UKH

Who nobbled Line of Duty?

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 kevin stephens 02 May 2021

It seems that sinister forces were at play to subvert the original climactic and action paced final expose script with an underwhelming cover up.

 Philip 02 May 2021
In reply to kevin stephens:

Yes. What a crap ending. Looks like writers gave up.

 Skyfall 02 May 2021
In reply to kevin stephens:

Jesus, Mary, Joseph and the wee donkey ... that was rubbish.

 Tom V 02 May 2021
In reply to Skyfall:

Definately a damp squib.

In reply to kevin stephens:

I've seen it described as a brilliant portrayal of current affairs in the UK. Governance being eroded, everything swept under the carpet, the corruption spreads...

In reply to kevin stephens:

I didn’t want it to reflect real life, I wanted to see justice done, I wanted to see powerful bullies get their comeuppance. I was disappointed. Still brilliant series though.  

Post edited at 23:43
In reply to kevin stephens:

99% of police programmes are the. Dysfunctional detective, lots of episodes of things which wouldn't happen in real life, random plot twist 10mins from the end. 

 Yanis Nayu 03 May 2021
In reply to kevin stephens:

I thought it was a bit of an anti-climax to say the least. 

 Jamie Wakeham 03 May 2021
In reply to kevin stephens:

I think I get what they were trying to say - that after all, evil is just banal and dull, and the crap rise to the top, and rooting out corruption is impossible.

But FFS we wanted an urgent exit, and Osborne to fall, and Pilkington to miraculously turn out to be alive so we could see the little sh1t get shot again.  And a baddie who has a name beginning with H.  The building of tension over the reveal of <spoiler redacted> was just a cheap soap tactic.

Too many completely unresolved threads.  Who signed off on Davidson's transport order?  Was Osborne in on it?  And Charmicheal?  And what the hell did Dot mean by 'H'?

I actually didn't mind the end of GoT... this has disappointed me much more!

 kevin stephens 03 May 2021
In reply to kevin stephens:

With hindsight the worse thing was all the hype by the BBC before and during this series, much more than previous ones.

How much did James Nebitt get paid just to allow his photo to be used to give false hope to the viewers?

 Tony Buckley 03 May 2021
In reply to kevin stephens:

Damp squib of an ending; just like the previous series.  The main purpose of the final episode was to make sure another series is commissioned.

T.

 Philip 03 May 2021
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

Exactly. It's like Holmes without Moriarty. No spider at the centre of the web controlling everything.

Maybe the real take away is for evil to triumph, all that is required is that weak/corrupt police officers do nothing. No over arching evil mastermind, just a lot of grubby little people pocketing something for looking the other way.

Osbourne isn't "bent" his only wrong deed was trying to cover up to "protect" his officers/reputation. Carmichael is just a brown nose.

There were corrupt ones who made money (Buckells and presumably Thurwell) but most of the rest were blackmailed after doing something minor or tricked into something and then twisted.

I think that was the point of Ted's last minute confession. If they all just bury a little wrong thing then they all contribute to the overall corruption.

In reply to kevin stephens:

> With hindsight the worse thing was all the hype by the BBC before and during this series, much more than previous ones.

There are enough people bashing the BBC that I don’t have an issue with them reminding people when they do something brilliant and, although the ending was weak, there’s not been anything on tell that has had me gagging for the next episode since the early seasons of Homeland 

Post edited at 11:07
 MonkeyPuzzle 03 May 2021
In reply to kevin stephens:

Intrigued by the hype around LoD we watched the first episodes of the first series were absolutely astounded and then hysterical at how absolutely terrible it is. The series starts with a man being shot dead by police in the wrong flat because a "6" on his front door has slipped so it reads "9" and we thought we'd misunderstood that it was a parody.

Does it get dramatically better or do you all have terrible taste? 

 Jamie Wakeham 03 May 2021
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

>...And Charmicheal? 

Mary, Joseph and the wee donkey - what was autocorrect up to here?

I thought the James Nesbitt ruse was hilarious!  A neat little comment on the cult of celebrity actors.

 upordown 03 May 2021
In reply to Ridge:

> This was surely the important question of the final episode:

Along with why did they choose such a fat dog? Are people blind to canine obesity?

 Eric9Points 03 May 2021
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> Intrigued by the hype around LoD we watched the first episodes of the first series were absolutely astounded and then hysterical at how absolutely terrible it is. The series starts with a man being shot dead by police in the wrong flat because a "6" on his front door has slipped so it reads "9" and we thought we'd misunderstood that it was a parody.

