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Would you pick up a discarded race riders bottle

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 Seymore Butt 06 Oct 2020

After what happened to G in yesterdays Giro and with Covid19 on the rise again, surely the riders must have a better way than just lobbing their empty water bottles here there and anywhere with complete disregard for the environment and fellow riders safety and expect the public to tidy up after they have gone.

Don't get me wrong i love to watch bike races on TV, although Quests coverage is a bit poor (whats happened to Wiggo? looks like he's been into the pies big time) it always astounds me why the riders dump their rubbish the way they do. Am i missing something ?.                                                          

I mountain bike, don't do road too dangerous for my liking, but i've had the same water bottle for about five years now and never thought of just lobbing it away after each ride.

2
 jethro kiernan 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Seymore Butt:

The Bidon is seen as a bit of a fan trophy so it’s a bit of a tradition, but one that should go now as throwing plastic empties into the hedge row is not a good look. Fines are in place and there are official “litter zones where riders can discard empties, but ther is still away to go.

It sets a bad example especially with the number of amateur sportives we have and cyclists slavish adherence to being “pro” and I’m saying this as a keen cyclist.

2
 Sans-Plan 06 Oct 2020
In reply to jethro kiernan:

Rumour has it the UCI are going to get stricter next year with more fines, quite how they are going to police it remains to be seen.

 cb294 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Seymore Butt:

The very large races seem to have cleared up their act in recent years.

IIRC, in the ASO organized races like the TdF bottles may be dropped wherever there are fans (as they will all be collected!), but other rubbish must be handed back to the support car or disposed of in specified drop corridors.

In this year's tour, riders who were seen or filmed dropped so much as a power bar or gel wrapper were fined several hundred Euros. There were more penalties for this than the other classic, pissing in view of fans...

 Sans-Plan 06 Oct 2020
In reply to cb294:

A 200CHF fine (or whatever it is) for dropping a wrapper is pointless, maybe not to a smaller team over the course of the tour but to the bigger ones its a drop in the ocean to the budget, if they really want to make an impact they should have time penalties for littering infringements, but again, its policing it.

 Ian Patterson 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Seymore Butt:

According to the cycling podcast this morning the bottles in the road at this point were because of the rough cobbles and surprisingly high speeds (in the neutralised zone!) leading to bottles being thrown out of the cages.

In reply to Seymore Butt:

> Would you pick up a discarded race riders bottle

Yes. And then i'd put it in my bag and clean my hands.

 felt 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Ian Patterson:

Elite cages not so elite after all.

 ianstevens 06 Oct 2020
In reply to felt:

No cage is great when you rag it over cobbles tbh

 cb294 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Sans-Plan:

It goes out the rider's pocket, so 200 Euros may be cheap for the superstars, it is more than a slap on the wrist for the domestiques!  Also, they hand out penalties based on TV images.

What more do you want? Torture for the first dropped wrapper, beheading for the second?

The main issue is the environmental footprint of the sponsoring caravan that chuck plastic shit right and left. There must be a better way for commercialising road racing, maybe charge admission to specific sections as in Flanders.

CB

 Seymore Butt 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Ian Patterson:

> According to the cycling podcast this morning the bottles in the road at this point were because of the rough cobbles and surprisingly high speeds (in the neutralised zone!) leading to bottles being thrown out of the cages.


Been down some pretty rough tracks at speed on my mountain bike over the years, never lost a bottle in all that time even on the occasion when i've been thrown over the bars, so they must be pretty shit cages they use.

3
 tomstew 06 Oct 2020
In reply to cb294:

Agree about the plastic wake. Plastic from the caravan + impact of running ~60 team cars/buses 3500km around europe + 100s of media vehicles / helicopters that follow them. 

Interesting thought - should they expect an environmental standard for the vehicles the teams drive?

 felt 06 Oct 2020
In reply to ianstevens:

Some are self-evidently better than others. I've got some Elite custom race ones and this has happened to me. Lightweight vs solidity trade-off.

 cb294 06 Oct 2020
In reply to tomstew:

I think a switch to electrical vehicles is planned. Nothing to be done about the helicopters, though, at least in the near future! Maybe reduce the aerial footage and rely on drones.

CB

 Sans-Plan 06 Oct 2020
In reply to cb294:

If they are serious about stopping it then time penalties are the only way, have a read:

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/uci-plans-to-introduce-time-penalties-for-riders-littering-during-races-470609

 Seymore Butt 06 Oct 2020
In reply to captain paranoia:

> > Would you pick up a discarded race riders bottle

> Yes. And then i'd put it in my bag and clean my hands.

Only your hands ? but not the bottle which could contain the riders saliva and sweat.

 im off 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Seymore Butt:

I thought the bottles were biodegradable and there was a clear up operation by one of the following  entourage. I may be wrong. 

 webbo 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Seymore Butt:

I have bottle cages on one of my bikes that are tight for the bottle and no way is going to bounce out. However I wouldn’t use them in a race as it would be too hard to grab a drink when the hammer had gone down.

In reply to Seymore Butt:

> Only your hands ? but not the bottle which could contain the riders saliva and sweat.

