UKH

In my childhood I watched a western which had a gruesome sequence. 

The setting is the American frontier. Settlers in a convoy of wagons and/or stagecoachs are pursued by indians. They find an amphitheater-like valley where they can circle up and make a wagon fort. Here they are able to maintain defence for maybe a day or two before they are eventually rescued by the cavalry. However before that, one settler is captured by the indians, bound to a wheel and roasted alive over a slow fire for a whole night, screaming in order to terrify the other settlers into submission. In the ending the protagonist finds the still alive person on the wheel. He begs to be shot to end his misery, and he is handed over a gun.

It has bothered me for some time that I can't remember the title of the movie, let alone the director and actors.

Duel at Diablo. I haven't seen it but my Google-Fu is strong today. 

"western movie character roasted wheel" and clicked on the first hit, to check it

I was hoping this was going to be a “which is the best western” thread. Anyway, my favourites are:

High Noon

The Wild Bunch

Seven Samurai (which isn’t strictly a western but inspired Sam Peckinpah to make the former and was remade as the inferior but hugely entertaining Magnificent Seven)

That's the one! Thanks!

I can't believe, I couldn't find it myself. I'll demote myself to google white belt

Have it your way, sir!

Django Unchained

The Hateful Eight

Open Range

Unforgiven

Everything Sergio Leone

I was very unimpressed with the Hateful Eight. Worst by far of the Tarantino films.

Clint Eastwood did some brilliant spaghetti westerns, particularly the Good, the Bad and the Ugly, but I still think his best western was the Outlaw Josey Wales followed closely by the Unforgiven.

Tombstone

Red River, The Searchers, Shane; 

Appaloosa,  Slow West, The Long Riders, The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid, The Assassination of  Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford, Heaven's Gate........and the more recent True Grit.

It was actually on yesterday.

Blazing Saddles. 

On which channel, please? 

I very much liked Open Range until the final big gunfight which a) felt very out of keeping with the pace and tone of the rest of the film and b) was worse than the worst of any third-rate action movie shootout in terms of infinite bullets and amazing precision by the good guys. It was a real shame especially as it is some of Costner’s best acting and his scenes with Annette Bening are great 

For me, a mix of classical, revisionist and neo: High Noon, The Searchers, Once Upon a Time in the West, Unforgiven, The Assassination of Jesse James & No Country for Old Men.

If we’re allowing neo, then I’d have to add Breaking Bad, where White wears a black hat.

Lawman with Burt Lancaster 

Hostiles is very good.

As classics go, The Searchers would be up there especially as it was based on the true story of Cynthia Ann Parker.

My favourite might still be Dances with Wolves but only because it was the first to really introduce the idea that the Native Americans weren't the bad guys. You could argue that Richard Harris's "A man called horse" got there first.

I liked The Missouri Breaks and Tom Horn.

I'm still waiting for "Blood Meridian" to be made into a film.

"The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance"

I wanted to say that but you beat me to it with the titles!

Big disappointment , that, Fred, having watched it for the first time ever this year.

The Ballad of Buster Scruggs is excellent, perhaps not a 'proper' Western.

True Grit. 

"...but I still think his best western was the Outlaw Josey Wales followed closely by the Unforgiven."

Both cracking films, but I reckon both pipped by Pale Rider.

Buster S is excellent in places, dire in others. ( I joined netflix just to watch it so actually I owe it some gratitude) Since you like Buster i assume you mean the second version of True Grit?

I hope you aren't disappointed. When I first read Thomas Eidson's "St Agnes Stand" I was convinced it would be the best basis for a western movie ever. His second novel was nearly as good and it became "The Missing", an OK  thing but disappointing in most respects.

I think that if audiences can sit through lengthy  films like "The Irishman" there is still hope that someone with faith in the genre will remake "Lonesome Dove" as a three hour plus feature film. It would wipe the floor with all the rest, if properly done.

Sorry for the pedantry but The Unforgiven is a 1960 John Huston Western starring Burt Lancaster and Audrey Hepburn.

The 1992 Clint Eastwood film is title simply “Unforgiven” (after they decided to change it from “The William Munny Killings”)

 I wasn't aware of that.Thanks for the info!! 

I saw somewhere he was 90 now. 

Edit: Clint Eastwood turned 90 on the 31st May this year. 

The trouble is there are so many. Soldier blue dealt with the Sand Creek massacre and was, in its day, one of the most graphic depictions on film but I was too young at the time to be allowed to go to the cinema to see it.

I wasn't saying that "A man called horse" was one of my favourites, just that it might have been one of the earlier movies that had some sympathy with the Native Americans. 

I don't think it would work without Robert Duvall and I don't think the makeup team could get him to be young enough. Some things should be left alone.