> Does it get dramatically better or do you all have terrible taste? 

I don't get it either.

I'd watched bits of the last series and found it overwrought and unconvincing. My wife watched this series so I saw bits of it. Like you I thought the style bordered on parody and I'm looking forward to a sketch writer taking the piss out of it. 

Didn't think much of the characters either, rather superficial and unconvincing.

In reply to Eric9Points:

> I don't get it either.

> I'd watched bits of the last series and found it overwrought and unconvincing.

I know! It’s almost like the whole thing is made up for entertainment purposes!

> My wife watched this series so I saw bits of it. Like you I thought the style bordered on parody and I'm looking forward to a sketch writer taking the piss out of it. 

Why wait?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=LG36jUN88mQ&feature=share

Post edited at 13:22
 Eric9Points 03 May 2021
In reply to Tyler:

> I know! It’s almost like the whole thing is made up for entertainment purposes!

Thing is I don't find overwrought and unconvincing entertaining.

In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> The series starts with a man being shot dead by police in the wrong flat because a "6" on his front door has slipped so it reads "9" and we thought we'd misunderstood that it was a parody.

Remind yourself of the details of how Jean Charles de Menezes died and then tell me again how unrealistic that Line of Duty opening seems...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes

By and large, I really respect our police, especially by comparison with the Yanks. But let's not kid ourselves that incompetently shooting the wrong person is beyond the bounds of possibility for some of them.

 Sean Kelly 03 May 2021
In reply to kevin stephens:

Well if nothing else it has really raised the profile of the 'wee brown donkey', now that's an idea for a new series?

 ripper 03 May 2021
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

> I thought the James Nesbitt ruse was hilarious!  A neat little comment on the cult of celebrity actors.

Is that why they used a photo with so much eyeliner?

 MonkeyPuzzle 03 May 2021
In reply to Luke90:

> > The series starts with a man being shot dead by police in the wrong flat because a "6" on his front door has slipped so it reads "9" and we thought we'd misunderstood that it was a parody.

> Remind yourself of the details of how Jean Charles de Menezes died and then tell me again how unrealistic that Line of Duty opening seems...

> By and large, I really respect our police, especially by comparison with the Yanks. But let's not kid ourselves that incompetently shooting the wrong person is beyond the bounds of possibility for some of them.

Well this escalated quickly! I can assure you that a belief in the infallibility of the police is any part of why I thought it was absolute clown shoes.

I'm well aware of the De Menezes case which was down to him being positively, but wrongly, identified as an accomplice to the failed London tube bombers. What it was not, was a shooting of a man the police had never seen before because a house number was wonky, like planning taking a door just involves walking up to it for the first time only using a door number for identification.

This gets away from all the other hilarious crapness of script, scenarios and acting. It's been a while since I've watched an actor do "conflicted" by switching between looking ahead with an evil smirk and looking to the side with an anxious frown.

I take it from everyone's responses that it in fact doesn't get better.

Don't listen to me if you enjoy it of course. I'll zip it. Promise.

In reply to Eric9Points:

> Thing is I don't find overwrought and unconvincing entertaining.

Cool, what other programs on TV don’t you like?

 petemeads 03 May 2021
In reply to kevin stephens:

I have not watched this as a series but sat through last night's effort. I thought the ending was a cop-out...

In reply to kevin stephens:

Just watched it and agree that it was a very anticlimactic ending. However, I'm prepared to forgive quite a lot in return for the chance to use "now we're sucking diesel" in work meetings!  

 Hooo 03 May 2021
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

I've not seen LoD but that sounds all too believable to me. Years ago a guy I knew who was a small time dope dealer had his door kicked in and a gun in his face when the police raided his flat. After a bit if interrogation it transpired that they'd got the wrong floor and they were after the guy in the flat upstairs.

 Tom V 03 May 2021
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

Your taste is obviously different/superior to "ours" so in the interests of good TV viewing perhaps you could suggest an English or American cop show which has none of the faults you found in Line of Duty.
I don't know if you watched The Fall but would be interested to hear your take on it.

Post edited at 20:26
 Eric9Points 03 May 2021
In reply to Tom V:

I think it's worth comparing it with Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy. 

Like comparing Dickens to Dan Brown or Motzart to Bruce Springsteen.

 bigbobbyking 03 May 2021
In reply to Eric9Points:

> I'm looking forward to a sketch writer taking the piss out of it. 

