Karakorum - any recent experience?

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 Gawyllie 19 Nov 2018

Does anyone have any recent experience of the Karakorum?

If so did you travel the KKH? I travelled it in 2008 but there was a lot happened around this time and since that made western tour operators stop using it or stop going to Pakistan altogether.

I assume Baltistan is still relatively safe? we are looking at heading for Spantik

Any Information or advice appreciated

Cheers

 67hours 19 Nov 2018
In reply to Gawyllie:

Went to Shimshal last summer (2017). Drove KKH all the way back from Hunza to Islamabad (or wherever it ends, I wasn't always clear what was/wasn't "KKH"). It could have been any other road, no issues at all.

More info in report here: https://www.67hours.co.uk/files/British_Shimshal_Expedition_2017_Report.pdf

 Tom Briggs 19 Nov 2018
In reply to 67hours:

> Went to Shimshal last summer (2017). Drove KKH all the way back from Hunza to Islamabad (or wherever it ends, I wasn't always clear what was/wasn't "KKH"). It could have been any other road, no issues at all.

That's not proof of anything though is it? It's very clear the FCO advice is not to drive it:

Karakoram Highway

The Karakoram Highway runs from Hasan Abdal in north Punjab towards Gilgit and the Chinese border. The FCO advise against travel on the Highway between Islamabad and Gilgit. You should avoid travelling on the Highway at night - the road can be narrow with sudden steep drops. All sections of the Highway north of Batagram up to the Chinese border have experienced landslides.

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/pakistan/safety-and-security

To the OP the flights to Skardu are much more reliable thesedays. This might be worth a read:

https://www.jagged-globe.co.uk/news/article.php?id=43

 

5
 67hours 19 Nov 2018
In reply to Tom Briggs:

No Tom, it's not "proof of anything" but I think that's a little harsh, I was just directly answering the OP's request for recent experience as to whether anyone had driven the road.

As our report states, of course we read the FCO advice you list above. At the time of our travel it was also "advise against all travel, but we prepared a detailed note about our plans sufficient to let the BMC explicitly insure us for this route (which I gather is unusual). We flew in to Gilgit on the way there, but made the drive back when the cloud cover cancelled the return flight.

@Gawyllie - feel free to message me if you want to know any more.

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 Tom Briggs 20 Nov 2018
In reply to 67hours:

Sorry, but I see this a lot on the forums. Normally it relates to something along the lines of climbing Mera Peak and not needing to wear double boots. Yes, you might get away with it, but it wouldn't be advisable.

I think it would have been helpful to point out to the OP that the FCO advice is not to travel the KKH between Islamabad and Gilgit. That is the clear advice from the Foreign Office, which presumably you had intended to follow given that you flew into Gilgit?

If you were insured on the basis of flying into Gilgit, then you would have avoided the KKH, so I don't really understand what point you're trying to make with regards the BMC insurance? I doubt you would have been covered for anything relating to the KKH.

Post edited at 10:05
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 67hours 20 Nov 2018
In reply to Tom Briggs:

" I doubt you would have been covered for anything relating to the KKH."

Sorry Tom but we did. I don't really want to get into an argument on here but you don't know anything about our trip and you're wrong - we undertook our trip knowing that flight cancellation might necessitate the need to drive the KKH. So we worked with the BMC underwriters to arrange cover for this journey if needed. The insurance certificate explicitly states this. An Imperial College expedition had previously arranged the same, which is where we got the idea from.

FCO advice is an important starting point of course, but so is educating yourself on the area and situation and making your own judgement. I can, however, completely understand that as a commercial outfit you may have a different perspective on this w.r.t to your duty of care to your clients. Have you travelled the KKH recently and got any experiences to share?

George

 Tom Briggs 20 Nov 2018
In reply to 67hours:

Hi George

OK, that's interesting. Thank you for the clarification.

No, I haven't personally been to Pakistan recently but I have been involved in planning our 'return' there next summer (together with David Hamilton, who was there this summer and has more experience in the Karakoram than any other British climber, arguably). You are probably right, we have a higher duty of care regarding commercial trips. But on these forums good advice is good advice, whether or not you're doing personal trips or commercial ones.

Post edited at 11:51
 Mr. Lee 20 Nov 2018
In reply to Gawyllie:

I took a taxi between Gilgit and Islamabad in 2015 as a plan B after our flight was cancelled. We arranged it easy enough at short notice through our guesthouse. Lots of checkpoints, which really added a lot of time to the journey, and the trip took 16 hours in the end. We were given an armed guard at a checkpoint for one stretch of the road, a bit like when heading up to the Khyber Pass. The driver also blacked out the windows for this stretch. I doubt you'd be able to take a bus Gilgit and Islamabad if the armed guard is still needed. We of course travelled these dodgy stretches is daylight.

I had to cancel a trip to the Karakoram this year due to a foot injury but I would have used a taxi as a backup if flights cancelled again. I'd definitely try and book domestic flights as a plan A. The Skardu flight is more reliable than the Gilgit flight. If the flight does cancel then it's up to you whether how many days you want to wait, or whether you just want to take a cab. My trip was one month, which didn't offer that much slack in reality. If I could take a longer trip then I would probably have just out in Islamabad for a few days. Personally, I weighed the climbing-related risks to be greater than those associated with taking a cab, but that was my personal choice. 

OP Gawyllie 20 Nov 2018
In reply to Gawyllie:

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and experience.

We travelled back via the KKH in 2008 as the flight hadn't left in a few days. It felt safe enough however this was before the Taliban gained control of Swat Valley. I had assumed the situation had recovered somewhat since then and was just after some recent experience to back that up.

On another note we met with David Hamilton in Skardu on that trip. Maybe run into him next year again.


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