curious about that statement. Anyone shed some light?
Cheers
Jamie

In reply to UKC Gear:

"In the product range are also Photinizer water bottle covers. Apparently infra-red can also increase hydration by de-clustering water molecules so that the body can more easily absorb water."

Does anyone proof read these adverts before they run as news? There's so much bullshit psudoscience in that it's beyond a joke. Has April 1st come early?

So if this fabric is emitting IR, what powers it? Shorter wavelength radiation (under the rest of your clothing!?)? Batteries? Lay lines?

Are we going to be getting news about homeopathic remedies for pulley injuries next? Maybe crystal energy healing socks for broken ankles?

jk

In reply to jamie84:


The mind in conjunction with a bit of marketing crap and a couple of 'celebrity' endorsements can be a powerful thing.

jk

In reply to Removed User:

Corrected: should be emitting.

Yes, some grand claims, hence why we have three well qualified people testing these products, including Craig Smith..

http://www.manchester.ac.uk/research/craig.smith/personaldetails

In reply to UKC Gear: Can you please post some links to the 'lots of scientific research' that the company has carried out? Or at least give us the details of any peer-assessed journal papers or similar that they have published?

In reply to Sean_J:

We are supplying the research to Craig, Jon and Donna. Then if they are made available online we will link.

In reply to Sean_J: I'm loving the 'interactive socks'. Might be nice on those cold lonely mornings with no one else to talk to.

In reply to jkarran: Indeed, though this is the first time I've come across this IR emitting idea. The only previous products I've seen are recovery tights/socks etc but they don't claim that they "emit" anything.

Reminds me a bit of the skinny water nonsense:
http://www.skinnywater.co.uk/

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Sorry Mick. If they're going to make claims like that they have to be backed up by serious science, not just a handful of 'well qualified' reviewers. That advert is plain and simple nonsense with a paid celebrity endorsement.

It's probably very good underwear but the claims made and the presentation are laughable.

jk

In reply to UKC Gear:

Do you need to supply your own magnets?

In reply to UKC Gear: Nexus Energy Source Fibre

http://www.nexus-es.it/eng/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&i...

It absorbs water more than cotton (no mention of it's silk equivalent - that makes me suspicious).

It is known to be branded as Vivtex - we can look for peer review articles from this

http://www.mamut.net/vivitex/vivitex,_nexus_the_revolutionary_fiber.pdf

Although I'm not too confident when things like the following are said without citation


The beneficial results obtained by Nexus Energy Source has been established as a superior source
of energy than those obtained with any other fiber, including the last generation health related
products. This fiber has been analyzed and certified by United States Federal Food and Drug
Administration (FDA), recognized as the most important world-wide inspection body.

and

FDA is nothing special.


Nexus Energy Source fiber ¡§derived¡¨ garments, (VivitexÆÊ) allow the body to enhance the function
water carries out in every biological process of our respiratory system, due its unique combination
of elements. This the reorganization of the energy field, breaking the links between the water
macromolecule and producing molecules which are able to be work as cleansers and healers
through our entire cellular structure. Nexus Energy Source, thanks to its three natural elements
(titanium, platinum and aluminum), permits the living organism to bring back its correct state from
a phase of imbalance to a balanced one, giving the molecules renewed energy with quantum
magnetic charges. This becomes a constant action in ones body which partially explains an early
healing effect so many first time users report.

Nexus Energy Source allows a regulating action on metabolism and cellular respiration, a thermo-
regulating action, an anti-inflammatory and anti-painful action and an anti-bacterial and anti-
phlogiston action. Nexus Energy Source induces a considerable decrease of fat acid par-oxidation
and makes blood more fluid carrying out an improvement in the blood fluidity. Thus blood moves
easier to organs and tissues assuring a better oxygenation. Some analyses have been made to show
that blood fluidity improves unequivocally. (After being placed on a cloth containing Nexus Energy
Source fiber, blood becomes more fluid and easily flows through a capillary vessel giving much
more oxygen to the tissues. Therefore you can readily expect this fiber to make an important
contribution in the health of difficult subjects, :i.e: seniors with arteriosclerosis hyper-tension and
other age related problems.

So place fluid on a cloth proves it can do internal body metabolism changes?

No peer review citations in this article.

http://www.medi-direct.co.uk/pdfs/Texup%20supports.pdf

No citation again in this article.

I will bow down and agree with the claims if I can also read the details of how it was proven, how many studies were carried out, test criteria etc.

But good luck to the chaps with their new company.

GBPCG

In reply to jkarran:

Is it dodgy science, or dodgy translation from Italian promotional material?