Hows this for you

https://twitter.com/KieranCHodgson/status/1389186251564142598?s=20

 wintertree 03 May 2021
In reply to Tom V:

1985’s Edge of Darkness is the most recent British crime drama I’d consider standout rather than yet more prime time TV fodder.

In reply to wintertree:

I consider GBH to be the benchmark, but what do I know, I love Line of Duty. I would have been very disappointed if all of the questions where answered last night.

In reply to kevin stephens:

I thought it was great. Though it seems these days that if the public don't get exactly the ending they demand, they throw a hissy fit.

In reply to kevin stephens:

> With hindsight the worse thing was all the hype by the BBC before and during this series, much more than previous ones.

Did the BBC really hype it up? Or was social media not doing that already? I mean - what specifically did the BBC do, that wasn't just in response to media interest?

 wintertree 03 May 2021
In reply to The New NickB:

That and edge of darkness had something in common in terms of production - they were stories with an ending before they were filmed, none of this responding to viewing figures mid way through a run and designing season finales you can end or renew on depending on the ratings.  A lot of shark jumping seems to happen when nobody really knows how many seasons are ahead.  

Closed, pre-planned, self contained.  Viewer satisfaction awaits.  Scarlet Witch being a recent example.  

 kevin stephens 03 May 2021
In reply to planetmarshall:

> Did the BBC really hype it up? Or was social media not doing that already? I mean - what specifically did the BBC do, that wasn't just in response to media interest?

Regular interviews with cast members re the plot during morning news progammes for one

 Skyfall 03 May 2021
In reply to kevin stephens:

..and Jonathan Ross

 MonkeyPuzzle 03 May 2021
In reply to Tom V:

> Your taste is obviously different/superior to "ours" so in the interests of good TV viewing perhaps you could suggest an English or American cop show which has none of the faults you found in Line of Duty.

> I don't know if you watched The Fall but would be interested to hear your take on it.

Delete "different" and leave "superior".

I really liked The Fall. Prime Suspect. Luther was silly but enjoyable.

The Wire is the obvious benchmark. But, and I'm genuinely not trying to piss on everyone's parade, I thought LoD was obviously and extremely shit. Like genuinely parody levels of awfulness. Like I loved A Touch of Frost and Inspector Morse, so not remotely averse to TV popular cop shows, but LoD being a potent cocktail of total shitness.

 Pedro50 03 May 2021
In reply to wintertree:

> 1985’s Edge of Darkness is the most recent British crime drama I’d consider standout rather than yet more prime time TV fodder.

Adored it but the climax when Jedburgh claps two pieces of U235 together at Gleneagles (?) to form a critical mass was no better than a LoD shoot out was it? 

Caveat my memory may be faulty after 35 years.

 Tom V 03 May 2021
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

I will concede that halfway through last night's episode i was wishing it would end so I could get back to watching Sneaky Pete but as one who watched the entire output of Line of Duty ( which it sounds like you haven't) I think your assessment is skewed badly. But if anyone judged the programme based on its finale and a couple of other random episodes  I wouldn't be at all surprised at some negativity in the comments.

( Having mentioned my current favourite, I will commit myself now to saying that SP  is superior to both Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. If I didn't know he was dead i would swear that Elmore Leonard was involved in its writing and production. Apparently S3 is a disappointment and led to its being chopped but I havn't got there yet)

In reply to Eric9Points:

> I think it's worth comparing it with Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy. 

> Like comparing Dickens to Dan Brown or Motzart to Bruce Springsteen.

Motzart? Not a patch on Bark.

In reply to Pedro50:

> Adored it but the climax when Jedburgh claps two pieces of U235 together at Gleneagles (?) to form a critical mass was no better than a LoD shoot out was it? 

It was plutonium and it wasn't the climax (that was Bob Peck turning into a tree...).

Also what was wrong with the scene at Gleneagles? It's a feasible way to initiate a criticality, and it's happened accidentally in the past.

 Tom V 04 May 2021
In reply to Ridge:

Joe Don Baker. His "Molly" in Charley Varrick is one of the best baddies in film and a worthy progenitor for Anton Chigurh.

In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> I really liked The Fall. Prime Suspect. Luther was silly but enjoyable.

I also enjoyed Prime Suspect - but a forensic scientist who moonlights as a cage fighter? Really?

In reply to planetmarshall:

> I also enjoyed Prime Suspect - but a forensic scientist who moonlights as a cage fighter? Really?

