UKH

I've been listening to classical chamber music for a few years now and I haven't found myself obsessively listening to, getting to know, a particular masterpiece for a while. I think I need some input to find more of the really timeless mega-works.

I'm not hugely adventurous, but I'm open to trying new things.

I started off with the Mozart 'Haydn Quartets' and the fantastic viola quintets, the G minor piano quartet. I don't think I'm going to find more revelations in Mozart, genius though it all is.

Schubert - the quintet in C is, I think the pinnacle of all music, ever (except maybe his piano sonatas). The Eb piano trio. The last 3 quartets, particularly the last, are up there.

Beethoven quartets are a given. A lifetime of music - I don't know them all well, but I know what's going on with them. I've listened to the Archduke Trio a few times, and the cello sonatas. Are there other significant Beethoven works I should head for?

I think Mendelssohn is great. Love the octet, but it's a bit jolly for my tastes. His quartets are quite serious and chewy - are any of these regarded as real masterpieces up there with the Schuberts and what have you? 

Dvorak has appeal - can't argue with the American quartet, but I don't find myself obsessing over it the way I do Schubert, Beethoven and Mozart. Brahms I find pretty tough going, maybe I should persevere? But lightness and humour don't ever seem to punctuate the dense seriousness of his music. It takes some resolve to get in Brahms, and I keep giving up.

Now Haydn I keep trying, but I find him a bit dry - just lacking that emotional richness.

I think I want to go later rather than earlier (not arguing with Bach of course, but that's a different genre to me).

Has anyone got classical/romantic era favourites that really are the timeless uber-pieces that belong alongside the Schubert quintet and Mozart's dissonance quartet? I must be missing out on some biggies from more modern composers, but who aren't so modern that I can't get any grip on what they're up to.

What about Schostakowitsch, Ravel, Prokofiev? Did they write uber-classics for a few instruments that reveal the innermost reality of the human soul?

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Have you listened to Shostakovich's string quartets ? Many recordings available, maybe start with the Borodin Quartet ?

In reply to Jon Stewart:

It's long ago, and I'm recommending something I don't remember a note of, just a warm fuzzy feeling of liking it and it feeling spiky and 'modern', but have you tried Bartok's quartets?

In reply to Doug:

Brill thanks, it's these starting points I'm looking for. I've vaguely heard of the Borodin Quartet, I'll give it a go and see where it takes me.

In reply to mbh:

I sort of know what Bartok sounds like, but haven't listened to his quartets. Great suggestion, I'd really forgotten about Bartok!

In reply to Jon Stewart:

I'm a great admirer of Mendelssohn and can listen to the octet till the cows come home. I think his quintets are some of his finest chamber works. but as you say, I feel he isn't held in the same light as Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert etc. The chamber works of Robert Schumann are also favourites of mine along with various later French works. Are you sure you have exhausted Mozart's output?😜    

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Cesar Franck: Sonata for violin and piano in A

If you love Mozart, the pianos concertos recorded by Murray Perahia; as one critic remarked, sometimes God plays the piano.

Finally (may push the boundaries) the Beethoven Late String Quartets; when contemporaries complained that no-one understood the music, he said simply “they will”.

ff

In reply to Jon Stewart:

My particular love after the great lates of Beethoven and Schubert is stuff by the 2nd Viennese School. You could try:

Alban Berg: Lyric Suite

Anton Webern: String Quartet

Arnold Schoenberg: String Quartets 3 & 4 (although the most popular is probably 2). I think these meet your criteria of looking deep into the human soul and have a fractured otherworldly beauty at times. 

For something more modern, you could check out Steve Reich's Different Trains.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

You're all better informed than me on this subject. I am much more aware of symphonic matters and choral works (but not opera), and normally have a season ticket for the proms. 

When I was a student I used to go to a converted church-concert hall,  near Park Circus in Glasgow, and remember a really good group of musicians called Cantilena, so I do not know if they will have any recordings.

Back then, I was persuaded to buy an LP of Smetana quartets by an owner of a record shop on the road that I used to walk to the vet school along, and they are really lovely. They give Smetana's interpretation of his deafness. In fact I keep thinking that I should get a recording of these in modern format. I like listening when I'm in quiet mode.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

The Ravel and Debussy string quartets are excellent, like Cezanne in sound.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Thank you for this. I have trouble dragging myself past 1750 so it is useful to have some new inspiration.

In reply to felt:

i was going to suggest the two quartets of Janáček. Do you rate R & D quartets higher?