Off topic slightly but the re-make I'd like to see is "Deliverance"

Also sounds a bit like the Director's Cut for Episode 13/Series 4/"Freedom Flight" of The Little House on the Prairie.

I think Ed Harris would slip into the Gus McCrae role like an old shoe. Agewise he's only half a generation behind, if that. I 'll have to give Woodrow some thought.

It’s been done. Jack Palance won an Oscar in it. It was in the very early 1990s.

It was....

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City Slickers! 

'Pan Shot!'

I was thinking of the original, and the Rooster Cogburn sequel. Must watches just to see John Wayne being John Wayne really. 

LOL. I was thinking of something a little "darker".

Southern Comfort? 

Not exactly a Western is it? 

I didn’t claim that it was. Follow the thread, do try to keep up! 

I lost track at Deliverance I think. Never mind.

That was where the track deviated (assuming you accept Breaking Bad (?!) ) 😃

Now that is a movie that doesn't need a re-make. Ry Cooder's music is still one of the best matched scores ever.

Anyway, this'll test ya. There was a scene in an old western where the young wife asked the drifter/hired hand/stranger (I can't remember the character) if he liked the meal she just cooked and his answer was "no mam, I didn't".

I want to say it was "Shane" but I'm not certain. Any other thoughts?

Pretty sure thst Shane praises her cooking politely because she goes all  giddy  about it.

As Tom says, unlikely Shane unless there is a scene we’ve forgotten (quite possible in my case). And...no idea and I used up all my Google-fu on the OP 

I agree. But it was of that era and it has been bugging me for years. Probably got some of the wording wrong which is why Google won't find it for me.

From IMDB:

[after the meal that the Starretts share with Shane]
Shane: That was an elegant dinner, Mrs. Starrett.

Sorry, can't find the other western either.

Breaking Bad is a classic neo-western, as a hundred published theses will attest. I see Southern Comfort as a Vietnam movie. US soldiers come a cropper wading through impenetrable swamps ambushed by better adjusted, better motivated natives. And a good film with a tremendous soundtrack, as we’ve previously agreed.

The classic Western era was the fifties into the sixties. To be perfectly honest, I will watch some real tripe if the scenery is good. My first extended trips Stateside were in Utah and other western states, the classic high desert of the Colorado Plateau. Walking around places like Arches and Canyonlands was amazing. I often find myself ignoring plot and action and studying the background. If I remember correctly, Shane has the Tetons as a backdrop? John Ford famously used Monument Valley for several of his films - never did get there sadly. One actor who's often overlooked these days is Randolph Scott. Not put on a pedestal like John Wayne but I have enjoyed several of his (and the scenery!). There is one of his films where he plays against type (he was usually cast as a wholesome good guy). I've a poor memory for titles but it may have been Seven Men from Now, the one with a young Lee Marvin in? The action seems to take place in the arid area behind the Sierra Nevada, either California or Nevada? Lots of granite boulders to crouch behind and shoot from.

Has anyone noted Paris, Texas. Especially for that music soundtrack, the landscape, and Natasha Kinski!

Soundtrack is great, Ry Cooler I think.

Wyatt Earp gets my vote. True Grit, both versions, are witty and entertaining.

I too enjoy the sceneries in some of the classical westerns. As my memory is probably even poorer than yours, I use IMDB a lot. So here's a link to the filming locations of that particular film, Seven Men From Now:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049743/locations?ref_=tt_dt_dt

When googling pictures of Alabama Hills the landscape appears arid and with boulders , as you say.

Great soundtrack - has Cooder ever written a duff one? - for a superb road movie. I know it's a bit of a riff on The Searchers, but I think calling it a neo-western is a bit of a stretch. Not enough guns! 

Yes, it was music by Ry Cooder with a 'd'. I blame autocorrect, not you

I'll break it here: I have been secretly in love with Nastassja Kinski since Tess

..and how could I have forgotten Hombre?

Before he became one of the coolest cop writers around Elmore Leonard wrote some cracking Western stories and this is one. Directed by Martin Ritt with a taciturn performance by Newman in one of his finest roles.

(Good trailer on You Tube if you can ignore the voiceover)

Leonard also wrote the stories which were filmed as 3.10 to Yuma and Valdez Is Coming as well as the screenplay (I think) for Joe Kidd. And he created the TV series Justified.

As soon as I saw the pictures I recognised them as the film location. I suppose it was reasonably accessible from LA/Hollywood. I think several classic Westerns were shot in Mexico (cheaper) on the same big lot. Can't remember it now but one particular mountain in the background is very distinct. Wayne certainly used it.

Have 1000 points for being the second person ever to spell her name correctly on these forums!

