Would you take two walking poles on Trois Monts Route?

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 montyjohn 09 Jun 2022

I’m planning to do the Trois Monts route in July. I’ve never climbed this route and I’ve got a heavy(ish) bag so looking to shed some weight where I can.

An easy win is dropping a pole or two. Part of the reason my bag is heavy is I was planning on bringing a second axe for the crux but with two poles and two axes it’s all starting to sound rather excessive.

I’m trying to decide if I’d miss two poles or not. There’s an obvious 0.5 mile walk across Valley Blanch where I would want to use them, and then another 0.3 mile bit between Mont Blanc du Tacul and Mont Maudit where two poles would be great.

Above Mont Maudit the route looks either exposed or steep so I imagine I would want an axe in hand for these bits but until I get there, I can’t be certain.

I’m just looking to get views from others that have done this route. Did you bring two poles, did you use them both above Mont Maudit? Would you take them again?

I could drop an axe, but if the crux ends up being icy at 60 degrees I think I’ll want the extra axe.

 JohnV 09 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

One axe, one pole, one whippet?

 ExiledScot 09 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

I sense I'll be controversial, again, if you're carrying an axe then poles need to go away, as you'll not be in a good position to do anything. The same if you're wearing crampons, your weight should be on the spikes, not your poles. 

3
 a crap climber 09 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

Not done that route so feel free to ignore, but when on a  wet glacier I always have an axe in one hand. If your partner falls in a crevasse you might need it to self arrest. So I'd go one pole, one axe, with a second axe on my pack in case it's needed for the crux. Chances of falling in a crevasse on those particular bits of the route are arguably low, but why chance it?

Might be worth asking in the guides office what the conditions are like on the route, but from what I gather it's a two axe job most seasons these days

Post edited at 11:32
 Suncream 09 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

I didn't have any poles when I did it. Pretty much the whole route is crevassed and I had one axe, which I had out the whole time.

But then I don't find poles particularly useful if I'm walking on the flat with a lightish pack.

Post edited at 11:47
 OwenM 09 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

Long time since I did it  1983. I just took one axe.

1
 BruceM 09 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

No poles.  Unless you will walk down instead of taking the train.  It's all alpine axe out material.

I usually have poles for everything, but nowhere up there.

Everybody uses one axe only.  The only steepish bit is getting UP to Maudit - not above.  Yeah, 2 axes could be better than a rope there, but noone does that.  It's not worth it for such a short section.  There, the highest risk seems to be somebody falling on you while their guide is shouting at them from above about how to use crampons for the first time.

Think light as poss.

Have fun.

 MG 09 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

I didn't take poles and had one axe.  If I did it again, I'd probably take one pole and one axe and both available, if not necessarily in my hands.  There are quite long flatish sections, and even the top section isn't that steep given the track will be heavily zigzgagged.  All this said, it will change a lot depending on snow cover etc.

 wbo2 09 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:  One pole one axe-  nice combination for contouring on steep ground

 colinakmc 09 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

+1 for no poles. Most of the day they’ll get in the way.

1
 profitofdoom 09 Jun 2022
In reply to colinakmc:

> +1 for no poles. Most of the day they’ll get in the way.

I completely agree

1
 jonesieboy 09 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

another vote from me for one pole one axe. Good combination for the plodding!

 mcawle 09 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

I came down it in 2019 after the Royal Traverse. Admittedly it was towards the end of a long day so I don’t remember much but it was definitely a lower/abseil job down the crux and I remember it being steep and hard ice. My inclination as a PD-AD sort of climber was that I’d probably want two axes leading up it, but take that with a grain of salt. Also worth checking the bergschrund at the base of the Tacul as well, it was a fixed rope in 2019 and I imagine interesting to have climbed up although a walk in 2021.

 PJ2398 10 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

Personally I took one axe and one pole and was very glad of the pole especially on the long snow plod section after Maudit. 
Worth checking with the guide’s bureau on the state of the bergschrund on the Tacul- they were recommending 2 axes for the leader at some point last year. I assume you’ll be in a pair so may be worth taking an extra very lightweight axe (ski touring type) between you so you’ve got 3. 
It’s a very personal choice based on your experience, skills and the conditions- the only certainty is that a light bag helps massively!

 drew8connelly 10 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

I’ve done it a few times with 2 axes and 2 poles. If I was to do it again  I’d take 2 axes and 2 poles. Agreed, it’s eminently doable with one axe only. I was always happy to have the second axe crossing the tacul bergschrund and the steepening on mont maudit. I find it feels more secure descending the top of the midi arete with one pole and one axe. The second pole is handy if you end up walking to Les Houches due to missing the last train/frique.