In reply to Jon Stewart: as a matter of interest are you streaming this music, buying downloads or buying CDs? I’m stuck with CDs and FM at the moment but thinking of getting a good streamer and tidal or similar subscription 

In reply to Andy Clarke:

I got these, I think on your previous recommendation? Very good but demand attentive listening whereas Beethoven late quartets also work as mood music 

In reply to magma:

I can't remember hearing the Janacek ones. The two French pieces were favourites of the Chilingirian quartet, who had a sort of residency down in Brighton decades ago, so I heard them a lot. Despite knowing the pieces well I'm not sure if I could distinguish them, almost like twin works. I like the well-known Borodin 2nd quartet too, remarkably similar in mood, whimsical, in parts a bit sad, mostly impressionistic.

The Janacek I really want to hear live, in some dingy candle-lit, incense-laden Slavic cathedral, is the fabulously named Glagolitic Mass.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Tchaikovsky wrote wonderful chamber music too.

youtube.com/watch?v=F1DTFZYc8Ow&

In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

I love this (it's used in some of my favourite youtube videos) but haven't explored further:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXnLNdxLENk&ab_channel=RodneyLeinberger

Well, not exhausted, no. The thing with Mozart is, I know pretty much all the late quartets, and I'm aware there's a load more for different ensembles, but I always find myself returning to the G minor quintet, dissonance quartet and g minor piano quartet. Those ones are just better than the rest. Trawling the through the whole of the catalogue is something I might do when I retire, but you kind of know exactly what you're going to get with Mozart - which is no bad thing, I'm just looking for fresh inspiration.

In reply to kevin stephens:

Streaming. Haven't bought a physical format in decades.

In reply to felt:

I loved a Ravel quartet I heard, no idea which one. Any that stand out as the masterworks? 

In reply to Andy Clarke:

Definitely getting adventurous now. Given that Debussy sounds a bit "what is this... is it modern?" to my ears, I think Schoenberg is probably pushing it a bit.

Might have a go next time I'm on LSD. (Not a sarcastic remark!)

In reply to Doug:

Some confusion to clear up here. I've heard some of Alexender Borodin's chamber music, not the Borodin Quartet playing Shostakovich. My previous attempts at listening to Shostakovich's string quartets didn't get very far - something to work up to I think. Going from Mozart to Borodin is fairly easy. Borodin to Shostakovich on the other hand is a different ball game...

Just found this, which reminded me what happened last time I tried to listen to a Shostakovich's string quartet.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/sep/23/shostakovich-where-to-start-w...

In reply to Jon Stewart:

There's just the one, in F major (so too with Debussy, in G minor).

Btw, Shostakovich is completely accessible, a melodist, although perhaps on the angular side. You might easily find yourself humming him on the way into work, for instance. People are just put off because of his forbidding name. If he were called Jones or Barker he'd be all over the hit parade.

In reply to felt:

Ah, that makes things easy. I loved the Ravel. 

I have definitely found myself humming that famous waltz, which isn't crazy at all. The quartet that's linked in that article (no. 3) is a totally different matter. It's panic-inducing dissonance from the word go. Cannot deal with it.

Haha. I'm not completely convinced I'm afraid that the music has nothing to do with it.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

When modern things get a bit angular, have a look at Jan Dismus Zelenka. He isn't quite in the spirit of your OP, in that he died before 1750,  but he is in that you may not have heard of him, yet he is brilliant (albeit, reading between your lines, perhaps a bit too cheerful for you). Try the Trio Sonatas with Heinz Holliger on oboe.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

I'll have to take your word for it. I find the piece charming, lyrical, almost folksy. Of course, given it was written in 1946, some of the dissonant parts reflect what happened in the immediately preceding years, but like much of his music it's basically Wagner sans the 19th-century bollocks, coloured with a dash of Russian rustic oddness. 

In reply to Jon Stewart:

On Radio 3 this morning I heard the Nocturno, Op.7 by Franz Strauss (Richard's dad) and the String Quartet No1 in G minor by Vaughan Williams. Both works that I shall listen to again. Amazing what you find once you start listening to the radio on a wet day!

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Fair enough. Berg would be an easier intro, but will still come as quite a shock after the Debussy.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend Different Trains for this, since the subject matter partly concerns the Holocaust trains crossing Europe during the war (snatches of taped interviews with survivors). Pretty dark. However, an ideal choice might be Reich's lovely Music for 18 Musicians. Also, back in the day, Terry Riley's In C was a popular accompaniment for a bit of spiritual exploration (if one was fed up of the Grateful Dead).

