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Inspired by recent threads. I don't make a habit of listening to challenging music, but their's times when it's what I need, turned up. I don't think anything beats Whitehouse in the challenging stakes, but maybe you know otherwise? Loud metal doesn't really cut it, so don't bother.
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In reply to aln:
Sleaford Mods?
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In reply to bouldery bits:
Hmm... Getting there, I like their shouty, but not challenging enough. It's punk rock without guitars.
Post edited at 22:12
In reply to aln:
Replica Trout Mask
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In reply to Pete Dangerous:
I don't get Beefheart Captain, rather than challenging me, it bores me.
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In reply to aln: throbbing gristle , Einstürzende Neubauten , 23 skidoo . I couldn't spell the middle one so copied it off wiki , which gave me this , which made me chuckle .
In 1984, Einstürzende Neubauten, with guests including Genesis P-Orridge, Stevo Pearce, Frank Tovey and others, played a show titled The Concerto for Voices and Machinery at the ICA in London. After 20 minutes the venue halted the show when the band began to dig through the venue's stage with drills and jackhammers.[2][3] 1984 also saw the first release of a best-of and rarities compilation, Strategies Against Architecture 80-83.
much of this is virtually unlistenable to me as a grown up but I have fond memories of a shared house where it was " the thing" . I have much of this stuff on vinyl and most of it has not been played for many years.
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In reply to aln:
Schoenberg String Quartets 3 & 4. Highpoints of 20th century music.
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In reply to aln:
How about some Jazz:
youtube.com/watch?v=MsQYzpOHpik&
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In reply to mike123:
That's great. Collapsing new buildings lol, appropriate for the times we live in. I have a Throbbing Gristle 7 inch (boom boom) with Zyklon B Zombie on the B side. Always seemed a bit desperate for shock value to me. Nice whistling tune mind you.
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In reply to Andy Clarke:
> Schoenberg String Quartets 3 & 4. Highpoints of 20th century music.
Is there a particular recording you would recommend?
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In reply to aln: saw throbbing gristle , got in a bit of a state , woke up in a park covered in dew , head ringing , not knowing quiet what had happened . Ah, happy days ,
edit : or maybe it was psychic TV. That period of my life is All abit hazy
Post edited at 22:44
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In reply to mike123:
Yes! That's what I needed right then. Don't know if I'll ever listen to it again. And I need to watch this some time youtube.com/watch?v=TEYHUJv1rLg&
In reply to mike123:
> saw throbbing gristle , got in a bit of a state , woke up in a park covered in dew , head ringing , not knowing quiet what had happened . Ah, happy days
I love that.
In reply to FactorXXX:
😀😀😀
In reply to aln:
how about Cynic - very talented musicians. The drummer especially is regarded highly. Well he was - he is dead now.
youtube.com/watch?v=w2keHevAN54&
Yes some of their early stuff is loud metal ish.
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In reply to dunc56:
Sorry, but that was kinda ordinary and not at all challenging or difficult.
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In reply to aln:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Marteau_sans_ma%C3%AEtre#Reception_and_leg... have been warned.....
In reply to kevin stephens:
There's not much competition! LaSalle Quartet for me. Available at knock down price, and you get Webern & Berg as well if you get the box set. Quatuor Diotima is a very good much more recent recording, but you won't find it cheap. The more I listen, the more beautiful they get.
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In reply to aln:
Assuming this isn't "loud metal" (because it definately isn't) then Tool are worth a listen
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In reply to Andy Clarke:
nobody seems to have La Salle version in stock on CD and I'm not into downloads. I've been meaning to try some Schoenberg so I'll investigate other recordings. Edit, found the 4 CD set and ordered
Post edited at 23:54
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In reply to mark20:
That's great, but again, not difficult or challenging. The Cramps version of Surfing Bird is more challenging, and my 10 Yr old son likes that!
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In reply to aln:
Ha! No particular genre mentioned, so here goes:
Classical: If anyone can persuade me that Tippett or Maxwell-Davies wrote anything that I should listen to, I will buy you a pint. Conversely Benjamin Britten is worth a go, try the Cello Suites.
Jazz: John Coltrane, really gets my goat; sometimes it's just a slew of willy-waving notes, sometimes brilliant. On the other hand, Close to the Edge is exactly what you need, but you may not get it straight away. youtube.com/watch?v=GNkWac-Nm0A&
Sex Pistols - God Save the Queen ?
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In reply to aln:
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by difficult and challenging?
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In reply to freeflyer:
If I have the time, and inclination, Coltrane is worth a wander. Love Supreme is a classic work of 20th C art.