Yes, Southern Comfort is a Vietnam movie. As mentioned earlier, nobody is claiming that it is a western. 
I have no issue with Breaking Bad being classed as a "neo-western", my punctuation was there because Wanderer100 questioned Southern Comfort in a manner that suggested that THEY should also maybe have been questioning Breaking Bad. 

I'm glad I refrained from suggesting Battle Beyond the Stars  

(there was some statement, I am not sure who from, regarding the death of the Western movie genre after the 1960s. Something along the lines of "The Western didn't die, it just went into outer space" - which reminds me, I have Outland to watch...)

Was one of the various on Freeview, unfortunately I only noticed it when I finished watching something else and was scrolling down to see what else there was to watch next (if anything !). It had just come to the finale with the graves all in line and the cavalry about to ride away.

Best western scene ever: "Get three coffins ready."

youtube.com/watch?v=Sv_GcxkmW4Y&

Maybe I should begin giving points every time someone spelled the Prusik correctly 

3.10 to Yuma is a great film. The Charlie Prince character is truly menacing.

Thanks. I am on TV rehab after years of no incoming TV. I don’t have any subscribed streaming content, and basically only look at iPlayer, AllFour, YouTube and sometimes the BFI online player free content, Chromecasting from a tablet (TV is not a Smart TV). I have no idea how to set up the other Freeview channels, do you have to install them all as apps? A bit off topic for this thread ! 

I also enjoyed Jeremiah Johnson, again as it appealed to my curiosity about Native American culture and this film at least challenged some of the stereotypes.

They did attempt "All the pretty horses" and it was just ok but failed to capture the darkness in McCarthy's writing. I guess they managed it a little in "No Country for old men" and failed again in "The Road"

I think there is a division, sometime after "Dances with wolves" between the classic old school "Western" and more modern interpretations of the era.

As I said before, "Hostiles", with Christian Bale and Wes Studi, seems to attempt balance between both sides of the European/Native American story while accepting the true horrors inflicted on Native Americans.

When I was wee the only western that emptied the streets of kids was the one depicting the Battle of the Little Bighorn where all the cavalry bastards got wiped out by Sitting Bull and the American Indians for once. 

Just found a drama docuseries on netflix fronted by Robert Redford simply called The West. May be familiar to some of you but I'm looking forward to it!

"The Long Riders" is a cracking film. About the James and Younger gang. The main characters were played by brothers to make it more authentic. Credited as the first of the modern Westerns.

By whom? What about The Wild Bunch, Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, The Hired Hand, Little Big Man etc??

The "mud and rags" subdivision of the genre. Carradines and Keaches? 

A lot of the classic westerns of the 1950s were almost in effect, series with a particular star associated with a particular director. There were the John Ford films with an almost ensemble cast headed by John Wayne; then there was Anthony Mann with the films starring James Stewart and Bud Boeticcher with a number starring Randolph Scott.

It is quite possible it was from something like The High Caparral but, if not, I can't think it would be from any of the other "Western" series.

Not bad but (imco) not even the best Sergio Leone “nameless protagonist” scene involving counting and the shooting of some goons 😃

(see: “You brought two too many”)

Although I do love the Sergio Leone films, if its Clint Eastwood then it has to be "The Outlaw Josey Wales" especially for this scene but there are many others:

youtube.com/watch?v=3LWJdzXDSmQ&

I doubt it was from High Chapparal because i don't think Miss Victoria would sully her hands in the kitchen, leaving the cooking to her clown of a countryman Pedro. I was thinking Hop Sing was the cook but realised that he worked at the Ponderosa.

In my first reply to this, I mentioned John Ford's Cheyenne Autumn. At that point, I hadn't actually seen it. I am guessing that you hadn't / haven't, either, as I have now seen it and it was more than 25 years ahead of Dances With Wolves in terms of explicitly addressing the treatment of Native Americans. I am happy to also report that it is an EXCELLENT film, the cinematography alone is astonishing (I believe John Ford shot it knowing it would be his last big Western, and he lingers on Monument Valley - possibly at the expense of geographical veracity wrt the story - in such beautiful Super Panavision, and great colours). To be honest I've not watched so many of the classic bigger epic Westerns so this bit may not be exciting to some, but I was really struck by the horse work in this. 

It's not perfect; the hokey "snowbound" studio set for Fort Robinson is a distraction, as is the back projection on the Edward G Robinson "exteriors", and Sal Mineo's character is a waste of time, but overall it's great. If you haven't seen it, you are in for a real treat. 

 

it's an excellent film and the fact that the two main Indians ( contemporary term) were played by Mexicans doesn't detract from its quality one bit.

Rancho Deluxe and The Lone Rangerwith Jonny Depp as Tonto( though that might be deleted in present climate of opinion)

I'll take a look.