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Maybe not of interest but are you familiar with  Bach's Concertos for 2,3 and 4 harpsichords? 

Absolutely phenomenal stuff.  Such unusual melodies in some, yet still perfectly resolving . 

He was just showing off.   

This has sent me on a YouTube mission to find some of them . 

youtube.com/watch?v=PdNjyzxqmWU& 

I need to see if I have the CDs or audio files anywhere. 

AP

In reply to Archmagos_Dominus:

Great stuff, thanks. That Netherlands Bach Society channel on YouTube is phenomenal. Their period performances are so light, supple and refreshing, and I'm so glad I discovered them a year or so ago as I'd ploughed through all of the equally excellent but much less exhaustive Voices of Music, a San Francisco-based period music channel.

youtube.com/watch?v=1vgfPdeQmuc&

In reply to Jon Stewart:

You could try a bit of Richard Strauss. I find a lot of his music beautiful.

Piano Quartet in C minor: youtube.com/watch?v=yJW-pIpPawk&

Metamorphoses:  youtube.com/watch?v=giB-5PzFbnU&

Also, just Google "Richard Strauss chamber music"

Also Sprach Zarathustra (just a little "also" joke there sorry! Lovely piece but not chamber music) 😁

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Sorry for the confusing phrase, I mean the recordings of Shostakovich's string quartets by the Borodin Quartet. Also a further recomendation for the string quartets by Ravel & Debussy, they each wrote only one. I have a CD somewhere with both  although I can't remember who recorded it (& away from home so can't check).

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Also check out Respighi's chamber music some of which is great. 

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Hi Jon,

Two of Shostakovich’s chamber music pieces stand out for me. The second piano trio which I believe is dedicated to a close friend who died at 41 and (written in 1944) is also inspired by the horrors of the Nazi death camps is at the top of my list of the genre and never fails to move the soul. The piano quintet is a totally different thing, but is an amazing piece of work.

BTW, the piano trio format is my favourite in chamber music. As I write I’m listening to one of Beethoven’s op 70, much less well known than the Archduke, but equally good. The Ravel trio is another all time favourite of mine.

As for Brahms, I have never rated his quartets, but his piano trios are great fun and his clarinet trio, quintet and sonatas are all favourites.

Finally, though I’m not sure it is very “ deep “ I’ve a very soft spot for the Dvorak op81 piano quintet. The opening few bars raise the hairs on the back of my neck.

In reply to mountainbagger:

was hoping someone would mention Strauss and his Metamorphosen: youtube.com/watch?v=MlpNB0WeQaQ& it seems to have become popular in recent years like Mendelssohn's magnificent Octet

also Alpine Symphony of course, but not exactly chamber music?

In reply to felt:

think i'll give Shosta another shot..

I gave Lutoslawki's highly rated string quartet a shot today (similar?) - it's growing on me with a second listen...

youtube.com/watch?v=a-I_igR6o7c&

then i listened to Schnittke's concerto grosso and quartets 2&3 - accessible and modern/old, but too Oasis for you?

In reply to magma:

Yes, do, off topic, but try the 5th, 7th and 10th and 15th symphonies, his major works.

Stretching it to call the Strauss chamber music, I mean how small exactly is your chamber, but if you're doing so you might as well go back to the source, here in pleasant chamber format: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ndVsZIYuzs&

In completely the same vein, what about some very approachable chamber Schoenberg, simply dripping in the Tristan chord:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4eCHbBqfrA&

In reply to Jon Stewart:

re. Brahms 'tough going', try his sextets: youtube.com/watch?v=ebNB6e9hXaA&

In reply to Jon Stewart:

youtube.com/watch?v=wcH056fp6j0& Samuel Barber's String Quartet, Op. 11, second movement

In reply to BusyLizzie:

Don’t worry, it was all downhill after 48 Preludes and Fugues and all his other works

In reply to Archmagos_Dominus:

If you want Bach, don't faff around with serching youtube.

Instead, try this:

https://www.bachvereniging.nl/en/allofbach

The concert for four harpsichords is here:

https://www.bachvereniging.nl/en/bwv/bwv-1065/

CB

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

I thought it was after Buddy Holly that things started going downhill?

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

Oh it was it was!

In reply to BusyLizzie:

Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor, or the B minor mass have a good chance of being the pinnacle of human achievement.

