Frendo spur Scottish grade

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What Scottish grade would the snow and ice sections of the Frendo Spur get when they're in decent condition?

 summo 17 Oct 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

It varies, I'd say half VS, half Scottish III. But the VS could have streaks of verglas or ice across it early on. It won't feel like a Scottish VS on a sunny afternoon as it'll be cold in the morning and the upper section could be very hard ice/neve that requires full concentration, there might not be bucket steps of any size to plod up.

To enjoy it I'd say you need be comfortable at uk VS/HVS and Scottish III ideally IV.  

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In reply to summo:

Thanks.

In reply to pancakeandchips:

Don't underestimate it which I did by doing it as my very first alpine route. It's a long route and if the rognon is included you need to be climbing E2 I would suggest.

Al

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 smithaldo 17 Oct 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips: Decent condition dunno…. Think it’s pretty rare to get the top good if the rock is ok/dry enough nowadays. (Maybe some of the Cham residents can confirm if this ever really happens now?)
 

We did it three years ago in black ice all the way from the bivi to top taking the right hand exit.

The top gully was very similar in moves to something like green gully I thought so grade iv.

however, mentally… it felt a lot harder than say  point five as it was scary with detached placage interspersed with bullet hard ice.
 

I was glad to be pretty comfy on scottish v’s/WI4 put it like that.

 David Rose 17 Oct 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

I did it early in a season when the snow/ice towards the top was very easy. Barely Scottish III, right hand exit, rock belays and runners, firm neve, a slight steepening towards the top but not at all taxing. So day two went fine. (We'd bivvied.)

Day one: not so much. After the first, easy scrambling bits, there was ice in the cracks, ice plating the walls of a series of rocky corners, and two slab pitches that felt scary and unprotected with snow on most of the holds. It felt like Scottish V, mixed. Significantly harder than  routes with a higher grade I've done in winter, such as the Swiss on the Courtes (Scottish III/IV?) or the Gabarrou-Albinoni (also no more than IV, with excellent rock protection).    

 jcw 17 Oct 2021
In reply to Doug:

Thanks for putting that first one up. Brought back many memories and of the sadly missed Simon4

 planetmarshall 17 Oct 2021
In reply to David Rose:

> Day one: not so much. After the first, easy scrambling bits, there was ice in the cracks, ice plating the walls of a series of rocky corners, and two slab pitches that felt scary and unprotected with snow on most of the holds. It felt like Scottish V, mixed. Significantly harder than  routes with a higher grade I've done in winter, such as the Swiss on the Courtes (Scottish III/IV?) or the Gabarrou-Albinoni (also no more than IV, with excellent rock protection).    

We had a similar experience in September a few years ago - much of the upper part of the rock section was in mixed condition which made going pretty slow. At the top we did a bit of a mixture of the rognon and the left hand exit.

Post edited at 18:17

 Rob Parsons 17 Oct 2021
In reply to planetmarshall:

> ... At the top we did a bit of a mixture of the rognon and the left hand exit.

What kind of 'mixture'? Once you're actually on the rognon, you're on it.

 planetmarshall 17 Oct 2021
In reply to Rob Parsons:

> What kind of 'mixture'? Once you're actually on the rognon, you're on it.

Don't really recall, to be honest. We started up rock, and finished up ice.

 Philb1950 17 Oct 2021
In reply to summo:

It’s an alpine route. There can be all sorts of conditions. The only ice on it if you follow the original route is the easy ice arête in good conditions. Above that is the rock rognon which is actually the crux of the rock climbing, outflanked nowadays left or right. Back in the day I did it from the first teleferique with my girlfriend as her first alpine route. It’s not a difficult, but very enjoyable day out.

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 summo 18 Oct 2021
In reply to Philb1950:

> It’s an alpine route. 

Really?

Of course it's an alpine route, but the op asked a question on how it might equate to uk grades. And there was certainly verglas and ice smears when we did it(likely from relatively recent snow melting off not permanent drainage lines), but we did do it in a single push with a fair early phrique up.

Yeah it is straightforward in normal conditions, but conditions do vary, that's the alps and it's worth folk having a grade or two in the bank if they wish to be quick or cope with tougher conditions. 

 PaulW 18 Oct 2021
In reply to jcw:

Simon4. Argumentative. Objectionable at times. But totally honest and willing to take the time to give alpine advice to anyone who asked.

Yes, sadly missed.

 blurty 19 Oct 2021
In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:

> Don't underestimate it which I did by doing it as my very first alpine route. It's a long route and if the rognon is included you need to be climbing E2 I would suggest.

> Al

Tried the rognon several years ago with a good rock climber who fancied it (& himself).

We go our arses kicked good and proper and had to do several abs off to the the snow on the left hand side.

The bit we were on (& it's a very big chunk of rock so there must be several variations) was going at about E1 but we were confronted by a wide slab covered in rotten ice - well beyond our meagre abilities.

A great experience though.


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