UKH

Donno if it will be any good, Ben Fogel is guaranteed to make me shout at the telly but I’ll give it a go.

In reply to cander:

What channel?

In reply to Phantom Disliker:

ITV

In reply to cander:

Great scenery and fascinating insights into the logistics of the challenge but what's with all the crying?

In reply to cander:

Enjoyed that.

In reply to cander:

Hmmm. Pretty, but I’m not quite sure what we learned from that

 

In reply to cander:

Better than I'd expected - I imagine it's given a few people a better idea of what high altitude mountaineering is like. It certainly reminded me that I just don't want to go that high!

<extreme cynicism> Was that tearful summit speech really filmed at the summit? Or, perhaps, at a convenient spot lower down? For someone who'd been on oxygen more or less constantly for a significant part of the upper mountain he seemed remarkably not out of breath. And there was a steady stream of climbers heading up on fixed ropes on the near background - are there really ropes fixed literally all the way to the summit now? </extreme cynicism>

In reply to cander:

Why? He's the only celebrity created by a reality TV show who isn't a complete waste of space. In fact I think he's pretty cool and has done some genuinely worthwhile stuff.

 

In reply to Phantom Disliker:

Getting to the top of a mountain after a prolonged effort can be unexpectedly teary for some reason, even for non-luvvies.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Absolutely. Bonatti often wrote about tears of relief, and that's good enough for me.

In reply to Robert Durran:

 I like my people with rough edges, fogle is way too insipid for me.

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

I had my doubts about the “summit” speech as well, and finally turned it off when I couldn’t take any more of his bloody blubbering.

Did anyone else notice that no one had an ice axe ? Everyone on the summit had clipped jumars all the way from BC to the top without even taking axes.

Whilst not belittling in any way the physical effort required to summit, Fogle for me needs to  stop blubbering and going on about how much his children mean to him and be more Tilman like.  A rough handshake is all thats needed !

 

In reply to leon 1:

Do you feel the same about Bonington's blubbering on the summit of Everest?

 

In reply to toad:

For me - a bit more respect to Kenton Cool, after seeing him chatting away on the radio very focussed at Camp 4 discussing the missing climbers whilst Ben and co were completely spent and all over the place emotionally.

 

 

 

On reaching the summit of Nanda Devi in 1936, he didn't even do that.  "I believe we so far forgot ourselves as to shake hands on it." 

In reply to leon 1:

Andy Kirkpatrick said 'I'm here to talk about climbing, not a stiff walk, like an Everest summit, but actual climbing' at one of his talks in Bristol lol.

In reply to Joak:

I think this is generally taken to mean that they DID shake hands!

In reply to Robert Durran:

 

 

 

Bonington’s tears are very different. He was carrying, and still carries it seems, the weight of all those friends he lost in the mountains. And that includes Everest.

In reply to Pedro50:

Thanks, the "so far" bit threw me.   

In reply to Bellie:

 

I think Kenton is a great example of what happens when you put an exceptionally good climber on the standard route up Everest. He manages his surroundings with ease and without drama. Btw, I thought his book was excellent, very readable and he paints a picture of life on Everest that I haven’t read or heard anywhere else.

In reply to cander:

Only thing I'd add in to the discussion was that with the ads, editing played a major part in the documentary (which I genuinely enjoyed), which was a pity. Maybe two programmes would have been better or an actual 1 hour documentary!

In reply to becauseitsthere:

I did too.

I found the emotion showed by Ben to be quite touching - along with the insight into the mind / reasoning of Victoria "I'm not an asset to the team, more of a liability, I'm out of here"

In reply to cander:

Why all the crying?

I suspect he had just watched "Real Steel" and was just suffering from:

https://doctoryak.com/blog/altitude-associated-lacrimosity-syndrome-a-new-d...

 

In reply to cander:

My response to the program was that it seemed realistic regarding Ben and Vic  but, oh how disgusting was the mile-long string of tents in Everest Base Camp. And how dispiriting and awful to see the string of 'mountaineers' clipped onto the ropes and queueing up the bloody mountain. The sherpas were great, giving up their oxygen. Kenton Cool was way cool and composed, getting what looked like his by now single celebrity client to the top.

