Ferry to Norway (again) - petition

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 Mal Grey 15 Feb 2019

Hey folks

There's a petition floating around regarding reinstating the ferry from Newcastle to Bergen.

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/reinstating-newcastle-bergen-ferry

Whilst I'm not sure there's an economic case for it sadly, if we don't shout about outdoor folks' potential use of it, it will be even harder to attract interest/investment.

Sure as hell beats the 3 day journey with canoes on the van that we made in 2017...

 Sl@te Head 15 Feb 2019
In reply to Mal Grey:

Signed

Would love to see that ferry route reinstated, was a regular user when it was running.

In reply to Sl@te Head:

Signed. Went to Denmark the summer before last- a long way to drive, and still a long way to go from there to Norway. If the ferry ran, I’d use it.

 subtle 15 Feb 2019
In reply to Mal Grey:

Good luck.

Shame the passenger ferry from Rosyth to Zebrugge also failed, a long drive from Scotland to get a ferry to Europe

 Mr. Lee 15 Feb 2019
In reply to Mal Grey:

That petition wording needs a bit more than two sentences if the reason for reinstatement is due to a possible Brexit no deal!

 summo 15 Feb 2019
In reply to Mal Grey:

Bit strange that a website which normally pushes environmental causes is running a petition for one of the most polluting forms of transport.  

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 Roberttaylor 15 Feb 2019
In reply to subtle:

Agreed, that ferry was superb. Many fond memories of getting to/from the continent that way as a kid.

 AndyC 15 Feb 2019
In reply to Mal Grey:

I used to take this at least once a year - nice drive over Hardangervidda to Bergen, get on the boat and enjoy a couple of beers watching the Norwegian bikers on their way to 'raid' Jorvik. You've never seen better behaved people in scary leathers! A good kip in the ridiculously low-priced, late availability Commodore class cabin and then back on the road again. 

Unfortunately, not viable then and unlikely to be viable now, regardless of the number of petitions submitted. There have been a couple of attempts to get it going again since 2008 but none have got financial backing.

 girlymonkey 15 Feb 2019
In reply to Mal Grey:

We drove to Sweden last summer in a van with no air con! It was a long, hot drive! Absolutely would have used a ferry if there had been one!

 wbo 15 Feb 2019
In reply to Mal Grey: can anyone explain the Brexit rationale? 

Help me with trips to Britain.  What would the boat do on the other days per week?

 d_b 16 Feb 2019
In reply to Mal Grey:

> Sure as hell beats the 3 day journey with canoes on the van that we made in 2017...

I would be more impressed if you had done it in 3 days with your van in the canoe.

Post edited at 10:58
 BusyLizzie 17 Feb 2019
In reply to Mal Grey:

So is it that the only ways to get to Norway from the UK are driving and flying? Seems teuly sad if so.

The ancient Vikings must be turning in their graves! We need a longship and some oars...

 girlymonkey 17 Feb 2019
In reply to BusyLizzie:

Sadly, that is correct. We were amazed when we looked into it last year. We drove from central Scotland, down through England, across the tunnel and right through Europe to get to Sweden.

 Tyler 17 Feb 2019
In reply to summo:

> Bit strange that a website which normally pushes environmental causes is running a petition for one of the most polluting forms of transport.  

I think you may be getting confused with cruise ships. Large ro-ro ferries are more polluting per mile than flying but not if the alternative is driving >3x the distance. Small ferries less polluting. But yeah, that left leaning website needs a kicking so carry on... 

Post edited at 09:39
 Neil Williams 17 Feb 2019
In reply to BusyLizzie:

> So is it that the only ways to get to Norway from the UK are driving and flying? Seems teuly sad if so.

> The ancient Vikings must be turning in their graves! We need a longship and some oars...


It's Ryanair etc wot's done that.

 d_b 17 Feb 2019
In reply to girlymonkey:

A weird side effect of that is that it isn't any harder to get utp to Tromso than it is to get to the fjords, so since the ferry went away most of my Norway trips have been arctic trips. 