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In reply to mark20:
A cover, which is an easy way in to the original. youtube.com/watch?v=IP8yr2yVwa4&
In reply to aln:
Lyrics to Shitfun This is funny https://www.lyrics.com/lyrics/shitfun%20by%20whitehouse
In reply to aln:
Aphrodite's Child: youtube.com/watch?v=V4T_z6ajrM8&
Takaaki Itoh: youtube.com/watch?v=ofrtA5yXY6k&
Amon Düül II: youtube.com/watch?v=bIbxDXbScfw&
A twist on Coltrane: youtube.com/watch?v=wHV6gMLZkmY&
In reply to aln:
I do love a bit of Nick Cave but his first album with the Birthday Party, Junkyard, is just unlistenable!
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In reply to aln:
I don’t know what Whitehouse is.
I offer the highly critically acclaimed Merzbow, and also the legendary Jarboe (who I have seen in concert, unfortunately)
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In reply to mark20:
> I'm not entirely sure what you mean by difficult and challenging?
Nor me. I thought he meant “nearly unlistenable” but now I am not so sure.
If he didn’t mean that, then a load of Fugazi and Sonic Youth might fit the bill
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In reply to aln:
Another vote for merzbow.
My addition is ryoji ikeda, a visual and sound artist. I have one of his albums, which became quite useful once....
I was living in a shared house in my 20s, and some of my housemates decided to have a full on house party after a gig they went to, on a midweek night- I had to work the next morning.
It was very noisy so I asked them repeatedly to keep the door to the living room shut, which they repeatedly forgot to do. I got a bit pissed off so put my speakers outside my bedroom door and played this full volume... it scared the crap out of everyone and everyone left! Not my finest hour, but hey ho.
In reply to aln:
Melt banana for a bit of Japanese noise.
Future sound of London, maybe not so challenging, but requires some effort and time to just sit and listen.
In reply to freeflyer:
> Classical: If anyone can persuade me that Tippett or Maxwell-Davies wrote anything that I should listen to, I will buy you a pint. Conversely Benjamin Britten is worth a go, try the Cello Suites.
Antarctic Symphony by M-D is one of my all time favourite pieces of music.
Tippet's string quartets are a joy (albeit rather hard to get right).
Other options for challenging music would be the brilliant simplicity of Anton Webern, particularly his tone poems. In playing Bartok's string quartets the Julliard Quartet is unparalleled.
In reply to aln:
Justice yeldham... the guy who 'plays' a piece of glass (and kinda eats it)
youtube.com/watch?v=nuuSTtkqWek&
Lots of memories is wierd gigs flooding back, thanks for the thread!
In reply to freeflyer:
> Classical: If anyone can persuade me that Maxwell-Davies wrote anything that I should listen to, I will buy you a pint.
Farewell to Stromness is a favourite of Classic FM, so it's not all "challenging." Any chance of a Shipyard IPA?
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In reply to kevin stephens:
Enjoy. I love the String Quartet as a form and after late Beethoven I think these Schoenbergs are my favourite. More so than Schubert, which I know will be sacrilege to many. I guess at first I persevered with them out of bloody-mindedness, but suddenly I realised I was listening to them to be transported.
In reply to aln:
Anybody improvising over Giant Steps, save maybe Stevie Wonder.
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In reply to aln:
If you like any rock/ metal stuff (some of it is a bit shouty, apologies), give The Dillinger Escape Plan a go. The genre's 'Mathcore' which references the tricky rhythmic changes and syncopations which make some tracks a 'difficult' listen. Still quite melodic though.....sometimes.
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In reply to aln:
Keith Jarrett. I once had the misfortune of attending a concert of his, in a dismal attempt to make a good impression on someone. I seemed to be the only person in the audience who didn't fall in raptures. To me, it was utterly unlistenable. Mind you, that was about 40 years ago, so my receptiveness may have changed.
In reply to aln:
The Fall? It was usually a good night out, but it's rare for me to put him on and listen to a whole album
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In reply to aln:
And Frank Zappa. Little windows of accessibility in whole swathes of boring and/or offensive
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In reply to Pete Dangerous:
It really does separate the wheat from the chaff, that one. And many fine musicians are chaff, it turns out.
Post edited at 09:11
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In reply to Pete Dangerous:
> Anybody improvising over Giant Steps, save maybe Stevie Wonder.
For a moment I thought that was Kenneth Williams...
In reply to Bob Kemp:
Surprised Stockhausen hasn't been mentioned, I've heard some pieces which were enjoyable, others that were like an awful noise. I've only seen one piece 'live' (Stimmung) & that was interesting as an event but I'm not sure I'd want to listen to it as a recording.