Blood may well increase in viscosity with heating; it wouldn't be the normal behaviour for the water content of blood, but then again there's so much else dissolved in blood that it'd be hard to predict the behaviour without doing some SCIENCE on it.

Water will "cluster" but needs something with a permanent or transient charge to cause it to do so, e.g. a dissolved ion or active site of a protein.

As for fabrics emitting IR, that's not something i'd question at a fundamental level either. Rub your shirt against your jumper for a while, now apart from the static electricity generated, you'll feel warm from the friction. That warmth you feel is IR radiation......

The pseudo-science bit is claiming to have made a fabric that is of measureable benefit of the user??

Like all science; the jury is out until some evidence is produced and then peer-reviewed.

In reply to jamie84:

>

That confused me as well - surely it should read "to decrease the viscosity of the blood"? That presumably is like staying well hydrated to stay warm or even taking aspirin to help keep your toes warm when winter climbing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

Ok, i take that back.

What a load of mumbo jumbo pseudo science bolx. "Quantum magnetic charges"!!
Who cares what direction the electrons in your water molecules are facing; heat energy will mix them all back up again in an instant!

The field strength necessary to hold water in one magnetic state or another would be strong enough to disrupt a pacemaker; these fabrics should come with a health warning!

In reply to ally smith: TBH the most offensive think about the article is the gratuitous lunchboxing.

In reply to UKC Gear:

Very competitive pricing, I notice. £170 for a long-sleeve baselayer...

http://www.accapi.co.uk/products/active_apparel/index.html

I'll be very interested to see what Craig says about these claims - he certainly won't be in a position to verify them.

Mick, your article says that studies claim that this fabric (not far infrared technology in general) can have therapeutic benefits. Have you asked Accapi to provide these studies so you can cite them properly? - I'm sure if they've carried out worthwhile tests, they would be able to provide you with some details.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

And if they make positive comments about the stuff, the manufacturer will no doubt refer to it as a "study".

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Are these 3 people going to check out the claims in the article?

It says they emit infra red radiation. Physics dept at Sheffield Uni might be able to detect this strange new energy source?

In reply to Martin76:

They say they have lots of evidence. I'm no scientist, hence why I asked Donna, Jon and Craig to have a look. We'll get hold of all the scientific papers.

Lots of media have reported on this fabric in the UK.

Jon Doran at the OM

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article/mps/uan/6442

Jon Bruford

http://www.sgb-sports.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/3603/Outdoors_-_October_20...

and John Traynor,Editor, Outdoor Review...can't find the link

Ally, did you pull your post to edit it or has someone restricted my ability to post, every time I try to reply to someone on this thread I get a 'No such post exists' or similar error message.

I wrote you this:

In reply to ally smith:


It's pretty formulaic stuff: Big claim, bofins, semi credible 'science' surrounded in impressive jargon, unpublished research etc. You could be right about the translation but I'm not feeling that generous.


I wouldn't dispute that hot blood is thicker (I'd maybe question faster flowing) but the implication that the inclusion of some high-tech precious-metals by Japanese bofins causes this fabric to heat you up more than other fabrics. Or at the very least (and not really what's implied in the ad) it'll keep you warmer than a like for like fabric without the 'wizardry'.


So their bottle jacket claim boils down to hot water is less dense ('clustered'), our fabric bottle warmer keeps your water warm (I'm being generous, the implication is it 'makes' the water warm).


I know pretty much everything emits IR. The implication is that this emits more via some mysterious technical wizardry involving some impressive sounding metals. As for the 'energy' field bullshit. Ok, so again, pretty much everything will disturb an electromagnetic field. Claiming that your product does it in a beneficial way is pushing at the edges of credibility.


That and the invocation of the Japanese bofins, the unavailable (I'll bet irrelevant) 'research' etc etc.

I realise that tackled individually there's weasel room on each of the claims but it doesn't change the fact the advert (for it certainly isn't 'news') as presented is a joke.


Indeed. I'll apologist if they have some serious credible, research to back up their claims of increased performance. In fact I guess I'll be in trouble for liable. I'm not overly concerned.

I know what you're saying and I'm not having a pop at you but this sort of crap (the advert, not your post) winds me up.

jk

In reply to Removed User:

Too right. I just got some quite questioning looks from my work collegues after clicking through to the article and using "I'm just reading an article on IR emmitting performance sports clothing" as an excuse isn't exactly realistic.

In reply to jkarran: 2 words..

