Everest North Route

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bigleggedboi 04 Oct 2018

Hi everyone,

At the moment I am undertaking an EPQ (extended project qualification) valued at around an AS exam to help with university application. My project aims to answer whether George Mallory and Sandy Irvine reached the top of Everest in 1924.

I've read quite extensively around the subject but a part of it that I can't really get into my head is the route they would have taken. More specifically the Second Step. If there's anyone here who has climbed Everest by the NE ridge rout and would be willing to answer a couple of questions about difficulty and length of time it took, that would be really appreciated.

Also if anyone's climbed and has any pictures they are happy to share I'd love to see them

Also, what theories do you all have. I'm leaning towards the theory that they didn't make it past the Second Step but if anyone has any others, please share them...

Thanks in advance

Alex

In reply to bigleggedboi:

This lot can't even work out why you can't get cheese on toast in an undisclosed cafeteria in N Wales.

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/the_pub/rare_bit-693789

If you could switch and do your EPQ on this - I would be really grateful

Either way, there is a great documentary about the Mallory / Irvine expedition, have you seen it?

youtube.com/watch?v=quj0FEt3U-U&

 AdrianC 04 Oct 2018
In reply to bigleggedboi:

If you can track him down, the person I'd ask about the second step is Conrad Anker.

In reply to bigleggedboi:

That's a can of worms you've opened there . . . 

Before I start, let me say that the closest I've come to Everest is reading books about it or watching programmes on TV.  Armchair pundit, that's me.  Nevertheless, and with a warning to bear that previous sentence in mind, here's my two pennorth.

The balance of evidence suggests that they didn't make it.  The second step is at a high altitude and tackled directly, isn't easy.  The chink of light for those in favour of an ascent comes with an alternative explored (though by whom I can't recall) to the right of the direct approach which was described as, I think, exposed, balancey climbing not unlike some routes Mallory had put up in Britain.  Otherwise, no; they didn't get there.

And if you're doing a project about this, perhaps that 'balance of evidence' approach is the right one to take.  For the naysayers there's a ton of evidence; you'll have come across this already, I presume.  For those who hold out a romantic hope that maybe, just maybe they did there isn't a lot; Odell may have seen them on the skyline above the second step but probably didn't and no-one else seems to have seen hide nor hair of them until Mallory's corpse was discovered.  The camera they carried is missing and, after nearly a century, the film within may well be beyond salvation even if it is recovered.

So, did they climb it? Case not proven.  The balance of evidence suggests to my mind that they did not but you must weigh the evidence yourself and come to your own verdict.  It's a little out of date now, but Walt Unsworth's 'Everest' has lots of detail about the expedition and good analysis around the question you seek to answer.  Worth a read if you haven't done so already (and worth a read in any case).

T.

 Pedro50 04 Oct 2018
In reply to bigleggedboi:

The beauty of the question is of course that we just don't know. Your project will need a little flannel expressing both sides of the argument before graciously reaching this conclusion although you may be permitted to express your own leanings. There was an article in a Mountain mag that speculated success (Holzel?) by extrapolating climb rates but it seemed far fetched. I could look it out if you are interested. 

 felt 04 Oct 2018
In reply to bigleggedboi:

Have you read Graham Hoyland's book? A recent take on it all, inc some interesting meteorological speculation.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Last-Hours-Everest-gripping-Mallory/dp/0007455755

 

bigleggedboi 04 Oct 2018
In reply to Pedro50:

Hi, yeah if you could find the article that would be brilliant

I've read a few of Tom Holzel's books and I just think his conclusions seem to rely on quite a lot of woolly evidence. Is this just me or are his views shared by a lot of people?

For example I read a part of his blog where he concluded Mallory had summited the Second Step based on his watch. I just think some of his conclusions are a bit far-fetched

Thanks man 

bigleggedboi 04 Oct 2018
In reply to AdrianC:

Ah, I hadn't thought of this

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll ping him an email and see if he's able to get back to me 

 Damo 04 Oct 2018
In reply to bigleggedboi:

> ... are his views shared by a lot of people?

No.

Conrad believes quite firmly that a) Mallory and Irvine did not summit Everest and b) they certainly did not do so by climbing the 2nd Step.

I've never been there. A traverse lower down and along the right, bypassing the step, has been done a couple of times. UK climber Jon Tinker did it in the early 90s with another climber, and there may have been others. It's generally considered to be an option if there is an unusual amount of snow on the route, which there almost never is in pre-monsoon, as snow is easier to traverse on than the loose, angled shale that is on much of the face. Messner's 1980 solo route took a similar tactic, but lower down and in snowy conditions.

 Krsoderstrom 09 Oct 2018
In reply to bigleggedboi:

Could try getting in contact with the Alpine Club? If you are based near London then you could try and use their library as well, sure there would be some useful books etc in there


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