I'd sort that out when I got home. The virus isn't immortal. It will die naturally, without any treatment, if left alone long enough.

 cb294 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Sans-Plan:

That sounds like a good idea for stage races!

CB

edit> The penalty would have to go to the whole team, for a non GC rider it does not matter whether they are down 3h or 4h. Maybe weight penalties would be even better, a 2kg block of lead for every wrapper dropped....

Post edited at 14:24
 Enty 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Seymore Butt:

I've still got Lance's US Postal bottle from the 2004 Ventoux time trial when he threw it and it went straight through Platty's legs

E

 Ian Patterson 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Seymore Butt:

> Been down some pretty rough tracks at speed on my mountain bike over the years, never lost a bottle in all that time even on the occasion when i've been thrown over the bars, so they must be pretty shit cages they use.

As have I, though not on a road bike. at speed and I did give up using a bottle cage on a mountain bike pretty quickly.  If you watch the video carefully you can see them coming up to a cobbled road bump and straight after there are a number of bottles on the road so pretty certain it was them being being bounced out of the cages.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/giro-ditalia/watch-fan-video-shows-geraint-thomas-nasty-crash-at-giro-ditalia-471661

 Seymore Butt 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Enty:

> I've still got Lance's US Postal bottle from the 2004 Ventoux time trial when he threw it and it went straight through Platty's legs

> E

I hope you didn't gain any unfair advantage for your racing after that Ent. Not saying that you would of course.

 Mad Tommy 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Seymore Butt:

To reply to the original question: I did pick one up us from the Tour de Britain a few years ago, and still use it. I swear it makes me go slightly faster, having some professional gear This was obviously pre-covid.

For those who talk about the rubbish: there was a team of marshalls and supporters who walked up the road after the race went by, collecting all the discarded bottles and race rubbish they could find. A good reason why *not* to throw it in the hedge I suppose, and to keep it close to the road, so it is visible and can be cleared away afterwards.

 dabble 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Seymore Butt:

I'd pick it straight up off the floor, drink the remaining dregs (hopefully at least 50 percent washback and saliva) then continue to lick and suck at the teet like a bairn trying to get the last drop of milk from his mam's bosom.

Then I'd go and kiss all my elderly relatives full on the mouth for at least thirty seconds.

1
 tehmarks 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Mad Tommy:

> I swear it makes me go slightly faster...

Maybe it's still tainted with magical substances?

Post edited at 18:32
 Toby_W 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Seymore Butt:

I hit a bit of exhaust in the road two weeks ago, just hit 34 mph, broken every rib on my left side, 3 in more than one place plus shattered collar bone and head to toe road rash.  My hip is the most painful part and I understand I was lucky not to break it plus my spleen.  These guys are so tough, the physiological hit from being injured like this is bad enough but after all the work they put in to prepare for these races ( their job/career) i’m not surprised to see them in tears after such a stupid trivial thing ending their race.

i can’t believe there were bottles loose on the road, it was smooth tarmac and while there was a dip/kick i’d say that was due to poor bottle cages or improperly seated bottles.  I didn’t see that many dropped when I did Paris Roubaix!

My heart goes out to riders when this happens, mend well!!

Cheers

Toby

In reply to ianstevens:

My Elite cage holds my bottle on my MTB over rock gardens and everything gnarly!

 Yanis Nayu 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Seymore Butt:

I said the same thing on Twitter. Apparently it was an irrelevant observation because I’m not a professional cyclist...

> Been down some pretty rough tracks at speed on my mountain bike over the years, never lost a bottle in all that time even on the occasion when i've been thrown over the bars, so they must be pretty shit cages they use.

 Dave Cundy 06 Oct 2020
In reply to dabble

> I'd pick it straight up off the floor, drink the remaining dregs (hopefully at least 50 percent washback and saliva) then continue to lick and suck at the teet like a bairn trying to get the last drop of milk from his mam's bosom.

> Then I'd go and kiss all my elderly relatives full on the mouth for at least thirty seconds.

And you tell that to young folk today  they won't believe you, they won't!

 abr1966 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Toby_W:

That sounds a pretty bad crash Toby....hope you recover soon!

In reply to Toby_W:

> I hit a bit of exhaust

Eh...?

Sorry to hear of your accident, however it was caused.

 Toby_W 07 Oct 2020
In reply to captain paranoia:

Pipe!

Thanks guys, the bones will mend and while the soft tissue strains, pulls and tears are the worst they are also slowly getting better too.  I’m a little bit in shock, denial, disbelief when I list the injuries that i’m now back at home!

Barely a scratch on the bike though I will be stripping it down to check the carbon bits on the front by eye and at work.

I don’t know how they get back on their bikes.  I was picked up off the road.  It must be almost unbearable after the work the put in.  The only thing worse would be similar with an Olympic event every 4 years!

Cheers

Toby 

 cb294 07 Oct 2020
In reply to Toby_W:

Wow, puts my crash in perspective, I just have road rash down the left side shoulder to thigh! Get better soon!

As for bottles at P/R, they supposedly have tighter cages (or some tape wrapped around the clamp), as the bottles would fly on the cobbles without such mods.

