Winter Mountaineering (in actual winter!)

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 FerClimbs 28 Jun 2019

Hi people,

I am fairly new to mountaineering and experience is taking too long for my impatient soul so I was thinking about taking this winter off and spend some time up in the mountains.

I was thinking first to spend some time in the following areas:

December: Scotland, Lake District.

January: Pyrenees (mainly Spanish)

February: Alps. Probably south, Ecrin, Oroco Valley, for no particular reason.

March, May and April: Nepal. Annapurna region.

Ambitious, isn't it?

I have tons of questions... but the first one would be... do you see something terrible wrong with my plan?

I know most refugees will be closed at that time of the year so unfortunately I would need to carry a tent and sleeping arrangements (too cold for bivving probably) to camp.

Regarding weather, I have checked the Pyrenees and apparently in December the rainy season finishes so January should be fairly dry, although cold. Scotland, the Lakes, this likely to be QMDs (Quality Mountain Days) for my ML (Mountain Leader) as I doubt there will be any snow for that time of the year. The Alps will be covered in Snow for January although maybe too much snow? I can move things a little bit forward and backwards but going this summer or next is not an option unfortunately.

Another topic that concerns me is partners. I will reach to all my climbing partners, my local mountaineering club, probably here as well but I am guessing it wont be easy to find partners for this ambitious plan, so wondering if you have any advise in that sense. I am happy to do stuff solo but I need other for glacier crossing and pitching.

Any advice, feedback will be welcomed.

Thanks!

Fer

5
 subtle 28 Jun 2019
In reply to FerClimbs:

December in Scotland can be very wet, generally dark, prone to high winds at that time of year - and not generally that snowy so good luck.

With regards to the Alps in Winter learn to use ski's to get around to the huts/climbs, can save a lot of tiem and effort - a lot of huts have emergency or winter rooms - basic accommodation, no staff so need to bring own food etc. but means no tent etc. - just make sure they have winter room before setting off to them.

Good luck

2
 Mark Haward 28 Jun 2019
In reply to FerClimbs:

Yes, very ambitious in terms of time scale. I would be tempted, having looked at your profile, to adjust your ambitions slightly. 

    My main reasoning is that you seem to have little winter experience in the UK, have little summer alpine experience and alpine winter is a whole different game again. 

    I would suggest spending this winter season visiting Wales, Scotland and the Lakes to both build up your QMDs in different areas for your ML but also get lots of winter skills and practice as conditions allow. This would then put you in a stronger position to have a great summer season in the alps where you can put your snow, ice and mixed skills into practice and add glacier and altitude practice. It would still be a big jump but you would then be in a better position to understand the skills, knowledge and equipment involved with alpine winter climbing and then on to the greater ranges.

If you want to speed up the learning process consider joining a club or a winter / alpine course or even hiring a guide. Whatever you decide, have fun and enjoy the journey. 

1
OP FerClimbs 28 Jun 2019
In reply to Mark Haward:

Thanks Mark!

Wise words. Specially about having fun The reason I am not spending much time in the UK is because I am fearing a winter like the last one... no snow.

I have joined my local mountaineering club and I have done a winter mountaineering course at Glenmore Lodge a couple of years ago. So I already followed your advice I have been on a couple of guided trips but I like more to plan and assume the responsibility of my trips.

What I may do is to spend more time in the Pyrenees and less or none in the Alps although Ecrin and Orocco Valley seem like natural progression to me, just slightly higher than the Pyrenees.

All the best!

2
 dunnyg 29 Jun 2019
In reply to FerClimbs:

Could go canada and get good at water ice. Plenty of skiing/ski mountaineering too. 

1
 Mark Haward 29 Jun 2019
In reply to FerClimbs:

Do you ski? Learning to ski mountaineer and perhaps how to use snowshoes would broaden your options. How about spending spring / summer in the alps and get some of the snow / ice and mixed routes in?

1
OP FerClimbs 01 Jul 2019
In reply to Mark Haward:

Hi Mark, yes, I ski a little bit. I did a week course last February in Androrra. Still lots to learn to do ski mountaineering. No idea how to use snowshoes but it seems easy to learn. It looks like fun but really tiring

Unfortunately I only have winter available. I will need to work on summer.