There's also a lot of 60s & 70s 'free jazz' which was probably fun to play but not really for listening, at least for me.
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In reply to Doug:
Most of Tom Waits.
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In reply to aln:
I'm a big fan of Qujaku, a japanese psycedelic band. They are absolutely blinding live. youtube.com/watch?v=E6XXEyHDn9c&
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In reply to kingborris:
> Mr Bungle
Fantastic stuff. Mike Patton's a minor hero of mine.
Love me some Residents too and been fortunate enough to see them. It's all peculiar, but not necessarily as deranged as is sometimes make out.
youtube.com/watch?v=gQYMuTm5GIk&
Trout Mask Replica works after a few listens, some great stuff in there.
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In reply to Toccata:
> Antarctic Symphony by M-D is one of my all time favourite pieces of music.
That is now in the list, thankyou
Tippett is still the other side of my event horizon however; perhaps a miracle will occur.
A couple of further additions to the thread:
Almoraima - Paco de Lucia takes flamenco by the scruff of the neck and throws it out of the box into a new world: youtube.com/watch?v=lY2_eAZo4Lk&
The Americans need a mention. Rzweski North American Ballads, in particular Winnsboro Cotton Mill Blues: youtube.com/watch?v=UNBNbHK2jgw&
Edit: typo
Post edited at 12:51
In reply to freeflyer:
> Tippett is still the other side of my event horizon however; perhaps a miracle will occur.
Try concerto for double string orchestra. A friend who's a professional viola player doesn't like Tippett either.
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In reply to aln:
Reading some of the replies, Im not sure what you define as difficult and challenging. For the listener or for the musicians?
As my stab(s) in the dark:
Meshuggah - Ok its shouty metal, but I imagine it would be pretty challenging and innacessible to people who dont typically listen to the metal genre. The patterns and timings are complex.
Between the Buried and Me - Covers everything from shouty metal to acoustic and most genres in between. Probably more listenable than some of the heaviest music, but im sure it doesnt get much more challenging from a musicians point of view.
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In reply to Andy Clarke:
Alban Berg's Violin Concerto "Dem Andenken eines Engels" ("To the memory of an angel").
If it REALLY has to be classical music of that period I prefer Berg's attempts to mix classical harmonics with dodecaphony rather than go all twelve tone Taliban.
CB
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In reply to james.slater:
> Meshuggah - Ok its shouty metal, but I imagine it would be pretty challenging and innacessible to people who dont typically listen to the metal genre. The patterns and timings are complex.
Great shout. Djent is a good source of challenging material in general.
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In reply to Toccata:
> Try concerto for double string orchestra. A friend who's a professional viola player doesn't like Tippett either.
I'll give it a go. Weirdly the piano sonatas were given to me by my late uncle who was principal viola at the Festival Ballet - a great job involving lots of ballerinas. Mum said he probably gave them to me because he didn't like them and I never knew who to believe!
Post edited at 14:38
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In reply to aln:
The Red Crayola's Parable of the Arable Land is unusual as a concept.
In 1967 the band went into a recording studio with a number of friends and various objects that made a noise such as a motorbike and a large quantity of LSD. The album consists mainly of "free form freakouts" where everyone drops some acid, picks something up and makes a noise with it. The sleeve notes reveal that someone spent most of a recording session hitting two matchsticks together but I'm afraid I wasn't able to pick that out above the noise of the motorbike and the chainsaw.
I did play the album in its entirety once which is one time less than I played Trout Mask Replica.
Post edited at 15:05
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In reply to aln:
These, if you want difficult, can understand a word they say youtube.com/watch?v=v4xZUr0BEfE&
there's always my fallback favourite, Crass (difficult to argue with)
In reply to FactorXXX:
> How about some Jazz:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsQYzpOHpik
Agreed, jazz has got to be the most difficult, even the watered down stuff like Weather Report you can’t half listen to
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In reply to Cobra_Head:
Nothing difficult about Crass, its just great.
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In reply to aln:
Surprised there's not been more mention of the Warp Records / Avant Garde kind of area....
To a greater or lesser degree lots of those guys have some challenging output, often with interspersed with moments of great beauty...
Aphex Twin, Squarepusher, Ceephax Acid Crew, Plaid, Vincent Gallo, Two Lone Swordsmen, The Black Dog, Sabres of Paradise, Boards Of Canada, Speedy J....
Completely different end of the spectrum horrorcore Hip Hop - Check out Tyler, The Creator's first proper album "Goblin" (though he's always maintained it's not horrorcore). Personally I love it, but the violent imagery and some of the themes make it pretty hard to swallow at first. Not one for in the car with the kids.
