UKH

Hello everyone, 

Firstly, I am completely new to posting on Forums so please forgive any faux pas I make. 

I am looking for advice from anyone that may have had previous experience with receiving refunds from cancelled expeditions with an English company (who may or may not be moving to insolvency). I am uncertain whether I can publicly name the operator. A google search brought me to this website from which previous forum entries regarding questionable customer service were linked to the issue I am currently facing with the said operator. 

Previously, I had booked an expedition in Russia in 2014 with this operator which was unfortunately cancelled due to the tension between Russia/ Crimea and Ukraine. Completely understandable circumstances and the operator offered a transferred trip or refund. I opted for the refund which was received back into my bank account relatively quickly, 

Having experienced fantastic and friendly service, 7 years later in 2021, I decided to book the same expedition with the same operator. The deposit was a considerable amount - 1300. Obviously, with the conflict between Russia and Ukraine escalating in February 2022 the operators soon made the decision to cancel the summer expeditions and all going forward in the future. 

The option to transfer to another trip was offered or a full refund. Due to work commitments, I chose to again, receive a full refund. Whilst the communication from the operator was lax, to say the least, I was fully sympathetic due to the stress covid and now the war in Ukraine was causing them. 

The timeline laid out in the terms and conditions for the refund to be sent came and went, and now with no response to emails, telephones disconnected, and websites down/ removed, I am at a complete loss as to what to do next. 

I plan on seeking legal advice as to how best to proceed.

However, I am curious about the experiences that anyone here may have had in the past - good, bad or ugly? 



 

This is who I think it is isn’t it?

Possibly, although I don't want to name anyone publicly.

As sure as TPS is E0. 

This is a really bad sign. Are you within the period where you could claim on your credit card or can make a claim on insurance?

In view of the above I think it would be useful for you to name the company. As long as you are only reporting your true experience I cannot see a problem.

Yes, the disconnected telephone was the red flag that set alarm bells off this week.
Unfortunately, I couldn't use my credit card as my limit was 1,200, whilst the deposit amount was 1,299. Opted for debit card but there was an error during the payment and I bank transferred instead. 

Hindsight is 20/20. Lesson learned big time.

This is the second thread recently asking for advice about how to proceed in light of a cancelled expedition.

In both cases the OP has declined to name the operator.

Why the reluctance to tell it like it is, and provide some useful feedback for the rest of us?

Iswas the company a member of ATOL? 

It's not helpful now, but for future reference, it's worth considering making an extra payment to your credit card for things like this to effectively give your credit limit a temporary boost. I've done it before to get the extra protections of a credit card for payments above my limit.

If your credit limit is £1k, with £100 currently owing, paying £600 onto the card would effectively give you a £1.5k limit.

Sorry to share it now, but hopefully it's useful to someone else and maybe you in the future.

I'm not sure of the ramifications of name and shaming? Especially if I did have to go down the court route to get the money back. Do you think it would look unfavourable on my part if I did? 

Is it possible to link the previous post at all? 

I think particularly bad as people started suggesting the company and were wrong! 

No, unfortunately not. 

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/expedition+alpine/commercial_exped_canned...

Appreciate its a debit card, but contact your bank anyway. My daughter nearly lost £1k when STA Travel went bust meaning the voucher she had after a covid cancelled trip to NZ was worthless. Bank refunded her.

If you are telling the truth, you have nothing to fear.

You are providing honest feedback of your experience with this company.

Gotcha.

If it’s who I think it is the guy who runs that company is liar, a there are no boundaries to lengths he will go to hide that fact.

You mention seeking legal advice and maybe court action.

I think at this stage from what you’ve said you are not aware of the actual state of the company and reasons for phone disconnected/website down or whatever? Before you spend money on legal advice or actual legal actions, I would suggest checking the publicly available details on the company first.

It’s therefore useful to check Companies House on the recorded status of the company in question. Make sure you use the free government service one and not one of the paid ones that just give the same info.