I wouldn't mind being able to get a car full of gear for a family trip but there's no way I'm driving all the way with a 3 year old.

 Doug 17 Feb 2019
In reply to BusyLizzie:

In theory it would be possible to travel by ferry from Scotland to Denmark via the Faroes but no doubt expensive & not as quick as the old Newcastle/Bergen ferry which, from memory was overnight - I have memories of leaving Newcastle late afternoon & arriving in Bergen mid morning

In reply to Doug:

Scotland to the Faroes by ferry? Is that a current service?

 Doug 17 Feb 2019
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Just checked, and it seems it no longer runs

OP Mal Grey 17 Feb 2019
In reply to Mal Grey:

Cheers all.

The brexit comment on the petition is a bit odd, and certainly not my own motive for signing. Ingo is a very long term UK resident that I know slightly, but probably has brexit on the mind a bit at the moment! I'll give him some feedback, dunno if the wording can be edited and a bit more context added.

I guess the issue here is that for many people, flying makes more sense. However, lots of folk want to take their own specialist gear (for me, the canoes), or want to have their own vehicle. Norwegian car hire is frighteningly expensive, the previous time we went it cost us £700 to hire a vehicle after flying out there, which we only drove in for 3 hours at each end of a 9 day trip...

I have no knowledge of the environmental differences, per head say, of ferry v place v 3 day drive.

I like the "Vikings turning in their grave" comment. It does seem odd that 2 seafaring nations that share different sides of a sea, or not linked by ship!

In reply to Mal Grey:

Yes, our Denmark trip was a family camping holiday. It involved filling a berlingo + roofbox from Hull to Rotterdam, then driving all the way to the northern tip of Denmark. It would have been impossible for us to take all that stuff on a plane, and impossibly expensive to hire a car for a 3 week trip when we were there. The ferry so we could take our own car was the only way we could do it

Id love to do a similar trip to Norway; but that’s just too much driving to inflict on the family. If there was a ferry though, would jump at the chance

 Red Rover 17 Feb 2019
In reply to BusyLizzie:

> The ancient Vikings must be turning in their graves! 

Not if they could take a big metal flying ship and cross the sea in a couple of hours for the cost of a small piece of silver! Although it is a shame the ferries have stopped as you can't do much alpine stuff in Norway without a car and hiring over there is expensive. 

 summo 17 Feb 2019
In reply to Tyler:

> I think you may be getting confused with cruise ships. Large ro-ro ferries are more polluting per mile than flying but not if the alternative is driving >3x the distance. Small ferries less polluting. But yeah, that left leaning website needs a kicking so carry on... 

Got to love ukc.. praising striking kids whilst justifying using ferries to go climbing. 

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 d_b 17 Feb 2019
In reply to summo:

People on a climbing site talking about climbing?  Bugger me!  Must be some sort of liberal conspiracy!

Having read some of your views on physics, economics, international relations and your general reading comprehension I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that you aren't that bright.

And you can feel free to take that into account when the russians are about to roll over my house.

Post edited at 18:37
4
In reply to summo:

Summo, genuinely interested, and I don’t know the answer- but which would generate the most carbon emissions: 

- ferry Newcastle to Bergen, with car

- fly Newcastle to bergen

- drive Newcastle to Bergen via channel tunnel 

 summo 17 Feb 2019
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

> Summo, genuinely interested, and I don’t know the answer- but which would generate the most carbon emissions: 

> - ferry Newcastle to Bergen, with car

> - fly Newcastle to bergen

> - drive Newcastle to Bergen via channel tunnel 

I don't either, but regulations on burning bunker oil fuel need some work still, especially when compared to a car you drive down the street. But all those emissions; out at sea, out of mind? 

Fly, train to nearest hub and hire/drive must be most efficient, as you use the more efficient and most emission regulated forms of transport the most. 

 summo 17 Feb 2019
In reply to d_b:

> coming to the conclusion that you aren't that bright.