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In reply to aln:
If it's the sort of "up it's own arse" poncery you're after, try the penguin cafe orchestra.
Sounds like 15 recent graduates of the nearest conservatoire tuning up each others instruments. For about an hour.
(I may be guilty of a small degree of exaggeration here)
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In reply to Andy Hardy:
> If it's the sort of "up it's own arse" poncery you're after, try the penguin cafe orchestra.
Try Red Priest. I fell for it initially, but then watched a video and realised what a lot of smugness was going on.
Basically Vivaldi "cosplay". But it doesn't fit the OP's request; it's just my instant response to "up its own arse poncery"
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In reply to Blue Straggler:
Sounds like one to avoid
In reply to aln:
Check this out - this duo released an album on Warp as Satanstornade (I think). It's, well, you'll see... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su3TCurPwRU&list=OLAK5uy_n_bAR-coA_YTv8...
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In reply to aln:
How about some Motley Crue, you know you want to...
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In reply to aln:
Some great examples on this thread of people pushing into the boundaries (and beyond) of tonality. There's also plenty of examples of people making a racket. I also think I heard a few sheds being built and a fire in a pet shop.
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In reply to aln:
A lot of stuff from 'Yes' is difficult to listen to.
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In reply to Removed User:
> How about some Motley Crue, you know you want to...
Live wire is actually weapon.
Fact.
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In reply to wynaptomos:
> I do love a bit of Nick Cave but his first album with the Birthday Party, Junkyard, is just unlistenable!
Junkyard was the Birthday Party's final album, and a lot more radio friendly than what had preceded it, all of which featured Cave.
Aln, I assume you are familiar with Swans and Butthole Surfers. Try Terry Riley or Edgard Varèse.
In reply to aln:
This thread is starting to get a bit ‘who can reference the most obscure bands possible’
Heres my attempt;
- venetian snares (a more mental version of aphex twin)
- stalaggh (just not very nice)
- the locust
- ulver (in particular the william blake concept album)
- sunn o))) (turn up the bass)
- the knife / fever ray (bit more mainstream)
- jon hassell (maybe not difficult, just really good)
- mats morgan band (off kilter fusion jazz madness)
- leviathan (just plain nasty black metal)
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In reply to aln:
Interesting responses so far - no mention of Lou Reeds Metal Machine Music yet?
Yeah, Whitehouse - I think they in terms of delivery and subject matter are hard to top with regards to ‘challenging music’ but as I think me and TWS we’re discussing recently Whitehouse or at least certain elements in the ‘group’ perhaps went too far into the research for material - even TG thought Whitehouse were extreme!
Coil perhaps - another TG link though
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In reply to aln:
Penderecki’s ‘Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima’
Challenging in every way... challenging subject matter, challenging to listen to and, if you think you can read music, I challenge you to make sense of the hieroglyphic score!
Kind of beautiful in its own way though.
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In reply to 65:
Varese is positively cuddly compared to some of these suggestions
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In reply to aln:
cLOUDDEAD
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In reply to Tobes:
> Interesting responses so far - no mention of Lou Reeds Metal Machine Music yet?
That's the one that sprang to mind immediately as I saw the thread title, without even opening the thread and reading the OP, but then I realised I've never actually heard it (maybe heard a tiny bit on the radio once) and therefore felt I didn't have a right to MENTION it, let alone "recommend" it
To be honest though, there is a Lou Reed live album from 1978 with his more "accessible" songs on it, which is a difficult and demanding listen due to Lou seeming to want to fight the whole audience if not the whole outside world
In reply to Jack:
Agreed, that stuff I linked is absolute noise, not sure how people can listen to it. Bit f'ing pretentious if you ask me, but maybe I'm just a philistine who doesn't understand it. The same people who like this probably couldn't sit through a whole Take That album. Each to their own I guess!
In reply to Iamgregp:
For pretentious, difficult concept albums and general art wankery, I offer the entire genre of prog rock.
That said, some prog rock can be quite good if done skillfully.
Leviathan and Crack the Skye by Mastodon are both excellent, especially if you concentrate on the constant rhythm changes. I just wouldn't want to put these albums on repeat while driving....
Also, I love the old, proggy Tull albums.
Thinking of rhythm changes, Sepultura - Beneath the Remains from way back in 1986 (?) set a standard. It is metal, but not THAT shouty, and mixing South American percussion with metal drumming was a great idea!
CB
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In reply to Iamgregp:
Scott Walker's output since 1980 surely fits the bill:
Climate of Hunter
Tilt
The Drift
Bish Bosch
His collaboration with Sunn O))) (Soused) is a melding of two really challenging artists.