The whole thing seems so far removed from mountaineering as its generally understood by climbers to be a weird nightmare. 

I'd guess Victoria P couldn't simply go down to a lower altitude and recuperate because the 'expedition' was just her and Ben F, with KC and the sherpas' job being to get them up. The others weren't going to hang around while she recovered somewhere lower than Everest BC. Also she is basically not a climber with a climber's mindset, and took the withdrawal from the expedition harshly on herself. Tough times.

In reply to Patrick Roman:

That is true, but there is something about reaching the summit of a mountain after a mighty effort which can arouse deep emotions of all sorts, so I'm not sure the principle is entirely different.

In reply to Chris_Mellor:

Disgusting? What's so different to the crowding of honeypot peaks elsewhere? There's a whole planet's worth for peaks for those whose tastes lie in a different direction. What's so bad about a bit of live and let live?

 

In reply to cander:

I am not familiar with who the cameraman was but impressed that he also summited. Also Kenton gives his oxygen mask to Fogel when his packs up, just below the summit. That's doing your job!

In reply to cander:

I was a bit disappointed in Victoria, she only went up to Camp 2 the once and gave up. Surely everyone who goes up to Camp 2 so quickly after having flown in to Lukla will expect to feel rough. I think they said they went up through the ice-fall the day after arriving at BC to sleep at Camp 1, then the following day it was up to Camp 2 to sleep,  which seems quick to me. But the next time it gets easier, the time after that, it gets easier still. I thought a tough, dedicated athlete with a good 'winning' mentality would have given it a bit more of an effort. 

Having said that, hats off to Victoria for giving it a go, she got further up then I ever have or am ever likely to.

They seem to have lucked out with the weather, it looked great, and the cameraman did a great job, especially as he summited for his first time too.

 

In reply to Dogwatch:

Because honeypots leak. All that bad stuff on Everest does not stay on Everest. It leaks out like shit from an overflowing toilet and stains more and more mountains every year.

- It's brought the insurance scams that now threaten everyone going to any mountain in Nepal.

- It's brought us exploitation of Sherpas.

- It's brought us Everest-style guided fixed-rope crowds on other 8000ers and now on K2 as well.

- It's brought ridiculous regulations about needing 'guides' on all expeditions to Nepal.

- It's brought onerous fees that are really only payable by large commercial groups.

- It's brought a mentality that all this outsourced effort is a norm in mountaineering, when in fact it is the very antithesis of adventure, self-reliance and skill.

In reply to Damo:

Wait until the commercialise space travel.

In reply to leon 1:

I'm sure Ben is a nice bloke and loves his children, but it did seem a bit disingenuous him going on about doing it for his children and how much he loved them, when he had chosen to spend many months over the last 2 years away from them training for then attempting this climb. It seemed to me that it was as much about the personal challenge for him, and about his job as a TV personality/ adventurer.

In reply to mountain.martin:

Aye. Stay at home and bring them up, working six days a week in a boring job so that his children can prosper. That (as Joe Tasker once wrote) is real impressive behaviour...

 

In reply to Siward:

That's not what I'd advocate, there is a wide middle ground between that and spending a lot of large chunks of time away from the family. 

It is possible to lead a fulfilling and adventurous life and still have plenty of time for your family.

Maybe I'm being a bit unfair on him though, quite possibly he spends a lot of time with them when he is in the country and has chunks of time when he isn't working.

 

In reply to mountain.martin:

He’s a TV presenter. He’s not exactly going to be working 9-5. He probably has whole months off at a time. 

In reply to DancingOnRock:

Well yes, quite possibly but that doesn't mean he spends it with his kids. 

Not quite sure how I got into speculating about the personal life of a celebrity who has climed a mountain.

Think I'll shut up now.

In reply to cander:

Enjoyed it but I felt it would have been a more interesting programme if Ben had blown out and Victoria continued...

In reply to mountain.martin:

His kids are probably in some boarding school so he wouldn’t see them anyway. 

In reply to cander:

I just watched it and while I did enjoy it I couldn't help but think of the extreme risks and what went wrong. Maybe it's just me getting older but it seems like things could have gone seriously wrong. I was just glad he got out of it in one piece.