Laboratoire Garnier

In reply to Removed User:

"dermatologically tested"

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Cheers. You're certainly not wrong to report the stuff, especially as the other sites are firing away with it. But it's like they've had a bit of a free hit with no real scrutiny or balancing comment here.

I can't believe they've managed to test the product in such a way that they can separate the effects of a tight fitting fabric alone from the claimed additional benefits of their infrared emitting fabric. That would be a colossal exercise. So I suspect they'll fall back on either some small scale anecdotal reviews, or bigger studies looking at the effects of far infrared on blood viscosity in heart patients or the like.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:


Love the link

Evidence?

Most of the evidence produced by Accapi is anecdotal. In particular, top Italian mountaineer Simone Moro slept under a Nexus sheet for a month and claims that it reduces his night time resting heart rate by five beats per minute.

In reply to jkarran:

Agree with everythng you said; especially now i've seen some more of their "advertising" material.

Pulled the post and editted a spelling mistake - might be why you can't reply to it.

In reply to UKC Gear:
Brilliant, this has made my morning. Nothing like some entertaining pseudo science to wake you up. I don't doubt for a second that this product can increase athletic performance, I think the correct term is "The placebo effect".

In reply to ally smith: Here's a good one

http://www.nexus-es.it/eng/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&i...

By changing the textile surface they can make the water 'wetter'.

Sorry to say - using fabric softerner on your towel can produce the same.

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:
Isn't wet in the context of something ability to wet something spelt whet?
"The whetting agent meant the surface ended up wetter."

Apologies for pedantry

In reply to UKC Gear: great chance for a science debate!

First thing, it seems that it is widely accepted that IR penetration into skin is limited to around 5 mm at most (e.g. this is claimed by IR lamp manufaturers), so any effect is going to be happening at the surface of the body, then again I guess applying ice/heat topically / has a similar response, so this is not a stopper.

The most interesting thing is the emission claim. Would be very interested to see what mechanism is proposed for this. All objects emmit IR due to their temperature (including our bodies!) anyway, so presuambly an "extra" emmision effect is being claimed for the clothing beyond that due to its temperature. The only explanation I can think of is that the metals in the fabric are claimed to absorb light falling on them in frequencies other than IR, them and re-emmit at a frequency in the IR region, so basically increase the proportion of light in the IR region, like a fluorescence effect. In this case the IR generation will obviously be limited by the incident light, so it will work less well at night, or coverred by other clothes(!?). It should be relatively straightfoward to demonstrate this effect using spectroscopy.

Personally I would imagine that if this effect is shown to happen, the amount of extra IR emmision demonstrated would be very small, well below the IR intensities that have been established to have theraputic effects, such as IR lamps.

Would be interested if this is the way the fabric is meant to work, or if there is another idea, and if there are spectroscopic data on the fabric.
As someone said above, the energy to make the IR has got to come from somewhere...

In reply to Reach>Talent:

I thought "whet" meant to sharpen. Like you would do with a "whetstone".

In reply to Sankey:

I was hoping someone with a bit of knowledge would post on this part of the issue.

If they provide trial data from so-called IR 'saunas', which have been used for cardiovascular patients, then they need to show that their IR can be produced (as a baselayer), and is sufficient to reach the right physiology under the skin layer.

One piece of 'evidence' on the Nexus website appears to involve volunteers wearing normal clothing, with some having a layer of this fabric on top.

http://www.accapi.co.uk/products/active_apparel/index.html

The write-up is appalling guff, but appears to claim some kind of physiological change, which seems impossible given the layers of other fabric the IR would have to penetrate.

In reply to Reach>Talent:


to wet - make wet
to whet - sharpen

as in 'to whet your appetite'.

In reply to Martin76: Just thinking about it pratically, how is a piece of fabric with day-light/indoor lighting falling on it going to get anything close to the IR flux from a bulb plugged into the mains...that is the bottom line.

In reply to Sankey: Best I can find at mo for research is a bit on Nexus website where they use a Malvern laser.

Other is the research from the 1950's on space clothing that reflected heat back to the astronaut to keep them warm - this was an aluminium based technology and produced the Moonbag - if anyone remembers them. The critical note for that technology was you needed to do something to get your heat given off to reflect back to the skin.

In reply to Martin76:
I've encountered 'whet' in the context of agrochemical adjuvants, where they are talking about the ability of the agent to reduce the surface tension. Could be a very specialised misuse of the term I suppose?

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat: I found that, an unlabelled graph with two similar curves, one looking very smooth. The instrument they did that experiment on a Malvern Zeta-sizer is used for particle sizing usually. Couldn't read the italian lab report to see what they claim.

