Another First alpine trip... advice!

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 jafferton91 11 Aug 2018

I am looking for some advice re the Petite Aiguille Verte which is the intended objective for mine and my friends first trip to the alps.

We plan to do a bunch of stuff like visiting the mer de glace to practice the ice side of things, setting up crevasse rescue systems and the usual bits followed by some days on the other side (rouges) on rock objectives like crochues traverse or aiguille belvedere before heading to the PAV. 

With a scrambling/trad background the glacier travel and bergschrund are my main concerns for the route.

I have also looked at the Northwest Ridge Integrale which looks tempting so any advice on that would be great to.

We are not planning on hiring a guide so are going out with an attitude of "if this feels weird we will just turn around" which has served well in the past

 

Constructive comments only please!

 

Post edited at 11:14
 LakesWinter 11 Aug 2018
In reply to jafferton91:

After the practice you describe, you should be fine. It's a short walk over a crevassed glacier where there will almost certainly be a good trail in the snow- rope up correctly and you should be fine. There'll be lots of other people probably. It's a great mini alpine route with a bit of everything- snow slope, bergschrund, rock ridge, glacier.

OP jafferton91 11 Aug 2018
In reply to LakesWinter:

Looks fantastic! Is there in situ tat for the ab over the bergschrund usually?

Post edited at 12:26
In reply to jafferton91:

You should be good. There should be tat for the abseil - it is one of the most popular routes in the valley after all. The Integrale is more of the same (i.e. good, relatively easy alpine ground), and is generally much less busy until you meet the start of the normal route. It was fairly loose when I did it in June, probably because it gets less traffic than the normal route. Depending how you get on on either the NW Ridge or the NW Ridge Integrale, and how much time you have to spare, I'd suggest finishing up with the East Ridge ( Aiguille Grands Montets) - about PD+, very quick if you simul-climb the whole thing and finishes right at the cable car station. If you get one of the first lifts up in the morning you should have more than enough time to do two routes, unless you're pitching everything. 

If you have any other days to spare, the Clocher-Clochetons Traverse (AD 5a) is brilliant and pretty short, although busy. 

Post edited at 12:53
 J Whittaker 11 Aug 2018
In reply to jafferton91:

Only thing i would add is dont head out with specific objectives in mind and become focussed on them. I did this on my first trip and as a result we didnt get anything notable done as we backed off out of condition routes we went for just because we had them in our minds.

Better to have a long list of routes you want to do and pick the ones in good nick for the conditions you find. Speak to the guides office in the center of town and they will be able to give you up to date info and advice on if your chosen objective is suitable.

 Phil Lyon 11 Aug 2018
In reply to jafferton91:

agree with jwhittaker; one thing that can make a first alpine trip feel like a failure is too specific an ambition, although the petite aiguille verte is a good choice. Start easy and build up during your time there. Everything is bigger than it looks if you're used to UK.

We did the Petite Aiguille Verte a week ago and conditions were very lean. Expect the approach to be steeper and icier than the guidebook; we pitched the last 15m onto the ridge and placed screws. It was pure scrambling where the guide talked about mixed terrain; even the snow arete was rock. And lots of loose rock! We descended by abbing over the bergschrund under the NE ridge route which made the day feel like a real variety of alpine techniques. Again be very aware of knocking rocks off here, they will slide and bounce right into the glacier which can be often busy.

The comment about lean and icy seems to hold for a lot of routes out there at the moment, in the mountain office the Migot spur was described as not doable, the Frendo was being ice-pitched where people normally ascend steep snow etc.

All current info is up on https://www.chamoniarde.com/  

 

 

 pdone 11 Aug 2018
In reply to jafferton91:

In the August 2nd report for the Argentiere area (see Alpine Club website - News -Chamonix conditions) it states that there is a lot of ice on the Petite Verte and it is 'not for beginners'. 

 McHeath 12 Aug 2018
In reply to jafferton91:

Great idea to practise on the MdG first. Do everything  - set up a solid ice  belay as backup and practise holding and retrieving your partner with a basic pulley/prusik knot arrest system when he's jumped into a moderate crevasse on a bit of slack; jump in yourself and prusik out; enjoy! 

OP jafferton91 12 Aug 2018
In reply to pdone:

Saw that - thinking about Aiguille du Tour or something similar 

OP jafferton91 12 Aug 2018
In reply to McHeath:

I had thought about jumping into something! Is it advisable on mdg? Or would something with snow on it be better? Depending on the quality of backup anchor of course. 

 McHeath 12 Aug 2018
In reply to jafferton91:

I suppose my ideal practise crevasse would be 3-4m deep with a safe way of walking out; gently overhanging wall, good snow over ice at the top for both ice screw and ice axe belays ... best probably to play it by ear according to what you find. Maybe just lower gently down a steep wall instead of doing the jump if the top is too icy.

If you can find a reasonably steep snow slope which levels off at the bottom, practise ice axe braking from various positions, including a head first slide - start carefully till you get the feel of the forces involved!

 Merlin 13 Aug 2018
In reply to jafferton91:

You could practice the crevasse rescue stuff at home also. It doesn’t actually need to be on a glacier, a quarry works well...

 Pero 13 Aug 2018
In reply to jafferton91:

> I had thought about jumping into something! Is it advisable on mdg? Or would something with snow on it be better? Depending on the quality of backup anchor of course. 

Although I wouldn't actually discourage you from perfecting your crevasse rescue skills, it is an activity that you use rarely, if ever.  

I would put avalanche and rockfall awareness at top of the list. A route that may be very dangerous one day, after fresh snow and/or in warm conditions say, may be very safe two days later.

The best piece of advice I ever got was "always be observant on the hill".

Also, although you need to be able to use ice axe arrest in emergency, the point of axe and crampons is so that you do not fall on steep snow or ice in the first place. 

Really think about how you are balanced moving on snow. Learn to focus on every step - like you would scrambling or rock climbing. Learn and practice cramponing and different uses of the axe.

Personally, I would prioritise these bread and butter skills. Skills you use every day in the Alps.

Finally, learn to abseil safely and efficiently. 


New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...