Wasn't that Silent Winess, where pathogists got to kick in doors, infiltrate Columbian cartels and tell the police what to investigate?

In reply to Ridge:

> Wasn't that Silent Winess, where pathogists got to kick in doors, infiltrate Columbian cartels and tell the police what to investigate?

Ah yes of course - always get those mixed up.

 wintertree 04 May 2021
In reply to Pedro50:

> Adored it but the climax when Jedburgh claps two pieces of U235 together at Gleneagles (?) to form a critical mass was no better than a LoD shoot out was it? 

I thought it was making several different and wide ranging points that go far beyond a shoot out, and that went right in to questions that are as serious today as they were then. 

As Ridge said, getting a criticality from putting too much together has happened in the past, and far more recently that one would have hoped. (1999 at Tokaimura).

In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> Intrigued by the hype around LoD we watched the first episodes of the first series were absolutely astounded and then hysterical at how absolutely terrible it is. The series starts with a man being shot dead by police in the wrong flat because a "6" on his front door has slipped so it reads "9" and we thought we'd misunderstood that it was a parody.

> Does it get dramatically better or do you all have terrible taste? 

Do you ever read/listen to the news. That is the sort of thing that actually happens.

 MonkeyPuzzle 04 May 2021
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

I expected people to argue that LoD was in fact good, but I did not expect people to argue that its realism was what made it good.

In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

The only criticism you level at it was that you thought it unbelievable and that you gave up on it as 'parody' right at the beginning.  If you watch a show with that mindset how are you going to like it?

 Sean Kelly 04 May 2021
In reply to Andy Clarke:

> Motzart? Not a patch on Bark.

Nor Bruce Sprigteen!

Post edited at 14:24
 MonkeyPuzzle 04 May 2021
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

No, I also criticised the scenarios, the script and the acting. I forgot to mention the direction as well.

I genuinely went in wanting to have another series to get hooked on, but mention the opening scene as it was a real "Woah. So this is Line of Duty?" moment. Knowing Vicky McClure and later Stephen Graham were in it I was clearly expecting something different.

Shall I shake the Etch-a-Sketch that is my brain and have another go then?

 Lankyman 04 May 2021
In reply to Andy Clarke:

> Motzart? Not a patch on Bark.

But his Motzarella cheese is pretty good. Anyway, I enjoyed watching Lod even though I struggled with keeping up at times. I'm easily pleased and they've left enough hanging in the air for the Christmas special one-off.

Post edited at 16:25
 El Greyo 04 May 2021
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> I'm well aware of the De Menezes case which was down to him being positively, but wrongly, identified as an accomplice to the failed London tube bombers. What it was not, was a shooting of a man the police had never seen before because a house number was wonky, like planning taking a door just involves walking up to it for the first time only using a door number for identification.

I think the De Menezes case shows a similar level of incompetence and mishap.  He simply lived in the same block of flats as an address linked to the investigation and had brown skin. The surveillance team did not positively, but wrongly, identify him as an accomplice but flagged him as someone that warranted further attention. Somewhere in the trailing and miscommunications that followed it turned into an imminent threat and he was tragically killed. The officer in charge of the operation later went on to become the Met Police Commissioner.

In the Line of Duty episode, the failure of intelligence to correctly direct the firearms officers to the correct flat (who would never have been to the flat before), was exactly the point of Arnott's anger and why he felt the shooting should be properly investigated and not covered up. Yes, it is (I hope) unrealistic, but only a small stretch from some real events. If you can't cope with that, then the series (and a lot of drama on TV in general) is not for you. 

I enjoy the series very much, mainly because it doesn't follow formulas and I could never guess what was going to happen. It's just a bit of escapism. It does have some good performances, not from the three principals particularly but from some of the guest stars such as Keeley Hawes, Daniel Mays and Kelly McDonald. Actually, I like Adrian Dunbar, but he's clearly not taking it too seriously.

 El Greyo 04 May 2021
In reply to kevin stephens:

The last episode was definitely an anti-climax, but, in retrospect, I liked it. Part of the theme of the series was the battle between Ted, who thought there was a criminal mastermind high in the police, and the establishment, who wanted it to be a few bad apples and to sweep it all under the carpet.

In the end, it turned out to be somewhere in between. No mastermind, just a number of officers (some who were in high ranks) corrupted by OCGs by a mixture of blackmail, bribery and intimidation. Much more nuanced than a big explosive finish, with a nod to the banality of evil and a comment on the apparent acceptance of the 'void of integrity'.