1
 Mark Haward 02 Jul 2019
In reply to FerClimbs:

What are you hoping to do / achieve in terms of going to the Pyrenees and Southern Alps in the winter? What are you aiming for? Walking, climbing, summits? 

    The Glenmore Lodge courses are brilliant. If you are a competent skier you could learn a lot about the alpine winter environment and how to travel safely through it from an ISM course. Although the glaciers in the Pyrenees are tiny remnants, the winter brings lots of deep soft snow and avalanche awareness / skills are required. The Bareges Valley has easy access and is popular for snow shoeing. 

    The Ecrins are beautiful, lots of ice climbing around. Some has easy access but in winter, as in most alpine areas, access is often by ski or snowshoes. Some ski resorts can be great places to learn to ski uphill in a more controlled environment and give access to off piste areas and small peaks. Again the caveat about knowledge and skills to accurately assess avalanche conditions.

    I've never been in winter but Morocco, around Toubkal, is quite popular in winter.

OP FerClimbs 02 Jul 2019
In reply to Mark Haward:

Thanks Mark! Insightful as usual.

My aim is to get experience in "mountaineering" as in summiting a peak by whatever means. If it involves technical sections even better (I climb trad up to E1). I am not keen on ice climbing. If I cannot find appropriated partners I will stick to low lever walking in well established paths, maybe a summit if it does not involves crossing a glacier, seracs, rock climbing or roping up in general but I am aware of the risks of going solo.

Why winter? Unfortunately it is the time of the year I have available but also I hope the winter environment in these areas reproduce a bit the summer/best season in higher peaks, like 5000-6000s, in Nepal for example. I have time in hands so I can wait for best conditions, I don't need to climb/hike everyday.

Glenmore Lodge is great! I attended to an Avalanche Awareness lecture while I was there doing a winter skills course. The problem was the usual one: no much snow. Imagine that you are not based in the UK... that you are free to go whenever you want... would you go to Scotland to acquire alpine skills? I do understand it does make sense for people in the UK to learn Alpine Skills in Scotland (and it did for me while living in Bristol), but for me that I have no commitments in the UK now it make more sense to acquire these skills closer to the Alps, where I have snow guaranteed and plenty of terrain to explore. I hope you understand my point.

I took my crampons to Andorra this year when I went skiing but at the end I never used them as skiing was great fun! I do agree indeed that ski resorts are great starting points and I have already identified one south of the Pyrenees that would be a good starting point (Port del Comte, 2300mts). Also they rent snowshoes so I may give it a go to this.... I need to get my fitness back!

Toubkal is great, of course! I climbed it in winter two years ago

In reply to FerClimbs:

Hi Fer

I live Briançon side of the Écrins, The time of year you are looking at visiting its mainly about the skiing, ether ski touring to summits or for lines, the climbing routes high in the mountains are also accessed by skis (yes you can snowshoe but its a bit of a faff) for the higher peaks the refuges have winter rooms, but you still need to carry a fair amount. There is some easy access ice but you said your not in to that? also in Feb the weather starts to get better and on sunday the rock climbing comes in to.

If it was me I would maybe look at spending more time in the alps and focus on ski touring, maybe do a course to kick you off, then get as much experience touring and doing route's as you can?

 kathrync 02 Jul 2019
In reply to subtle:

> December in Scotland can be very wet, generally dark, prone to high winds at that time of year - and not generally that snowy so good luck.

Agree with this - the winter season in Scotland doesn't usually arrive properly until January.  I often find it is at its best late Feb/early March.  December is not when I would choose to go if I were planning that far in advance.

 Mark Haward 02 Jul 2019
In reply to FerClimbs:

Hi, I obviously wasn't clear. I wouldn't suggest an alpine course in Scotland. ISM do great courses in the European alps ( they will chase the best conditions in terms of location ) and see if you can get an alpine winter avalanche course. 

    The 5,000 to 6,000 metre peaks commonly done in Nepal are more akin to alpine summer than winter.

OP FerClimbs 02 Jul 2019
In reply to ecrinscollective:

Thanks! This is really good to know.

I will have a look at ski touring, I have friends who are into that.

OP FerClimbs 02 Jul 2019
In reply to kathrync:

Mmmm... I think I may skip Scotland and come back later next year... before the midges arrive!

Thanks!


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