UKH

I've just returned from a trip to the alps where our primary goal was Mont Blanc but we had to rethink due to the conditions.

We spoke to the guides in Zermatt and to the guardian at the Val d’Ayas hut and decided on the Castor WNW Flank as an alternative (after Zumsteinspitze a couple of days before). We reconfirmed with the guardian that the route was still in condition before we set off.

At about 2/3 height the route steepens to around 45°, we were expecting this, but the neve turned into a large icy band and the route disappeared. We turned back, we were not equipped with only single axes and a couple of ice screws each. We knew our skills and experience were not up to leading a large section of ice at 4000m.

After descending, we passed a team who we briefly talked to. They had technical axes, a rack of ice screws and far more experience and skills than us.

As we made our way back to Klein Matterhorn we watched the pair progress. When they got to the icy band, the lower climber stopped and the lead climbed the ice, probably 50m worth. We assume with a belay and ice screws. They were dots in the distance but we could see their progress.

We did not see them descend, but here is my question. Assuming they had to abseil down the icy band, what options would they have to set this up? If they used an ablakov in the ice they would have had to set it up from the neve above the band.  Maybe they could have scraped away the neve to get to ice where they were standing. 

I know this highlights my inexperience but I am keen to understand what their options might have been. I will not be tacking anything like that myself until I have more experience (or am being lead by someone that does).

On that sort of slope I wouldn't abseil unless something very odd had happened. If it was icy enough to be concerning, I'd be thinking of maybe two ice-screws between climbers then moving together until out of screws.  At that point, meet up and hand over supply of screws and repeat. 

If it were really steep, I guess hack around until I found solid ice and abandon a screw (or more).  In 25 years of climbing in the F-D range I have never needed to do this though.

Incidentally, take wardens' advice on routes with a pinch of salt.  Some are very clued up, others not so much, as you perhaps found.

Snow bollard possibly? Carving one out of good neve would feel pretty secure as an anchor on a low angled abseil.

On that sort of terrain, especially at this time of year, it should be easy enough to dig down into the snow until you hit hard ice, probably 30cm or so, and then make an abalakov. If it's under the snow I'd probably leave some cord rather than do a naked thread.

I've done this before. But if it's only 45 degrees I would probably just carefully solo down to the top of the ice, put in a screw to anchor myself, and then build a naked v thread in the ice while hanging off the screw.

If the whole slope is 45 degrees I wouldn't feel comfortable abseiling off a snow bollard. If there's a flat section above then maybe.

I know this isn't what you are asking, but maybe they went down to Quinto Sella?

I’m pretty sure the they were on a day hit from Zermatt. 

Thanks to all for the replies

Couldn't they just down climb it?

Maybe they were carrying parapentes.

We once retreated from a predominately snow route due to bad snow conditions which would only get worse during the day and make the descent dangerous. Whilst discussing our options we had a chat to a couple of continental climbers who passed us. Their advice was to retreat, when we questioned their intentions, they said that they knew the route and the best (safest) course of action would be to retreat, and then pointed out that they were carrying parapents and that they were going to fly back down.

Later saw them high in the sky.

John

They could, but that was not the question I was asking.

Maybe, but I don't think so, they had quite small packs.

Your question assumed they had to abseil, but I was merely questioning why you made that assumption.  I would have assumed they would have chosen the safest way to descend, which would be to downclimb.

Curious about the dislikes here.  Do  people think I have this wrong?

Sorry for my ignorance, why is down climbing safer than abseiling? Would this be the same as MG described?

I am assuming it would be.  Advantages are you have protection in but aren't relying on it.  For an accident to occur you have to fall and the protection has to fail.  If you abseil there is no redundancy, and any ice/snow belay is going to be fairly dubious.  It would also be a lot quicker than abseiling.

Got it, makes perfect sense, thank you.