I think they should leave it there now, LoD has had its day.

 r0b 04 May 2021
In reply to El Greyo:

The ending worked pretty well for me. My one slight criticism is that there didn't seem quite enough material to sustain the last episode; it might have been better as 6 episodes with a 90 minute last episode, like in season 3.

In reply to Tom V: that’s easy - The Wire...a work of art on many levels.

 NathanP 04 May 2021
In reply to wintertree:

> 1985’s Edge of Darkness is the most recent British crime drama I’d consider standout rather than yet more prime time TV fodder.

1985 - modern rubbish! It all started going downhill when they brought in sound then colour at the local cinema. When I was a lad, all this was fields and you could leave your door open without worrying somebody would steal your widescreen TV and knee-top computer thingey...

 Pedro50 04 May 2021

I greatly enjoyed the earlier police corruption drama Between the Lines 1992/3 series 1&2 (3 was rubbish) starring Neil Pearson. Not sure if these things stand the test of time though. 

 MonkeyPuzzle 04 May 2021
In reply to Pedro50:

Currently being repeated on BBC4(?), so all the episodes are up on iPlayer.

 MonkeyPuzzle 04 May 2021
In reply to Frank the Husky:

> that’s easy - The Wire...a work of art on many levels.

Just on the final series for the fourth time.

Breathtaking in its ambition, notwithstanding that it actually lands nearly everything and misses virtually nothing. Still upset about Bodi.

In reply to Frank the Husky:

> that’s easy - The Wire...a work of art on many levels.


But if that was the benchmark for decent cop shows there wouldn't be much TV worth watching.

In reply to wintertree:

> 1985’s Edge of Darkness is the most recent British crime drama I’d consider standout rather than yet more prime time TV fodder.


The Shadowline was excellent

 r0b 04 May 2021
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

But even The Wire lost it a bit in the last season

 Tom V 04 May 2021
In reply to Frank the Husky:

Glad you didn't use the often quoted "Shakespearean" adjective.  I thought The Wire and The Sopranos were very good . That's about it. They weren't nonpareils. In a different genre, Deadwood beat the socks off both of them, I thought.

 Babika 04 May 2021
In reply to kevin stephens:

If you are feeling bereft of OCGs at the end of LoD I can recommend Gangs of London

OCGs on steroids. Had me hiding behind the cushions a bit. 

No bent coppers or wee donkeys yet but can you spot the peaky blinder?

 wintertree 04 May 2021
In reply to NathanP:

> 1985 - modern rubbish! It all started going downhill when they brought in sound then colour at the local cinema

Just compare Quatermass to a modern “timey wimey” era Dr Who...

In reply to kevin stephens:

In recent times, I think the best ending to a long-running series was achieved by Spiral. The whole last season struck me as more cinematic than plenty of stuff I've seen on the big screen and the gorgeous final frames could have graced a nouvelle vague classic. Surprising and just the right side of sentimental for me, though others will no doubt insist it indulged. Coeurs de pierre!

 Tom V 05 May 2021
In reply to Andy Clarke:

I've been  a devoted fan of Spiral from the beginning. I think it bowed out with grace and style. 

Post edited at 08:59
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

I agree - Bodi met a sad end and he nearly escaped, as was the case with D'Angelo. I'm always pleased that Bubbles & Cutty made it out alive, and I hope that Slim Charles & Nicky Sobotka did too. I'm on the third season for the fourth time now as it always seems to be on Sky Atlantic and I can't resist

 Tom V 06 May 2021
In reply to Frank the Husky:

Crikey! Four viewings is a lot. I think my record is 3 with Band of Brothers and that was only one series.

 MonkeyPuzzle 06 May 2021
In reply to Tom V:

Rewatching The Wire is great for catching the little cameos, sometimes for just a couple of seconds, of people who turn out to be major characters often a season or two later. I've picked up new bits each time I've watched, plus introducing new people to it is really fun.

In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

I enjoyed LoD on the whole...some very good interview scenes throughout the series, particularly Lindsy Denton (who you will not have come across because she is only in series 2 and 3)

Yes, there were some ridiculous moments like Dot's urgent extraction ....but in a sea of dross, it stood out as very entertaining.

I recently arrived late to The Unforgotten. I really enjoyed that, good writing, good acting , more detective work and far less guns. 

In reply to Frank the Husky:

Couldn't believe my luck as I sat on the runway at Heathrow about to lift off to Melbourne, and found the Wire series on the entertainment system. Sorted there and back


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