Was just reading that the “real” Indians, the extras, were Navajo and simply spoke Navajo on the dialogue as nobody was to know any the wiser....and they were basically mocking the whole thing by quietly yelling crude bawdy jokes etc, which made the film popular amongst the Navajo 😃😃😃

That reminds me - didn't the Americans use native speakers to communicate over radio in WW2? The Germans probably didn't have many Navajo translators. A definite illustration of how cultural diversity is a strength for a society.

They did. Windtalkers, they called them. The story was made into a half decent movie hampered only by having to focus it all on one white character (Nicolas Cage) but some great combat sequences (directed by John Woo) 

As it now appears to be a week of Carroll Baker films at Straggler Mansions (also mostly seeming to involve at least one of Richard Widmark, Eli Wallach and Karl Malden!) I watched How the West Was Won last night. 

Considering it is sort of three separate stories covering different aspects, in different time periods, albeit woven together by one family, it was surprisingly MORE of the slog than the more linear (and just as long) Cheyenne Autumn. Really a bit of a mess, the first and earliest section (pioneer family trying to travel west) is the best. John Ford’s Civil section was weirdly short and short on action (with a distracting novelty cameo from John Wayne) and the final act with wooden George Peppard settling a score with Eli Wallach that feels like a section of the film was missing, was dull. But the pioneer bit at the start and also the railroad bullying with hard-nosed Richard Widmark was effective (that buffalo stampede was full-on)

Debbie Reynolds was surprisingly the standout! Although even she could not pass for 20 (and 34-year-old George Peppard as Carroll Baker’s son when they didn’t remember to age Carroll Baker, was just CONFUSING) 😃

Hard to judge the Cinerama when viewed on a flat television but the compositions seemed to be “single camera on the actors in the middle, with the left and right just adding some super-wide-angle “colour” and of course on a flat television it all gets warped.

Have we had The Proposition? Depends how far West you’re willing to go. Also a great Nick Cave score. I like The Assassination of Jesse James... another Cave soundtrack.

I was reading about the fictional Alan Smithee the other day. You mentioning Richard Widmark reminded me, it was his flexing of his star power on Death if a Gun Fighter that necessitated his creation.

Just watched Badland. If I were Justin Lee I'd hand over the credits to Smithee a.s.a.p.

If I felt charitable , I'd say that if someone made a definitive list of the 1,000 best westerns it might just make the cut,  with the emphasis on "might".

Pops up a lot here. I thought it was HUGELY overrated and disappointing. The main thing I got from it was that it converted me finally into an Emily Watson fan. 

The only one to realise the james stewart /anthony mann westerns were by far the best. Much as i liked  pale rider.

Jesus, talk about bizarre coincidences.  I saw that same movie whilst at University about 20 years ago (I know the exact same scene you are talking about) and for some reason that particular scene jumped into my head this morning. 

Then I read your post.

I remember thinking it was particularly horrific at the time and I've got no idea why I was thinking about it earlier on.

My  mistake: if we call each episode a place then it's only one. And dire is probably a bit strong. 

Which one? I have seen the film and am curious. I will take a guess. The second part (James Franco).

No, the first one . The Ebert critic called it "goofy" so I'll stick with that as a one word summary, dire being too harsh.

The Franco story was OK but it's a shame that its best line ( and probably the film's) was given away in the trailer.

The Gal Who Got Rattled was my favourite. Touching, good little story and beautifully photographed.

Sure about that? I thought it was US National Guard on exercise in Louisiana, hence the title.

I can't believe no one's mentioned the Clint Eastwood / Lee Marvin classic "Paint your Wagon" 😉

I think he means it is a Vietnam movie by analogy, so the Cajun swamp dwellers are there to represent the Viet Cong. But their music is probably better.

Got to admit on both counts that it wasn't my first thought on watching them, either. My first and most obvious reaction to Southern Comfort was its closeness to Deliverance. Alien's shock and awe value  outweighed any musings about political  allegory.

Is there a spate of films which are similarly veiled references to WW2 that I've lost out on in my interpretation of ? 

Don't know, don't care. 

Some people might call that a rather petulant response.

Good! 

And Predator of course, telling it like it should have been. 

my question wasn't a snide one: I actually thought you might know about some films which were allegorical accounts of some aspect of WW2 like the rise of Hitler or even the reverse where a WW2 film is seen as representing post war events. I had thought that Attack was in that category but it seems not. Good film all the same

My answer wasn't snide, just a bit hurried. I can't think of any obvious/glaring allegorical examples but there surely are some. 
The rather execrable Saints and Soldiers is arguably an allegory for "being a Mormon is great and if you aren't a Mormon you'll probably get shot", but I'd rather forget that film entirely