Colin Stetson also well worth checking out - New History of Warfare Part 2 is my favourite. If you want really out there, try emptyset.
In reply to cb294:
Magma deserves a mention in the prog rock genre (Steve Davis got me into them
In reply to cb294:
Mastodon are one of my all time favourite bands. Blood Mountain is a masterpiece.
As you mention both Mastodon and Sepultura in the same post, can I assume you are aware of the super group Killer be Killed? Max Cavalera originally of Sepultura, Troy Sanders from Mastodon, and Greg from The Dillinger Escape Plan, with a varying drummer it seems. Its far less proggy or technical than the music you would normally associate those names with, but they definitely give a sense that they are having serious fun and its a refreshing and excellent listen!
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In reply to cb294:
Oh god yes, as a genre Prog has to take the medal for pretentious wankery...
When I think of prog rock it conjures up images of Peter Gabriel dressed up as a Daffodil, or Rick bloody Wakeman dressed in a cape playing yet another long solo on multiple synths [shudders]. But like you say, as with almost any challenging genre, there is some good stuff in there you just have to wade past the less worthy bits.
Never really listened to much Jethro Tull, save for the odd track here and there and having listened to a lot of heavy music when I was in my teens I rarely listen to that kind of stuff these days, not my jam anymore but Sepultura are/were decent, had a bit of a different take and frame of reference than others...
In reply to aln:
Just remembered the Yoko Ono and John Lennon album they did Unfinished Music???? I think. Quite enjoyed it but I haven't listened to it for a while, its the closest I'll ever get to owning anything by the Beatles.
In reply to aln:
i've been digging a lot looking for special music.
for me challenging means i've got to spend a long time thinking, "what the f*ck is this" and then get a flick of a switch moment when i get it.
cannot recommend Dälek enough. to see them live is phenomenal. Noise, beats, the hypnotic rhythm . just amazing. all the albums are great but would recommend "Absence" or "abandoned language"
on a punk/metal: Converge - "Jane Doe" album. the mathcore brutality of the vocals and music took ages for me to get, then i realized it was a masterpiece
Killah Priest- "rocket to nebula" i found very challenging to start with because it was so different. not harsh on the ear but just mind bending. convinced now its a high point in the mans creativity
honorable mentions:
Lungfish - very different. find it haunting
the mob - the unrelenting bleakness of the lyrics i find challenging
fugazi - any albums all amazing
rudimentary peni (death church is my favorite. but the later albums after Nicko had his mental health issues are really challenging with real moments of genius)
Cannibal Ox - cos if you've not heard it, its amazing
Suicide first album - pure poetry
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In reply to aln:
https://www.discogs.com/Kreng-The-Summoner/release/6577757
VERY difficult to listen to straight through. Track titles going through the stages of grief, with an additional stage. Grief is not easy, I think that is the point. At times i is immensely claustrophobic. It has helped me before with grief.
As the OP asks - it is a difficult album to listen to, however very rewarding (The Summoner track and moving towards acceptance)
In reply to Rakim:
> fugazi - any albums all amazing
My sister once asked, of some Fugazi that my cousin was playing through a tinny little portable stereo, "what's that noise, is it MUSIC? Sounds like a broken washing machine"
Which was harsh yet hard to argue with at the time
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In reply to Blue Straggler:
Wow, much as I like Fugazi/Minor threat etc I'd class it as pretty mainstream rock n roll.
I have been accused of having unusual taste in music though????
This thread has certainly bought up some interesting avenues to dig through
Post edited at 13:58
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In reply to artif:
i thought that and then got told to turn that f*cking noise off yesterday?!
rewatched instrument during lockdown. amazing. anyone climbed the slate routes named after fugazi songs? they're on the list
Dalek were described to me as whitehouse meets public enemy. mike patton signed them to his label. not weird for the sake of it. more a soundscape of bleak rage.
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In reply to artif:
> Wow, much as I like Fugazi/Minor threat etc I'd class it as pretty mainstream rock n roll.
Yes, me too. I mean to my personal tastes it is still a bit shouty and abrasive but heck it's almost melodic too! It's not for me but I respect it and I agree it's borderline "mainstream" (for special definitions of mainstream ). Their influence and inspiration says a lot.
My story is from around 1993 when my sister was a young uni student and working at the Hacienda and had a stupid antipathy toward anything that wasn't pure 1990s "dance music"
And it was a particularly tinny crappy speaker that my cousin was playing his music through.
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In reply to artif:
> Nothing difficult about Crass, its just great.