In reply to Reach>Talent:

Could well be an 'established misuse', which will eventually become a 'use'!

Two almost opposite definitions for the same word would be fun, as in:

"I come to whet your already blunted purpose" from Hamlet..

In reply to Sankey: Read the report - it said there were findings and it should be explored more to define any benefits or something like that.

In reply to Sankey:

It isn't, I assume that if there is any measurable increase in IR then it is very small. The fact it is useless is beside the point, just look at the number of face creams that contain Vitamin A or Pro-retinol, the quantity that you are legally allowed to add is an order of magnitude below the level at which it is actually effective:
They claim the product has a beneficial effect and claim a mechanism that gives such an effect, they don't claim that the two are linked. So for instance Age defying moisturiser with pro-retinol fights the signs of ageing. It is actually a sunscreen effect that reduces ageing and not the pro-retinol content but no-one actually notices this.
In this case they are probably exploiting the same physical improvements in circulation caused by tightly supporting the muscle and pointing to some science which may have a similar effect, however in this case they have cocked up and claimed something unjustifiable.

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:


LOL. What a surprise

Is there a pamphlet these people/companies/snake-oil-salesmen use to put this sort of thing together or do they all arrive at the same formula by natural selection, afterall... as a sales patter it obviously works.

jk

In reply to jkarran: it says - Consideration - The outcome of the analysis suggests a necessity for a more indepth study in order to estimate the mobilisation of the particles using various and more suitable methodical analytics.

So the test was not the most appropriate - not the right kit.

In reply to Removed User:

And that from a poster called hardonicus too!!

Italian marketing bullshit is a rare species all to itself.

In reply to Reach>Talent: Agree, these people are experts in sailing as close to the wind as possible. Tempted to grab a piece of this stuff from my housemate who is one of the testers, and unleash the power of the Sheffield Physics department on it! Don't think I will get a grant for that however...

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

sooo.. are we saying that this baselayer reflects IR energy back to the body, increasing metabolic processes? That's basic collision/kinetic theory, right?

Surely the same benefits could be gathered from wearing any warm base layer? Or am I missing something?

In reply to jesatu:

You'd be missing the best part of £250 if you kit yourself out in them...

In reply to MeMeMe:


No, but bring your own tinfoil hat...

It has been suggested that veracity of claims on websites are not subject to the same degree of proof as those in adverts, so a manufacturer can write a whole load of BS with impunity, provided they don't repeat those claims in their adverts. I'd welcome comments from anyone who has a grasp on the legalities of such things.

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/forummessages/mps/UTN/33150/URN/2/dt/1/s...

In reply to Sankey:

Get it done.

In reply to jamie84:

All clothing emits IR radiation between 4-14 microns (peak about 10) - or at least it does if it is on the earth at normal temperature...

In reply to UKC Gear:

This blurb describing the Nexus material is a load of old rubbish. If you actually read what it says, it doesn't make any sense.

My favorite sentences being:
"Water is most readily used when built into three molecule groups" and "Nexus aligns the water molecule on an intracellular level."

So not only is this material keeping you warmer by reflection (a technology around since the introduction of foil blankets, and I am not sure how effective a material woven with metal fibres will be compared to the same material without metal fibres), it is arranging our water molecules at a intracellular level!

Ignoring the fact that intrallcelluar scales are in the order of micrometres, and molecules are in the order of angstroms (10,000 x smaller). Water is a polar molecule, it has variations in charge over it, and aligns itself already forming hydrogen bonds. So this material is overcoming the hydrogen bonds forming between the water molecules.....

Basically I could list why this is a load of rubbish for ever, but it is a waste of everyone's time, all I can say this is a load of rubbish, dressed up with scientific words, to try and get money out of gullible people.

In reply to BIgYeti86:

And given that is so clearly bullshit aren't there some other gear companies more deserving of a write up?

Maybe some that aren't trying to con anyone?

In reply to Swig:

I'm sure most companies don't try and con anyone, however this one is using pseudo-science to try and sell expensive clothes to gullible people.

In reply to Swig:

Gear page is here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/

Split into Product News, Outdoor Industry News, and Gear reviews: every item is open to comment, has a forum thread attached to it.

In reply to johnSD:


I don't think anyone's disputing that though I for one probably haven't been pedantic enough when proofreading my posts so feel free to quote my mistakes back at me

The implication in the advert (and I'll say it again, it is an advert, *not* news. I hope they're paying you Mick) is that it emits extra IR.