OP montyjohn 10 Jun 2022

Thanks everyone for all your responses.

There's clearly a range of answers which is to be expected due to different route conditions and personal preference which does make it all very interesting.

I think I'm going to do as follows.

Take one pole and two axes to the hut. Based on feedback I get from returning climbers and hut staff I'll decide whether to leave my spare axe at the hut that evening. I'll also check in Chamonix beforehand but want to keep as many options open as possible until the last minute. 

I anyone has been up this summer, it would be really interesting to hear from you.

 jon 10 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

So are you planning to come back down les Trois Monts? It's a pain going back up to the Cosmiques just to retrieve your axe (if you're not planning to stay there) and then all the way back up to the Midi. Also, walking across the long flat section from the bottom of Tacul in slushy snow is much easier with two poles. Personally I'd take two poles and one axe. If you really feel the need of two axes, do as someone said higher up and take a lightweight ski touring axe or something like a Simond Fox, and take it with you. And lastly, if you are intent on leaving an axe at the hut, don't bother walking back up there afterwards as it probably won't be there...!

OP montyjohn 10 Jun 2022
In reply to jon:

> And lastly, if you are intent on leaving an axe at the hut, don't bother walking back up there afterwards as it probably won't be there...!

Haha, the hut staff have said they'd look after a spare bag. Not sure how well however.

> So are you planning to come back down les Trois Monts?

Yes. I've booked two nights in the hut, and if the stars align and a weather window just happens to be between those two days we will spend both nights in the hut and have a little explore the following day.

Obviously if the storm gods aren't playing ball, and we only have one night, then I'll have to have another think.

I do like the ski axe idea. I've got the Grivel Air techs, and without a leache and hammer my spare weighs 430g. Typical ski axe is 250g so not a bad saving. Plus they are pretty cheap(ish). But is it worth it? I'll have a think.

 wbo2 10 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:  I very much enjoyed going up 3 Monts and down the Gouter, but that was a while ago.  Going up 60degrees isn't so steep, and one ace should be ok, but a faff to come down tired

 ExiledScot 10 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

Thoughts, when you say you've got a heavy ish bag, how heavy? You should be able to get everything you need for 2 nights hut use in a 40litre bag, which once you're on a route wearing harness, helmet, crampons, rope etc..  be way less than half full. 

 TobyA 10 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

If you are considering investing in light second tool, I can fully recommend the Petzl Gully hammer. https://www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/Ice-axes/GULLY Can be found for well under 100 quid, weighs 280 grams and then you've got a hammer which can be quite helpful at times. And the sliding hand rest means you can swing it leashless with a good grip. 

I used mine a fair amount last winter when soloing easy UK winter routes - probably up to about II,3 kind of ground on buttress routes. 


 drunken monkey 10 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

Ditch the poles and carry axes. I had 2 axes out all day but the steep part up onto the shoulder of maudit I probably could have managed with one axe. Poles are no use for arresting a slip either.

1
 ExiledScot 10 Jun 2022
In reply to pole lovers:

Yeah poles are great, but not once you're on the snow. Pushing up from the valley bottom in Saas Fee to a hut, perfect, axes on the bag and poles out. 

Once on a glacier, snow slope etc.. you are increasing personal risk and those fastened to you if you use poles. If you doubt me just try an ice axe breaking practice with one around your wrist, or simulate a crevasse rescue. Even just the simple task of changing the axe from hand to hand when zig zagging up or downhill suddenly becomes more complex, slow and faffy.

Yeah they might make slogging a few hundred metres of wet snow easier, but the solution there is get fitter and start earlier!  

2
OP montyjohn 10 Jun 2022
In reply to ExiledScot:

> Thoughts, when you say you've got a heavy ish bag, how heavy?

I weighed it the other day, with water but no food at 7.7kg. That was with two poles and one axe stowed away, a pretty overkill down jacket and full waterproofs. I included a bit of gear most of which will likely find a home on my harness.

It's manageable.

 CantClimbTom 10 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

Hang on 7.7Kg?

Is that the weight of your day-pack (you said you were planning to leave a bag at the Cosmiques?). If your day-pack is 7.7Kg then you *Must* reduce that

 Jim Hamilton 10 Jun 2022
In reply to ExiledScot:

> Yeah they might make slogging a few hundred metres of wet snow easier, but the solution there is get fitter and start earlier!  

fitter than this guy?!

https://www.revistainua.com/documental-record-del-mont-blanc-por-manuel-mer...