I meant it was difficult to argue against their politics, it was a joke, of sorts.
Also, if you are northern the southern accent often needs interpretation / translation.
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In reply to aln:
I suspect this’ll get an uncomprehending stare from many of the participants in this thread but anyway - anything of Jack Bruce’s, especially from “More Jack than God” or the studio section of Cream’s Wheels of Fire double album(vinyl, I’m showing my age)
Saw him in Hamilton Town Hall in about 1972, and in Perth shortly before he died. Very busy & hard work to listen to, but really compelling.
In reply to Cobra_Head:
even as an obsessive, getting all the way through "yes sir i will" in a single sitting is pretty hard work.
Pope Adrian 37th Psychristiatric by rudimentary peni is the album i was thinking of. blinko wrote it whilst detained under the mental health act. it and Cacophony are brilliant
got a soft spot for Sleep - Dopesmoker. put it on one evening whilst violently ill. brilliant
a single 63 minute song of doom/drone riffage
recommended to me recently was :
billy woods & Kenny Segal - Hiding Places (2019)
production is really special.
a friend is getting back to me with some new jazz recommendations. she does a lot with that sons of kemet scene and says i'm missing out on some good shit
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In reply to Rakim:
you're welcome to your jazz, even "good" jazz is annoying to me, although I've recently been drawn to some Balkan Folk Jazz, which is certainly not "Difficult Music" but a nice change.
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In reply to aln:
> challenging music
> Loud metal doesn't really cut it, so don't bother.
Sounds like a challenge for both me and you then. Try Necrophagist, it doesn't get much more challenging imo
In reply to aln:
Steve Albini is a difficult man who makes 'difficult' music, loud without being metal.
Shellac - youtube.com/watch?v=XXzZ0GncaJc&
Big Black - youtube.com/watch?v=HuO3wwLuF0w&
In reply to Blue Straggler:
> That's the one that sprang to mind immediately as I saw the thread title, without even opening the thread and reading the OP, but then I realised I've never actually heard it (maybe heard a tiny bit on the radio once) and therefore felt I didn't have a right to MENTION it, let alone "recommend" it
> To be honest though, there is a Lou Reed live album from 1978 with his more "accessible" songs on it, which is a difficult and demanding listen due to Lou seeming to want to fight the whole audience if not the whole outside world
I’ve got MMM on cassette and yes have played an entire side ; ) - I think each side is the exact same timing- imaging releasing Transformer the following up with this! Got to admire the intentional career suicide really.
That live album/period of Lous life was quite confrontational, I think a lot of drugs were involved
In reply to aln:
Late Beethoven string quartets and piano sonatas. Just close your eyes, listen hard and be transported by the genius of the composer who wrote these when he was deaf. How did he do that?
Bach solo violin and cello sonatas and partitas plus the Goldberg variations. Any number of his cantatas. You have to listen hard, they are not like the supreme Vivaldi, but they are worth it. Much other Bach besides.
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Pigface.
Delighted to see Mr Bungle mentioned. They played three dates in the US at the beginning of this year I think. If I knew then what I knew now I would have spent my 2020 holiday money and gone.
I saw them in London many years ago and they were so tight. Mike Patton is such a treasure.
Just going to go and stare wistfully into the dark and listen to California...
In reply to aln:
Fairly mild in this milieu but I rate The Gaslamp Killer - who earned his moniker by ruining the 'vibe' of clubs in San Diego's Gaslamp district.
In reply to aln:
A few more to throw in the mix.
Skinny puppy, dystemper remixes being a favourite of mine.
Ministry, more fast industrial rock but one of the better ones
Morphine, if you fancy funeral dirge style doom and gloom.
More recently I happened across the Nova Twins, not difficult just great music
In reply to Iamgregp:
> Agreed, that stuff I linked is absolute noise, not sure how people can listen to it. Bit f'ing pretentious if you ask me, but maybe I'm just a philistine who doesn't understand it. The same people who like this probably couldn't sit through a whole Take That album. Each to their own I guess!
This. I could sooner sit through an album of Whitehouse or Yoko or Autechre than an album of anything from the country & western genre, especially stuff from the last 30 years. Avant-garde makes me think, C&W makes me violent.
The music I find the most impossible to listen to though is Indonesian gamelan, a blend of feeling despairingly bored and violently destructive and I've no idea why.
In reply to aln:
Tibetan ceremonial music can be hard, the dissonant alpen-horn type things, clashing cymbals and seemingly random drums. Great with the dances and atmosphere etc, but after several hours of it becomes like medieval dentistry.