I'm not the one advocating using a ferry as environmentally sustainable transport for a group of outdoor people who claim to care about the future of the planet they life on. 

In reply to summo:

Perhaps, perhaps not-

“London to Bilbao in a 2L petrol engine car produces 0.26 tonnes of CO2, while a return flight produces 0.28 tonnes. By comparison, the same journey by train produces around 0.1 tonnes, while a ferry from Portsmouth generates 0.09 tonnes.”

https://www.wanderlust.co.uk/content/to-fly-or-not-to-fly/

Post edited at 21:47
 d_b 17 Feb 2019
In reply to summo:

I normally charge for this kind of consultancy, but here's a freebie.  Just for you.

Websites like 38degrees and ukclimbing are used by more than one person, and sometimes these people have different views.  It is worth remembering that next time you find yourself being horribly confused by mixed messages.

You are welcome!

Post edited at 21:58
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 Tyler 17 Feb 2019
In reply to summo:

> Got to love ukc.. praising striking kids whilst justifying using ferries to go climbing. 

I'm doing neither, just pointing out a factual inaccuracy you were using to make a political point. If you hadn't tried to 'own the libs' with a lie, there would have been no need to say anything.

 petenebo 17 Feb 2019
In reply to Sl@te Head:

> Signed

> Would love to see that ferry route reinstated, was a regular user when it was running.

Get Grayling on it - I gather he's a bit of an expert.

 kemmar 18 Feb 2019
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Talks are ongoing regarding a ferry link from Scotland to Norway. I think Aberdeen, Dundee, or Rosyth, are considered as suitable for a port. Heres hoping.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/p-o-willing-to-consid...

Regarding energy sources, theres been significant developments regarding hydrogen power in Orkney, in combination with shipbuilding near Glasgow. EU funding seems to be involved so i dont know what the present situation is.

https://news.st-andrews.ac.uk/archive/ferguson-marine-to-develop-renewables...

Post edited at 02:24
 Kemics 18 Feb 2019
In reply to Mal Grey:

Fingers crossed! A direct ferry link would make all of scandanvia so much more accessible

 summo 18 Feb 2019
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Per passenger(80kg person 20kg baggage) ferries can look acceptable when balanced against a plane. But most people here want to take a 2000kg car with them too, which tends to destroy the efficiency. 

In reply to summo:

Does it? I genuinely don’t know, but I get the impression that you don’t really either... 

You could have played up the sulphur emissions over carbon, and you’ve almost certainly got a point there. In the end, whatever method we use to travel it has consequences, and limiting our overall travel is the only way to make a real difference, I expect. 

But you’ve not persuaded me that a ferry to get to Norway would be worse than a short haul flight; far less that I’m a hypocrite for showing an interest in this as an option while supporting protests for more action on climate change. The answer to that can’t be for us all to return to the travelling patterns of the pre-industrial era, and banning a yearly family holiday. If the same pressure gets put on ferry design for environmental protection as has been applied to other transport methods, I think this can make a positive contribution to the effort- but there needs to be evidence of demand to make the necessary investment viable 

Post edited at 07:36
 summo 18 Feb 2019
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiEgI3...

A ferry passenger uses a third of the carbon per km of a flying person. The problem is the 2000kg car they take with them. 

Ps. No idea on the credibility of the source. 

 Ian W 18 Feb 2019
In reply to petenebo:

> Get Grayling on it - I gather he's a bit of an expert.

you think there's a market for a Ramsgate - Oslo ferry???

Do you really think Grayling is aware of such places as Hull or even North Shields?

 subtle 18 Feb 2019
In reply to kemmar:

> Talks are ongoing regarding a ferry link from Scotland to Norway. I think Aberdeen, Dundee, or Rosyth, are considered as suitable for a port. Heres hoping.

Fingers crossed something comes off, scandalous that Scotland only has ferries to islands or Ireland and no where else 


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