A check may not highlight anything yet depending on what is happening behind the scene, but it may eg if it is already dissolved, suspended, under formal notice of dissolution, etc, etc. There can also be clues if nothing else eg late/overdue account submission, change/resignations of directors or others with significant interest, etc., could be warning signs of the company’s future.

The website I used to use when I was in advice work doesn’t exist anymore. However, a google search came up with this link as an possible alternative so if you have never checked a company before try this one which seems to give similar details - you will need the registered company name or company registration number to search - https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/ . 

Also, just remember, some insurance policies include “free” legal advice/action included for consumer issues. Worth checking if you may have this already - eg my house and contents insurance has it included (of course subject to a few T&C’s main one is that any actions must have a reasonable chance of success).

It's not helpful now, but for future reference: you don't have to pay the full amount on the credit card to be able to make a Section 75 claim against the credit card company.  As little as 1p of the total amount being paid by credit card is sufficient to create the credit card issuer's liability for the whole transaction in the event of a problem arising with the merchant:

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/section75-protect-your-purchases/

I'll be blunt.  You've lost your money.

Legal action against a dissolved/insolvent organisation is futile. Even if you did get awarded in your favour, they wouldn't pay and you'd have no realistic means of recovery.

I think you should name them. That way anyone doing diligence on a future manifestation of the same people (which is how it tends to go), may be warned.

Pay by credit card in future per advice above. Recovery still isn't guaranteed, and is certainly painful to effect, but can get you restored for non supply if goods or services (it took me 18 months through MasterCard for a cancelled flight).

Does the site have an “under construction” notice on it?

No guarantee, but this may be worth a go?

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/visa-mastercard-chargeback/

Bank transfer was used. 

Ah, I missed that bit. Bum.

If the company is still trading, then i would file a claim with the courts under the small claims track.  Costs £30 and you can represent yourself.  Did this myself against my bank and won, 15 years ago.

The downside of this route is that, even with a county court judgement against them, they may refuse to pay.  Especially if the company has been put into insolvency - you just become another creditor.  To enforce the judgement, you might need to return to court and seek another judgement - this is when the court can appoint bailiffs to try and get your money.  This still won't work if the company has no worthwhile assets.

Sorry to hear about your problems.  Doesn't happen very often.  I guess you are an indirect victim of Putin's war.  By the end of the winter, we'll all be joining you in the same boat.

If you paid the money into a personal bank account as opposed to a company account, you should still be able to use the small claims.

Maybe you need a lawyer. I still can't get my refund from the trip to Montblanc that I planned for 2020 but that never happened due to pandemic.

Travel insurance may cover this OP.  Have a read of your policy looking for 'End Supplier Failure'

Hi, I'm a litigation lawyer by profession ~(UK) - it would be better to discuss privately if you want a bit of help?

A good starting point would be to go on their website, find the small print (usually at the bottom of the website) and try and find out the official registered company.

You can then search on Companies Hose to see if the company is there, and you will see all the directors of the company there too. You can check if the company is still active, and you should write formal letters to their registered address pointing out that you asked for a refund  within the contracted time (attach evidence of this) and demand your money back. 

The next step would be to draft a formal letter of claim (you could do this to begin with but it it will take you a bit more time and understanding than simply writing a letter).

NB: there MAY be a way to sue the director personally. I am actively working on a case at work for a client who was injured at a beauty salon. The company doesn't have a lot of assets, and will likely dissolve with the threat of any proceedings. 
I'm trying to work out the current case law position (which is very complicated) but it seems to me that if you can establish you have a specific agreement/contract with the director personally then you MAY have a chance of suing them instead of the company.  I'm sure there are lawyers out there who do this daily and will know more about this specific issue. I wouldn't take my word for it. 

A good reason to name them.

Found these; they may be of help. 

https://consumerboomer.com/can-i-get-my-money-back-from-a-bank-transfer/