In reply to aln:
Another one that just came to me, Ligeti - used on the 2001 a Space Odyssey film/soundtrack.
it’s the music with the wild vocal harmonies/chanting - I think it’s fantastic- apparently was used without permission for the film
In reply to Removed Userwaitout:
Same. Country and Western is something I just can't get on with... Other than Dolly, she gets a pass. Islands In The Stream is an absolute banger.
I'm into some of the Avant Garde / electronica stuff. Autechre/Squarepusher/Afx are about as far as I can go though. Once it get's into the pure noise stuff (which admittedly they do occasionally) like that Russell Haswell stuff I linked earlier then it's a bit too far for me.
Would I rather listen to a full take that album or a full album of noise electronica I wonder though? Difficult call. Might go for the noise, at least it's original.
In reply to aln:
Most people find the Japanese Comedy Torture Hour pretty challenging, even though who say they like experimental and weird music.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=japanese+comedy+torture+hour
In reply to Dave Todd:
> Sorry - late to the party...
> Try 'L.A. Blues' from The Stooges 'Fun House' album.
Greatest album ever recorded.
LA Blues is sort of the commercial end of what The Stooges came from as an experimental garage noise group dedicated to ending the 60's. Heard in context with the rest of the album (it's the last track) it's the end of an unravelling that begins as very standard blues and gradually loses it.
God I love that album.
In reply to various:
> [can't handle etc] Country and Western
This thread keeps on giving
Try Alison Krauss and Union Station, for example the beautiful Dimming of the Day from the album Paper Airplane:
youtube.com/watch?v=uiy3qGCZZEc&
Strictly the genre is bluegrass. Alison also does a cracking version of Lie Awake by Angel Snow who I really love, but that's a different thread (folk).
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In reply to aln:
Stockhausen
Went to a performance of his. During a period of darkness somebody shouted "this is shite". I did not disagree but you shouldn't spoil it for those who liked it.
Some of the audience seemed to be cult followers rather than afacionardos.
An interesting and memorable evening. Did not like or remember the music.
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In reply to elsewhere:
> Stockhausen
> Went to a performance of his. During a period of darkness somebody shouted "this is shite".
whilst I agree one shouldn't be there , this has made me laugh out loud .
Prompted by this thread and memories of listening to throbbing gristle and psychic tv I've had a few goes this week ( via you tube so far but might dig out some vinyl this weekend ) . Struggled with everything I've tried so far. Interesting and very subjective distinction between " this is shite" and " this is difficult " .
I listen to 6 music pretty much continually at work, other than for that bit "techno Tuesday " during which I'd sooner listen to Jeremy vine talking to a moron .
Good thread .
In reply to aln:
Country and western? Use of this moniker would indicate a degree of unfamiliarity with the genre over the last few decades. No Hank Williams? No Johnny Cash? Not even alt.country/americana/roots/add label to taste? No Uncle Tupelo or Son Volt? No Steve Earle? No Lucinda Williams? Shakes head in bemusement.
1
In reply to freeflyer:
Lovely. And the fact that it's a cover of a Richard Thompson song (folk? folk-rock? rock?) is a neat illustration of just how slippery labels and genres can get.
In reply to AMorris:
> Sounds like a challenge for both me and you then. Try Necrophagist, it doesn't get much more challenging imo
Hmm sounds like speeded up Queen with the predictable throaty roar thing going on - more irritating than challenging for me at least
just find any version of Throbbing Gristles - Hamburger Lady for context/example - )
1
In reply to Andy Clarke:
> Country and western? Use of this moniker would indicate a degree of unfamiliarity with the genre over the last few decades.
I didn't say anything on this thread about C+W.
In reply to Andy Clarke:
I raised C&W, and stand by it. Something about the tonal qualities, melodies and syntax that makes me want to claw out the source. The more the sound hybridizes into other forms like rock, dance or folk the worse, like it's Beelzebub shape shifting. Cotton Eye Joe kills me. Even forays into C&W by the likes of Dylan and Beastie Boys repulse me.
No doubt there's subdivisions into Country or whatever, but it's gotta go a long way before I can simmer down. Bluegrass, fine. Cowboy stuff, fine. Folk, fine. Johnny Cash is great mostly as he seems to avoid the common denominator sound. But the rest makes me feel like I'm in some sort of musical tomb.
Perhaps the Western part of the equation is OK, but the Country half just hurts.
In reply to aln:
Desiatnikov-Awesome Wench
Great thread, try listening to ‘Daddy’ by Korn through to the end.
Most artists I thought of have been mentioned I think:
Meshuggah - even non metal fans should be challenged by or appreciate the intricate and complex time signatures.
