Self belaying

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 Suncream 20 Aug 2021

I'm thinking of soloing an alpine route which for the most part is fairly easy but has one short section of very exposed F5a climbing - a grade I would very happily solo at the crag, but at 4000m in big boots, I'm not so sure. My normal approach would be to decide at the time, and if necessary just back off if it looks too necky.

However, I remembered reading something on Andy K's blog about this, and sure enough I found this article:

https://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/winter_soloing

I'm definitely not going to carry a full rope soloing setup on an alpine climb, but since I'd have a rope anyway for abseiling, this system is quite appealing. Basically he says place some gear, tie in direct on one half of the rope, continue climbing, place some more on the other half of the rope, and pull the rope out of the first piece.

Has anyone got any experience with this technique and anything to share?

Andy K seems to suggest trying to yank the gear out from above and otherwise leaving it. I don't understand why you wouldn't just downclimb after the next piece is placed to recover the first?

1
 Rob Parsons 20 Aug 2021
In reply to Suncream:

Since you will have a rope and (minimal) gear, why not just use a conventional roped soloing technique (e.g. the clove hitch method)?

What's the route by the way?

 JStearn 20 Aug 2021
In reply to Suncream:

How short is the section? I have used a (dynamic?) lanyard to pull over sections where falling is not an option (similar to daisy chain soloing: https://blissclimbing.com/en/blog/2020/10/28/daisychainsolo/)

Pretty sketchy as you can see so not recommended. If you back clean all your gear, you would only have one piece between you and a nasty fall, also not recommended! Depending on the length of the section, I would just use the clove hitch on ATC method, you probably will be carrying one anyway for the abseils. It's worth practising with it because pulling slack through the clove hitch is a pain. I would also take a few pegs, they can be useful for anchors.

I think in the method AK is describing, the rope forms a loop (so you can unclip and retrieve it), it isn't two separate strands. I wouldn't consider this unless you are trying to break speed records!

OP Suncream 20 Aug 2021
In reply to JStearn:

I'm pretty sure he did mean two separate strands, he says "clip into the middle and trail both ends".

Anyway I'd never heard of the clove hitch on ATC, are you referring to this:

youtube.com/watch?v=YBmaY4qCLCg&

If so that seems like a neat trick and a potentially good solution, thanks.

Post edited at 16:32
 Rob Parsons 20 Aug 2021
In reply to Suncream:

> I'm pretty sure he did mean two separate strands, he says "clip into the middle and trail both ends".

The only way the 'basics of self-belay' description in that article makes sense is if the rope indeed forms a loop. What he means is that you make a loop using one of the two single strands which you're trailing.

The method described might be reasonable on some easy-ish Winter ground, but it sounds completely inappropriate for rock-climbing (which is your case.) I wouldn't use it.

 JStearn 20 Aug 2021
In reply to Suncream:

Yes that is the method, you can also put another krab in the knot to make it easier to give slack (see this: https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/the-improved-clove-hitch-lead-solo) but if that krab catches on something the clove hitch will fail. Overall, I would only use this for very short, easy sections because you need a decent stance to pull slack. You need to make a loop otherwise the rope won't be retrievable from above. 

OP Suncream 21 Aug 2021
In reply to JStearn:

Thanks both. I had a go with this system (one clove hitch on the reverso) at the crag today and it seems good, definitely more reliable than what AK was describing, but also way more faff than using a Silent Partner.

Anyway it looks like someone wants to come with me on the route so for now this remains academic!

I'm still interested to hear if anyone has in anger used the system Andy describes.

 Johnhi 22 Aug 2021
In reply to Suncream:

I've used the

"place a piece of gear, clip a krab to it, then clip in one strand of your rope, clipping the end into your harness. You can now climb ....Once you’re out of rope ...unclip the rope end so the rope feeds out of the gear ...living the gear behind"

approach a couple of times for confidence on bouldery steps like passing a chockstone.  Works OK for short tricky sections, would likely have hurt myself in a fall but certainly better than falling hundreds of feet.

I've also done a couple of longer pitches building a proper anchor, tying in with a clove hitch and abseiling afterwards to clean the pitch.  Again did the job, a fall wouldn't be fatal, but didn't feel wildly safe!  Would definitely practice before hand, it's not fun faffing about failing to pay out slack with one hand, above gear while stood on small holds!

OP Suncream 24 Aug 2021
In reply to Rob Parsons:

Kanzelgrat (D)

Well I did it. My friend bailed on me last minute but I went anyway, using a clove hitch like you guys suggested. I made a little video if you're interested:

youtube.com/watch?v=J8Apgqu3wh4&

 McHeath 24 Aug 2021
In reply to Suncream:

Rare to get feedback on putting the given advice into practice, incredibly rare to actually get a vid, and this one's a gem! Fantastic conditions, and you seem to have solved the technical aspects in a very sovereign way. So chapeau and respect, even though the music really got on my nerves!  

 Rob Parsons 24 Aug 2021
In reply to Suncream:

Glad you got it done. Good effort.

 MisterPiggy 27 Aug 2021
In reply to McHeath:

Good effort - looks like a beautiful day out !

 Steve Claw 28 Aug 2021
In reply to Suncream:

Nice one!

How did you find the rope feed with a running clove hitch?

I always discounted the method as too cumbersome so for emergencies use only.

OP Suncream 28 Aug 2021
In reply to Steve Claw:

It's certainly a bit cumbersome, it wouldn't work if you couldn't comfortably take a hand off all the way up the route, but at this grade (and probably a little harder) I found it worked pretty well for me

 Rob Parsons 28 Aug 2021
In reply to Steve Claw:

> I always discounted the method as too cumbersome so for emergencies use only.

What are your recommended (and tested!) alternatives for roped soloing?

 Steve Claw 28 Aug 2021
In reply to Rob Parsons:

Rob, 

I rarely lead solo, (mostly top rope solo with Taz Lov). But when I do I use a Silent Partner.

If I were to put devices in order,it would be:

1. Silent Partner (heavy, safe, expensive)

2. Taz Lov3 (not used mine for lead yet, but read its great for this)

3. Grigri1 (cheap, simple, but not guaranteed to lock, so backup really is essential)


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