Anyone: Is it made clear anywhere what the fibers actually are? Somewhere above there's a link to a laughable pdf that implies they're made (entirely one is left to presume) from natural* Al, Ti and Pt. They appear to be very fine and hollow in the picture (assuming the picture is in any way related). I'd be extremely surprised if they're hollow titanium alloy fibers, I bet it's a polyamide with a thin metalic coating or metalic particle inclusions.

*out of curiosity where do metallic aluminium and titanium occur naturally?

jk

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

I appreciate that but some very basic level of vetting perhaps.

I suspect any one of your testers could have told you the spiel was nonsense (and jeopardise their free baselayer?!)

In reply to jesatu:

No, my findings are on technology decades back on how to efficiently heat astronauts which has a tenuous link but I've not found direct links to the current claim.

In reply to Swig:

If I was being offered a free £140 baselayer I make sure I'd got my hands on it before slagging it off.

In reply to galpinos: and types with scientific knowledge : would Ben Goldacre approve ?

http://www.badscience.net/

In reply to jkarran:

Don't worry - was backing you up, not correcting you.. Have since read all the way through and realised lots of other people already made the same point...

As to the point that it somehow emits "extra" IR, surely (again, I'm just agreeing with previous posts) all that equates to is that is is somehow "warmer" than equivalent baselayers, or something... I'll not hold my breath as to how or why this is any more effective than wearing any other warm clothes for the health and recovery issues... But as a lightweight thermal base layer they should have a marketable product, if they get the price right...

In reply to UKC Gear:

In your blurb you state that compression garments "... compress the muscles which enhances circulation leading to better recovery and a reduction in lactic acid build up."

A carefully worded sentence which gives the impression that wearing a compression garment will enable you to train harder or climb harder over a prolonged period of time. This is unlikely. Compression garments have a subjective effect (decreased post-exercise soreness in some trials) but have been shown to have no effect on objective measures of athletic performance or recovery. Blood lactate may be removed more quickly but rest alone will return blood lactate to baseline levels well within the normal time period between athletic training sessions so this is an irrelevant finding.

In reply to TobyA:

I do hope so - winter climbing is hazardous enough without adding the danger of stroke due to hyperviscosity induce by your shreddies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperviscosity_syndrome

In reply to Paul Atkinson:


At the price they're charging you'd hope their shreddies do give you a bit of a stroke... then maybe a back rub and a cup of tea

jk

In reply to galpinos:

The three testers are independent of Accapi and of UKClimbing.com. They are intelligent and no bullshit people.

When asked, they kindly said they would wear the stuff and report back, and look at any evidence.

Craig in particular was sceptical and mentioned in conversation with me many of the criticism already mentioned in this thread. But he has an open mind.

Also there are many intelligent people out there who have already commented and will do I'm sure when the reviews are published....which anyone can comment on.

I'm just doing my job, which is to serve our readers and outdoor companies, without either UKClimbing.com would not be here. That's the reality.

Cheers,

Mick

In reply to Sankey:
"Tempted to grab a piece of this stuff from my housemate who is one of the testers, and unleash the power of the Sheffield Physics department on it!"

Please do, I'd be quite interested to see some comparisons of this wonder fabric with some other common baselayer materials. Uni research departments never give a monkeys what you run through their kit as long as you don't burn the place down.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

And a very good one at that.

I don't think anyone is critical of the product (irrespective of price) nor the people starting to sell it. It is the current evidence of "pseudoscience" we have an interest to comment on. If there is suitable peer review and or patent application (which then passes) or third party independent scientific evidence to support the claims I will certainly shut up.

The science being claimed comes across as a product placement strategy to differentiate from similar products which makes me think there is more marketing than science influencing it - this for us scientists makes it disappointing. In a perfect world, if the claims are correct then we will be proud to admire the technology and the scientific advancement.

GBPCG

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

I know all that Mick. If I didn't like the site and think you did a good job I would waste half my life on here! It was just an off the cuff comment.

The thing is, the testers, despite their backgrounds, will not be able to give us anymore than anecdotal evidence on the products, which is what most of the information on the website is already. Their findings will obviously be independent (more so than the website mentioned athletes) but it still

a)will not explain how the fabric works and the actual effect on the body in real scientific terms as opposed to the pseudo-science tosh in the promotional material

b) will not provide us with decent research as to whether these claimed benefits actually happen in real life, not just on paper.

I don't expect UKC to provide this research, I just feel that a lot of people on this site are reasonably knowledgeable/active in many scientific/engineering/biological fields and don't really appreciate the absolute gibberish of the promotional material.