Sun O))) - turn it up to max on your best headphones, an immensely loud act if you can ever catch them live - well recommended.
Boards of Canada - I’ve had their discography playing in the background quite a lot this year, every so often one of the tracks will suddenly get my attention and I’ll be hooked! I’m slowly getting around to appreciating all of their songs.
Ditto the above comments on Dillinger Escape Plan (vocalist Greg Puciato’s new solo album is excellent), Aphex Twin & Mastodon.
In reply to aln:
Bartok's string quartets.
In reply to aln:
Hi,
Interesting thread!
I haven’t heard W/house, but I used to listen (selectively) to their one-time collaborator, Nurse with Wound (NWW)*, who were included in Dave Henderson's survey of “difficult music”, in Sounds (1980s).
Dance audiences have found LaMonte Young's Two Sounds - commissioned for Merce Cunningham’s Winterbranch (1964) – difficult, even in more recent times**.
BBC Radio 3’s New Music Show often includes challenging works.
Thanks,
R
* Here's NWW's Soliloquy for Lilith IV – more Mod than Diff, perhaps ; )
youtube.com/watch?v=B4Ez4quKIM8& (footage: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triadisches_Ballett#Film)
Peter Strickland’s Katalin Varga & Berberian Sound Studio feature the NWW tracks listed here:
http://www.brainwashed.com/common/htdocs/discog/vfd42149.php?site=nww
http://www.brainwashed.com/common/htdocs/discog/art053bd.php?site=nww
** https://dancecapsules.mercecunningham.org/overview.cfm?capid=46113
https://scottishstage.wordpress.com/2013/09/02/reviews-edinburgh-internatio... ... As the second piece, American avant-garde choreographer Merce Cunningham’s 1964 work Winterbranch, came to a close, the adulation was punctured by booing from some patrons. What had so outraged them?
Maybe it was the industrial squeal and atonality of the soundtrack (American minimalist composer La Monte Young’s 2 Sounds). Perhaps it was the fact that Cunningham’s piece requires darkness, broken only by subtle spot lighting and occasional flashes of explosive illumination. Or it could have been the bold, defiant abstraction of the movement performed by the black-clad dancers. I suspect it was a combination of all three. ...
In reply to aln:
I find Ed Sheran really difficult to listen to, especially if it is loud and you can't block it out and especially if there's someone tunelessly singing along to it.
But I don't think that's the sort of experience you're after...
Perhaps I can offer you, Come on my selector?
2
In reply to aln:
Stuff from the throbbing gristle, coil, current 93, foetus stable is worth trying.
TG taught me to listen and enjoy the challenge but courted controversy too overtly, as though the shock, not the music was the art. PTV started well but sadly ended as a 2nd rate Hawkwind tribute act.
The final XTG offering is superb. 40 years on I still enjoy delving in to this. Either it is worthwhile or I need to grow up!
The final crass album 10 notes on a summers day has its avant garde jazz moments.
I am old and out of touch, is anyone producing similar stuff now?
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In reply to aln:
Purient (and all the alias' 'rainforest spiritual enslavement's' my personal favourite)
Swans - Cop
Harvey Milk (the bleakest band ever)
Joyeaux De La Princess (ambient noise that represented epoch's in french history)
Brainbombs - an unhealthy obsession with Peter Sotos and a saxophone (on occasion)
Drunkdriver - one album of noise punk perfection
Boredoms/Yamantaka Eye - the definining figure of Japanese Noise
Lightning Bolt - sheer insanity and an experiment on how hard you can hit a drum
In reply to aln:
I like a bit of weirdness in music and as Hawkwind and Here & Now are getting on a bit I was delighted to hear there's a music genre called "New Weird": https://thequietus.com/articles/27721-gnod-zohastre-edmx-richard-skelton-re...
I got an album by GNOD on the back of it and think this is superb: youtube.com/watch?v=IxCdH-uUvB4&
youtube.com/watch?v=2MHhLDCJ57E&
Death Grips
In reply to goodmorningcaptain:
Had the pleasure of seeing the Boredoms at an ATP in 2010. Fantastic, what a spectacle & sound.
In reply to aln:
Long thread but has anyone mentioned Suicide. Not difficult, a lot of it is standard rock n roll played on unconventional instruments (for the time) but presented in a threatening manner.
I can't help but imagine Elvis singing the first album.
In reply to aln: just saw this on the bbc and it made me chuckle and thought of this thread ( almost viz like in its tone )
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In reply to aln:
It baffles me why anyone listens to Bartok’s work.
Most of jazz sounds like a band warming up before a session.
This one is unusual and could be a challenge youtube.com/watch?v=KSfA0i6Typw&
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