BC

In reply to Toby_W:

> Pipe

D'oh! I couldn't get the concept of oily liquid residue out of my head...

My last OTB was due to braking too hard when a suicidal bird ran across the cycle path about 1m in front of me. Brakes so effective, I went over the bars. Fortunately escaped with only a bruised wrist and a minor nick on my leg.

As for bottle cages, I just tried a bungy cord loop to the top of the cage, and loop that over the neck of the bottle.

 LastBoyScout 07 Oct 2020
In reply to Toby_W:

> Thanks guys, the bones will mend and while the soft tissue strains, pulls and tears are the worst they are also slowly getting better too.  I’m a little bit in shock, denial, disbelief when I list the injuries that i’m now back at home!

Ouch - get well soon

> Barely a scratch on the bike though I will be stripping it down to check the carbon bits on the front by eye and at work.

Hope the bike is ok

> I don’t know how they get back on their bikes.  I was picked up off the road.  It must be almost unbearable after the work the put in.  The only thing worse would be similar with an Olympic event every 4 years!

I knew someone on the GB team who broke her collar bone on a training ride the week before the Olympic triathlon!

In reply to cb294:

> The very large races seem to have cleared up their act in recent years.

> IIRC, in the ASO organized races like the TdF bottles may be dropped wherever there are fans (as they will all be collected!), but other rubbish must be handed back to the support car or disposed of in specified drop corridors.

> In this year's tour, riders who were seen or filmed dropped so much as a power bar or gel wrapper were fined several hundred Euros. There were more penalties for this than the other classic, pissing in view of fans...

Gad t hear it. Let's face it, with a power gel wrapper, there is no excuse as ithas no weight or 'Aero' penalty if put back in a pocket. The bidons are a safety issue as well environmental problem

 Tricky Dicky 07 Oct 2020
In reply to Seymore Butt:

Dr Hutch has suggested that riders wear camelbacks and that team cars have refueling hoses trailing out of them, like the airforce use for midair refuelling!!!

 felt 07 Oct 2020
In reply to Tricky Dicky:

Do we like the sound of sticky hoses?

Incidentally, Lanterne Rouge said that bottles kept popping out of cages all day on Stage 4.

 Martin Wood 07 Oct 2020
In reply to Toby_W:

I had similar in 2014. Usual road rash plus ribs, pelvis, pneumothorax, spleen and aortic damage. 

Hope you have a speedy recovery, Toby.

 cb294 08 Oct 2020
In reply to Martin Wood:

Aortic damage is cutting it quite close! Glad you are still around to post!

CB

 nufkin 08 Oct 2020
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

>  The bidons are a safety issue as well environmental problem

I seem to remember someone - possibly even G. - being somewhat caustic a while ago in a post-race interview after there was a bit of a tangle caused by a rider swerving to avoid a bottle; 'they squash, ride over them', or words to that effect, was the gist...

 Martin Wood 08 Oct 2020
In reply to cb294:

Yes, the consultant joked that his patient meetings were usually much quieter! I suffered massive chest compression after hitting a chevron sign on a corner at 30+mph. More damage than I've ever done to myself in 30+ years of extreme climbing

 Toby_W 08 Oct 2020
In reply to Martin Wood:

Yep, they said I was lucky (and I do feel really lucky) not to have done my spleen and pelvis. I really want to sit in a pub with climbing biking friends and talk about it, say f**k I burst bits of my lungs, get it off my chest .  I am healing well but I am trying to book something with a counsellor or psychologist.  The reason being when I broke my leg climbing, a fairly benign and interesting experience it was not till two years later that I felt better.  Having spent an afternoon messing around on a big icicle with a rope as there was nothing else to do I suddenly felt this tension and anxiety lift off my shoulders.  The thing that shocked me was I was not even aware of it until it went!!  It was a bit of an eye opener in that I felt mine was a trivial accident and I imagined how awful this could be for someone who had done something more traumatic.  So now I thought it would probably not be a bad thing to get a couple of head sessions alongside the physio.

Hell of a thing but I am mending well and with such a sh*tty year it has lovely how kind and supportive people from every aspect of my life have been

Many thanks and I hope you’re all mended too!

Toby

 Martin Wood 08 Oct 2020
In reply to Toby_W:

I can't comment on the counselling - although I expect the advice would be the same - but from physio/physical aspect, don't rush things.

Of all my injuries the pneumothorax was most terrifying at the crash site (couldn't breath) The ruptured spleen was obviously a medical emergency - I was airlifted to hospital. The ribs were the most painful but least important during recovery. My pelvis (fractured sacrum) was what really worried me. I didn't want to be approaching my mid-50s now with joint pain and/or a limp.

I was fastidious with physio and just took things very gently. I think it was 5 months before I got back on the bike seriously. Touch wood 6 years on, I've had zero problems, apart from post-splenectomy annual booster vaccinations. 

To end on a positive note, domestically I was "allowed" to buy a shiny new Colnago ;-) 

 Toby_W 08 Oct 2020
In reply to Martin Wood:

Thank you Martin, you made me laugh, ouch, and it’s very reassuring to hear you’re well!

Cheers

Toby


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