(looks like poles up, axe down) 

 ExiledScot 10 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

Bit of gear? 

I'd say you're belt and braces there, it's hut to hut, on site weather forecast, popular route, hard to get lost in decent weather etc... 

I'd still ditch the poles. One axe in hand, the other on harness, if it steepens or there is congestion on the easiest line then grab the other axe followed by a quick burst of daggering with both axes and you're on your way, no stopping, no taking bags off, if you are planning to come back the same way you really need to be efficient time wise. 

Me, I'd plan it differently. You've 2 nights in the hut, day 1 head up and across do the tour ronde or one of the other hillocks there. Then head across the valley to the hut, day 2 head up and just do Tacul or cosmiques arete, day 3 lounge around and snooze all day at 9 or 10pm when the hut goes to bed and they kick you out set off for your 3 peaks. You'll be more acclimatised, have solid conditions under foot, be familiar with the area and hit the summit around dawn. Descend via the gouter looking at the faces of folk having a miserable time being dragged up by their guide.

Post edited at 16:35
 wbo2 10 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:  I assume you've seen this as there's some good info https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/destinations/how_to_climb_mont_blanc_-_... . Note the description of the crux step on Mt Maudit. Yes , it is a bit steeper, but it is still only a section of 50 or 60deg, with steps/a trench normally.  I sort of rolled over it waiting for the action to happen.   Assuming that you are competent on crampons you will be ok with one or two as you will not be front pointing

 ExiledScot 10 Jun 2022
In reply to Jim Hamilton:

That's fine if your 100% sure of crevasses, your cramponing technique is faultless etc... but judging by the questions they have asked I'd say that him and the OP are at opposite ends of the alpine experience scale.  (no offence meant op)

 jon 10 Jun 2022
In reply to montyjohn:

> > Thoughts, when you say you've got a heavy ish bag, how heavy?

> I weighed it the other day, with water but no food at 7.7kg. That was with two poles and one axe stowed away, a pretty overkill down jacket and full waterproofs. I included a bit of gear most of which will likely find a home on my harness.

That's not bad especially when some of it's going on your harness. I thought you'd meant much more than that. Your big down jacket isn't overkill at all. Make sure it's big enough to go over everything else you're wearing so you don't have to take anything off. I'd add a pair of mitts to that - even if you're using expensive gloves - cheap mitts are warmer than the most expensive gloves.

Edit. Mitts as well as gloves, not instead of.

Post edited at 16:42
OP montyjohn 10 Jun 2022
In reply to ExiledScot:

> I'd say you're belt and braces there, it's hut to hut, on site weather forecast

Quite possibly, but the weight is worst case. A few key items.

  • Bag = 1.2kg
  • Waterproofs = 1kg
  • Gear was a few slings, crabs, pulley = 0.4kg (left a few things out like ice screws that I know will be on my harness)
  • Down = 0.74kg. It's a warm coat. It's my insurance policy.
  • Water and flask = 2.4kg
  • Two Poles = 0.58kg
  • Spare axe = 0.56kg (with leach and hammer which I since removed)
  • That makes 6.7kg. The rest being goggles (probably won't use as I'll wear glasses but mandatory), spare cheap headtorch, meds, suncream, warm gloves, buff etc

> Me, I'd plan it differently. You've 2 nights in the hut, day 1 head up and across do the tour ronde or one of the other hillocks there. Them head across the valley to the hut, day 2 head up and just do Tacul or cosmiques arete, day 3 lounge around and snooze all day at 9 or 10pm when the hut goes to bed and they kick you out set off for your 3 peaks.

Plan is to head up 2 or 3 days before and head part way or all the way, we'll see, up Tacul, then back down to Chamonix. Got some lower stuff before this planned also.

Decending the gouter isn't off the table.

OP montyjohn 10 Jun 2022
In reply to jon:

> Your big down jacket isn't overkill at all. Make sure it's big enough to go over everything else you're wearing so you don't have to take anything off. I'd add a pair of mitts to that - even if you're using expensive gloves - cheap mitts are warmer than the most expensive gloves.

It is big enough. It all goes together quite well. I actually don't have mitts. I've got Hestra Guide gloves and they are pretty warm, I've got some ski mitts somewhere, but I bet they're super heavy as it wouldn't have been a consideration when buying them.

Post edited at 17:01

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