Abseil extension/clove hitch question

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 Barney Smith 27 Aug 2020

I've got a peztl connect adjust  which I'm a big fan of (I know its a gimmick and I can just use the rope/slings, but its a convenient gimmick that makes life easier). 

I've got the single version, and there's this good trick for abseil extensions that i'm using: clove hitch your abseil carabiner/plate about halfway up the rope, then you've got an attachment to the wall and a good abseil extension at the minor cost of losing a bit of adjustability. Currently i'm tying this clove hitch on when I'm already at the top setting for the ab, but its a bit finnicky and borderline impossible if you can't unweight the far attachment point. My question is, could I just leave the carabiner clove hitched on semi permanently (i.e have it hitched while climbing, anchor building etc), or is there some reason this would be a bad idea that i'm missing?

see first picture if you're having a hard time imagining the setup from my mediocre description: https://www.karstendelap.com/blog/rappel-extensions

cheers in advance

 jezb1 27 Aug 2020
In reply to Barney Smith:

You could, personally I wouldn’t as it ends up a bit messy giving something extra in the way.

 bpmclimb 27 Aug 2020
In reply to Barney Smith:

> I've got the single version, and there's this good trick for abseil extensions that i'm using: clove hitch your abseil carabiner/plate about halfway up the rope, then you've got an attachment to the wall and a good abseil extension at the minor cost of losing a bit of adjustability. 

I'm not convinced it's such a good trick (despite looking quite nifty in the photo). The whole point of an adjustable lanyard is to be able to get snug on the anchors with a quick and simple operation. You're going to the trouble (and expense) to gain that advantage, only to reintroduce a significant amount slack in order to fiddle around with a crab and clove hitch.

Personally, I don't like having a sling or lanyard larksfooted to my belay loop at all, especially on the lead - it confuses things visually, and there's the risk of tangles with gear and quickdraws. To add an in situ clove hitch and crab to that already inconvenient front-of-harness clutter seems to me a particularly bad idea.

2
 ebdon 27 Aug 2020
In reply to Barney Smith:

Alpine butterfly, then you wouldn't need the caribiner there permanently? 

 jezb1 27 Aug 2020
In reply to ebdon:

> Alpine butterfly, then you wouldn't need the caribiner there permanently? 

Takes up too much of the lanyard’s length in my experience.

 C Witter 27 Aug 2020
In reply to Barney Smith:

It seems like a lot of faff to carry around one of those Petzl thingys, just for an abseil. Nevermind all the rest. I'd prefer to carry something with multiple uses, e.g. a sling. And I don't like climbing with a lanyard wrapped around me in the way of gear/quickdraws. Add in a belay plate, and you've just got a completely faff of mess tangled around you. I wonder if you're overthinking this...?

1
In reply to Barney Smith:

It looks like an overly complex, over engineered solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Keep it simple.

Al

1
cp123 27 Aug 2020
In reply to Barney Smith:

Hi Barney,
 

There is nothing wrong with having a perma clove hitch on your petzl rope.

The other option is you clove hitch a carabineer onto the loose end and that becomes the anchor attachment point and the adjustable bit is what you ab off.

1
 Cobra_Head 28 Aug 2020
In reply to Barney Smith:

Just use a sling larks-footed to you harness to extend the belay device, it's a lot easier and there's no loose bits flapping around

 JStearn 29 Aug 2020
In reply to Barney Smith:

I have a Petzl Connect also and agree that it is usually just extra faff that gets in the way on the harness. I've gone back to just using the rope to connect to anchors. However, I do find it useful if you have multiple abseils compared to a sling extension because you can easily adjust it to get tight on the anchor and it is also very useful for rope soloing because you are not tied into the rope. One other advantage is that it is a more dynamic tether than a dyneema sling. If I were doing a load of abseils I would keep a krab in but you have probably noticed that it is a pain to remove it from the clove hitch once you have weighted it (even worse if you are winter climbing), it might get very difficult to remove if you left it in for a long period.

In reply to Barney Smith:

I was extremely skeptical about the usefulness of the connect, but have become a recent convert for some types of climbing. On multi-pitch trad routes I still just clip in with the rope and then abseil with a sling, but for moving around on alpine style ground (particularly when on AD style ground in a guiding context) they are super handy.

I understand what you mean about it being a minor faff to clove hitch in your abseil device if you're hanging on the lanyard already, but as you will usually be attached to the rope whilst doing this it should be easy to attach with the rope to take your weight off whilst you do this. As mentioned above, the usefulness of the Connect will be massively reduced if you have a knot/krab permenantly in it.

As an aside, I do think it's easier to do mutliple abseils with a connect instead of a sling, as it's super easy to get into just the right position on the belay, particularly when on hanging belays.

 aostaman 01 Sep 2020
In reply to Barney Smith:

Hmmm. Can it be done, I'm sure. Would I want to (or recommend) this for the fifth ab at the end of a day when Concentration is best focussed on down safe, rather than down comfy, not convinced.

I use a Connect, it makes belay setups (for me) quicker, simpler and therefore I hope safer. Simple is good for me. I can see lots of ways, small errors could add up with this rig.

I do also use the Alpine click up, for the abs. It makes life simpler as you don't need the prussik, and the new ones are much lighter.


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