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

Goldberg Variations for me. The human condition from abysmal despair to soaring transcendence. 

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

Yes, I'll go with both those.

I am trying to learn to play all the 48 (on my harpsichord) before I'm 60. Doing it in order of key signature, which makes sense cos you get better at learning them, but it does mean they keep getting harder. 43 down 5 to go.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Right, whoops, sorry Jon, no more baroque nerdiness this thread is about classical chamber music. Sorry!

In reply to BusyLizzie:

How lovely Lizzie. What a magnificent thing.

My one-time landlord had a harpsichord. We bonded when I heard him playing it from above, and he heard the sound [I can imagine his surprise] of Bach's Cello suites from my student stereo below. 

Right, fast forward a century at least.

In reply to Archmagos_Dominus:

I don't know them - for ingenious counterpoint (I'm guessing that's the idea of having 4 harpsichords on the go at once), I like Smalin's animations which I'm sure you'll have seen. This one blew my mind the first time I saw/heard it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua9IpmY8gF4&ab_channel=smalin

In reply to Rog Wilko and everyone:

Thanks for those Rog. I wonder if, in another decade or so I'll be listening to Shostakovich. Who knows. 

So many extremely interesting recommendations on this thread, mainly stuff I've never heard of which I'll come back to over the years. Who knew UKC was such a goldmine of knowledge on challenging 20th Century chamber music?

Just putting some on a nice Mozart violin sonata. Ah, that's better

In reply to BusyLizzie:

Ha, no need to stay on topic! And it's all less classical/romantic oriented than I expected, all the more interesting.

In reply to Jon Stewart

For a lighter contrast to the excellent Schoenberg quartets mentioned earlier I can recommend Mozart’s clarinet quintet and quartets (k374, 580,581) on Naxos. I hadn’t considered Mozart for chamber music but these opened my ears.

In reply to BusyLizzie:

Way back in the day when I was a ‘proper’ classical player in orchestras and ensembles, my accompanyist was working through the 48. So we would work through a flute concerto, then Chris would pull the stops out on the organ for The Art of Fugue. Tremendous, with the Diana’s ons shaking the floor of the organ loft.

how does autocorrect not recognise Diapason?

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Just give that second piano trio a go. To tempt you, I’ll just say it has a totally unique start, with the cello playing harmonics at the level normal reserved for the violin…….  The second movement is a wonderful threnody and the dance of death movement ….. well, defies description.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Another 20C composer I have enjoyed is Rodrigo. Besides his famous concerto for guitar, he has done some truly wonderful piano music, which is not so angular yet is distinctly post 19C in feel. The Gregory Allen album has it all. 

There is also some chamber music with piano and violin, which has a similar feel. Worth a go.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Omg. Thank you, I love it!

In reply to mbh:

I am blessed with tolerant (or deaf) neighbours

In reply to Rog Wilko:

I will do, I'll find the right time.

This thread has reminded me of Bruce Adolph's 'Inside Chamber Music' lectures on youtube, which are very good and cover some of the pieces here. As a non-musician, so of it goes over my head, but I find I enjoy music (and other stuff) more, the more I understand about it.

In reply to Andy Clarke:

Yes, surely one of the greatest two sets of variations ever written. The other being Beethoven's Diabelli. Again, as in the Bach, somehow 'the whole of human life is there.'

In reply to Doug:

If recommending the set of Shostakovich played by the Borodins you need to specify which set! There are three. The original Borodin Quartet recorded quartets 1-13 shortly after they were written, This set is very highly regarded. One member of the quartet died and another defected to the west before quartets 14 and 15 were written. The quartet was then reformed with two new members and recorded all 15 quartets. Over time the members of the quartet changed and the current membership rerecorded the works in 2015-7.

If I was looking for a complete set of all 15 I would actually go for the Fitzwilliam Qt., or alternatively the Emerson or Danel. Or just get all 3 plus the original Borodins - you can't possibly have too many recordings of these wonderful works.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Janacek quartets 1&2:

youtube.com/watch?v=rmOH_myNYko&

youtube.com/watch?v=wkGQivw-2eY&

Schnittke 2&3:

youtube.com/watch?v=OE3aLhNq5G8&

youtube.com/watch?v=36fPvCBYXL8&

In reply to Point of View:

Thanks, I didn't know they had recorded several versions, no idea which I've got, must have a look when I get home. And will listen to the other recordings you mention