Getting to the Alps 1860

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 MG 13 Nov 2022

How did people get to the Alps in the 1860s (ie. before extensive rail.networks)?  Weeks by horse and carriage? All the literature glosses over it, one exception being Whymper who mentions walking vast distances every so often.

 RX-78 13 Nov 2022
In reply to MG:

Maybe boat to southern France/northern Italy then horse/coach walk the rest.?

 Timy2 13 Nov 2022
In reply to MG:

Look how its changed over the last 40 years(since Ive been going).  Used to be Eurolines coach from Victoria to Chamonix(half day and night trip) or Transalpino train ticket (half day and night trip).  now its 1hr 15 minute flight plus 1hr transfer.  

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 seankenny 13 Nov 2022
In reply to MG:

According to a Wikipedia article on the history of the French railways, by 1860 you could get a train all the way to Geneva:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_France

There’s a map about a third of the way down showing the expansion of the system over time. Clearly it would have been an absolute nightmare journey before then, tho people did it - the second series of Gentleman Jack has our eponymous heroine travelling to the Alps in the early 19th century, and there’s a scene in Frankenstein (1818) set on the Mer de Glace.

Post edited at 20:05
 ste_d 13 Nov 2022
In reply to MG:

Mayhap part of the grand tour favoured by the upper classes to round off a gentleman's education

1
OP MG 13 Nov 2022
In reply to seankenny:

Interesting. Alpinism starts seriously in the  1850s, so maybe it was all trains. Still, must have taken days and been pretty rough.

 Darron 13 Nov 2022
In reply to MG:

Ì think the point is these were Victorian gentleman of independent means. Their journeys were rough yes but not as rough as the lives their wealth was built on.

5
 seankenny 13 Nov 2022
In reply to MG:

> Interesting. Alpinism starts seriously in the  1850s, so maybe it was all trains. Still, must have taken days and been pretty rough.

There’s a very interesting memoir a woman wrote about her childhood in mid 19th century London, in which she describes a train journey to Cornwall, where the family holidayed every summer. It really was quite a faff, took all day and sounds pretty uncomfortable; in short, like taking a bus in a remote part of India today. But perfectly do-able and much much better than horse and carriage.

OP MG 13 Nov 2022
In reply to Darron:

Some were. Most were employed. E.g Whymper was an artist, Stephen a journalist, Tyndall a scientist, Forbes an academic. I don't know about Ball (politician, it turns out)

Post edited at 22:01
 pec 13 Nov 2022
In reply to Darron:

> Ì think the point is these were Victorian gentleman of independent means. Their journeys were rough yes but not as rough as the lives their wealth was built on.

Still, being independantly wealthy men, they could have just sat on their arses drinking port.

The fact they had the imagination and the balls to make journeys unimaginably more adventurous than anything we could embark on today to essentially invent a whole new difficult and dangerous pursuit speaks volumes about their character.

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 Myfyr Tomos 13 Nov 2022
In reply to MG:

Have a read of "Savage Snows" by Walt Unsworth. It's a history of the ascents of Mont Blanc from the mid 18th C onwards. Gives you an idea of the type of people venturing to the Chamonix valley at the time, and the difficulties of getting there.

 AlanLittle 14 Nov 2022
In reply to Timy2:

> Look how its changed over the last 40 years(since Ive been going).  Used to be Eurolines coach from Victoria to Chamonix(half day and night trip) or Transalpino train ticket (half day and night trip).  now its 1hr 15 minute flight plus 1hr transfer.  

And therefore disappearing glaciers and no more summer ice climbing on arrival

1
OP MG 14 Nov 2022
In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

Thank, I have read that (a while back), and Graham-Brown's history, which gives clues about the very early exploring by e.g. Saussures.

 jon 14 Nov 2022
In reply to MG:

Having read de Saussure's book it would seem that just getting from Geneva to Chamonix was quite epic.

Post edited at 09:29
 Robert Durran 14 Nov 2022
In reply to Darron:

> Ì think the point is these were Victorian gentleman of independent means. Their journeys were rough yes but not as rough as the lives their wealth was built on.

Yes, lets cancel the lot of them. First ascents  of all the major peaks should be erased and reattributed to the unsullied. I'm just off to burn my first edition of "Scrambles".

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 EwanR 14 Nov 2022
In reply to MG:

The guide that Byron used (published 1820) can be consulted at

https://books.google.ch/books?id=Qug6AAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&h...

Part II - Itinerary for the details. Things had no doubt improved by 1860.

OP MG 14 Nov 2022
In reply to EwanR:

Excellent Thanks!

 pneame 15 Nov 2022
In reply to jon:

It was somewhat challenging in the 1970s up the old road. Added to the aura!


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