His generator went once and a Sherpa kindly donated his to him, leaving the Sherpa with no oxygen for the climb down. Then his generator failed again, meaning Kenton had no oxygen for the final summit push.

It's amazing how many people's lives are put at risk, not just the people who attempt to summit the climb but the mountain guides, Sherpas, camera men etc. 

Sorry, this may seem like an extremely negative post but these are just my impressions. At the end of the day it's up to him what he does, and clearly it's a life long ambition achieved so fair play.

In reply to jamesg85:

Regulator.

In reply to Dave the Rave:

Did you watch the program? His children are 7 and 9. 

He’s doing nothing different to a load of people who regularly work away from home. 

In my experience they’re a lot more engaged with their families when they’re home than most 9-5ers (who tend to be 7-7ers anyway!)

I’m hoping to catch up on it as I fell asleep after the first 30mins from working stupid hours (while my wife was out for dinner, my son was on X-box and my daughter was at work). Typing this from work right now...

In reply to jamesg85:

No doubt this is a regular occurrence on Everest. Had it been extremely serious they would have abandoned the attempt. 

From what I have read and seen about Everest, there is a lot of summit fever. It’s what mountaineers do, push the boundaries, it’s easy enough to say the mountain will be there next year, that’s true with Snowdon, you can do it any day of the year, but not with Everest, or any other big peak where huge amounts of planning, training and money are involved. 

In reply to DancingOnRock:

Haven’t watched it yet.

On my fourteenth straight day with no break. Day off tomorrow then 11 more 8-6s. Come home for dinner to tidy and cook for the kids.

Might get a walk up a hill later and several pints but will probabaly fall asleep.

I feel your pain!

Fogle has it easy.

In reply to DancingOnRock:

Yh, fair enough, at the end of the day the mountain guide and sherpas accept the risk in return for money. It is their job. It was amazing how selfless the Sherpa was in handing over his regulator. I suppose it was either that or Fogel being in an extremely dangerous situation and the chances of the Sherpa surviving are much higher. Thinking over things it made sense really. Likewise with Kenton handing over his regulator.

It was a great programme. I've heard a few times how Everest is just a plod and not a technical mountain but it's clearly a huge undertaking for anybody. There's no way even if fit enough would I entertain the prospect of trying to climb it.

In reply to cander:

The regulator issues to me were a bit Rum Doodle-esque but I couldn’t get how quickly the decision was made about Victoria. Couldn’t she have gone down to BC and rested a few days before trying again? 

Acclimatisation is a bit of a mystery to me, mind you.

In reply to cander:

Watched the repeat of the programme last night and thought it excellent. Free of the sort of BS too often fed to the public about mountaineering and an interesting insight into the Everest circus. While it is obviously fair to criticise that circus, I thought all the protagonists came across really well; Fogle is a refreshing class act amongst an awful lot of dross on popular TV.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Well that makes one of us. Quite uninspired program to be honest, which takes some doing when it's subject matter is supposed to be an ascent of Everst. Not much about the mountain, the 'circus', the Sherpas or sherpa community. I'm sure questions would've been asked about the regulator failures, but I doubt it was altruistic and selfless of the sherpas to give up theirs. They are there to support the client and why they are well paid, according to the program. The shallow super positivity was a bit annoying, and especially the summit bit about climbing your own Everest - anything's possible if you just tryyyy hard enough... - I'll put that down to taking off the mask and not enough oxygen....

 

In reply to Damo:

Yes, this.  I'd rather[1] do a lesser mountain self sufficient than have someone else drag me kicking and screaming up a bigger one.

[1] Actually, I can't be bothered with the discomforts and risks of serious winter mountaineering at all and I'd rather go hillwalking in the Lakes or for a nice day's scrambling up Tryfan, some British trad or maybe even some Italian VF or bolt clipping.  But each to their own

In reply to Neil Williams:

I’ve finally watched it and thought it quite good. If anything it’s reinforced that I’m not up for that.

No problem with the changing of regulators. Perhaps they had spares anyway and were just making good tele? If not, perhaps carrying on was a little foolhardy but then so is being there anyway. Glad all got down safely.

The only time he really grated on me was his phone call from the summit and his clubbing about goals. Other than that he’s clearly a tough bloke.