UKH

Driving south on A82 from Fort William, approaching Corran Ferry, then on Rannoch Moor and then Loch Lomond side groups of slow moving cyclists slowed and periodically stopped the traffic. Large container lorries would not have been able to pass the cyclists safely! The cyclists would often impatiently wave traffic on...and into potential danger; transgressing double white no overtaking lines, bends and oncoming traffic - not to mention the 1.5 metre rule. I have never seen Scotland so busy, tourist and car wise. Would you cycle the A82 (and other similar roads) and declare it a pleasant experience with massive tailbacks at your rear wheel? What would you do....pull over? I ask this as a cyclist and car driver.

In reply to gilliesp:

Not in a million years, because you can doesn't mean you should, you would need a death wish for sure, i do cycle.

This is based on years of prior knowledge of the road, Loch lomond the Rannoch mor it doesn't bare thinking about, the windy stretch into Fort William is notorious for bike accidents, i guess some cyclists would just not know what to expect, but i'm sure they would not like a repeat the experience.

In reply to Andy Clarke1965:

Not for me, but roads are few and far between and lateral thinking is required to cross Scotland pleasurably by bike.  Don't forget that many LeJOG books direct cyclists that way, and if you weren't Scottish based you wouldn't know how nasty that cycle would be, or what the alternatives are and are trusting to the guidebook........I suspect many LeJOG riders get to Inverness after doing the A82 and the Great Glen (yes some authors send people along the NW side of Lochness !) and think, that it can only get better..............if they are carrying on up the A9 for the duration they are in for a shock, though the traffic does thin out  (or used to) once N of Glospie/Brora/Helmsdale.

On the other end of the spectrum, many roads in the far N and NW, that were good for cycle touring, are fecked courtesy of the NC500.  Personally I don't think West coast cycle touring is very good....unless you go Island hopping, and use ferries to get you away from the arterial loops. Even then I only tend to go out in the late Autumn.

In reply to Andy Clarke1965:

I am sure both of us who were in the car would agree with you. Surely the cyclists hadn't prior knowledge but even then I do wonder about their collective wisdom. Why they did not pull over into parking where possible is a mystery; they would have had to repeat that action many times though.

In reply to gilliesp:

Not for me, and after last years near death ( for the pedestrian) miss when a tourist crossed the A82 at Rannoch after a northbound vehicles had passed her putting her approx 50 ft from my 50mph southbound car then I’m not too keen on driving it! 

In reply to gilliesp:

Most cyclists doing this route will be Lejogers or Joglers and probably don't know the area well and/or are trying to do the most direct route.

When I did it in 2012 we turned left at Loch Lomand onto the a83 and then went over to Cladich which added a significant number of miles but was much more pleasant.

Even looking on Google maps/streetview wouldn't indicate how dangerous it really is as most of the traffic will not be shown so I wouldn't necessarily blame the cyclists, but if caught on such a road I would probably look at the map and decide if safer to continue with stops to let people by or to turn around and take a different route (which may bring other issues such as pre-booked accomodation etc.

The real question is why the road is so dangerous and inadequate for its purpose (not to mention the driving standards)

In reply to gilliesp:

Basically it's what I'd do if I were to wake up in a foul mood hell bent on p*ssing off as many people as possible while still being 'Within my rights'

;p

In reply to ScraggyGoat:

I don't know much about it, but roughly how many NC500 cars would pass you per minute in the various months of the year? Or is it not about the number but the speed?

In reply to gilliesp:

Having been up and down to Skye quite a few times for work recently I was also surprised by the numbers of cyclists. There's some absolute man eating pot holes on on the A82 near the Kingshouse - ski centre, they would give cars a problem, bikes have to swerve around them into the traffic, plus as others have noted the wind(!)

I don't think there is much alternative though

In reply to gilliesp:

Overnight is the best option these days. Mate of mine just cycled from North Uist to Central Belt overnight. Nice and quiet. A quick kip in an audax hotel in Crianlarich and he was right. 

It needs a big  wack of road infrastructure investment  to create bike paths. 

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Is it possible to cycle from Tyndrum to the top of Glencoe on the WH way? I’ve never walked it so don’t know, but it would make a nicer alternative to the A82? 

In reply to gilliesp:

Nope.

In reply to Dave the Rave: It would be possible to cycle almost all the way from Tyndrum to Glencoe village avoiding the A82, via the WHW / old road / back roads to Inveroran and clachaig. Possibly doable with a gravel bike, but mountain bike probably better. After that, there is a cycle track all the way to Corran, but unfortunately most LEJOG cyclists seem to be unaware of this, or unwilling to use it. From Corran you can then get the ferry to ardgour, cycle to treslaig, and over to FW on the wee passenger ferry. Personally I wouldn't fancy the A82 much, though it can be quietish in the evening. I am guessing (never having done LEJOG), that after several days on the road the temptation is just to bash on with whatever is quickest, but most must have a lycra filling near miss or two in the course of doing so... 

In reply to gilliesp:

Saw a few bikepackers on the road to Glencoe on Sunday, struggling uphill at a snail's pace with a queue of traffic breathing down your neck did not look appealing. The longest queue, though, was behind a guy on a skateboard coming down the steep twisty section from the viewpoint to Loch Tulla. Glasgow Fair weekend!

In reply to gilliesp:

Nothing constructive to add to the discussion as I'm not familiar with the road in question, but a minor point: as far as I'm aware it's not illegal to cross a solid white line to overtake a vehicle going substantially slower than you (ie a cyclist or tractor) if it is safe to do so, in the same way it's not illegal to cross a solid line to make a right turn. Obviously there's a good chance you won't be able to judge whether it's safe to do so or not though because the solid line is often there due to visibility constraints, but it's not against the law.

In reply to gilliesp:

It isn’t at the top of my list of desirable roads to cycle, but I’d do it if it got me where I wanted to go - there isn’t a massive amount of road choice in that part of the world really. I do sometimes use the A82 between Inverness and Drumnadrochit - not quite as busy there but not so different. Roads are for anyone who wants to use them, not just cars.

In reply to felt:

I have been motorcycle touring round Scotland for years, miles of quiet roads, no planning just grabbing a B&B when the sun starts going down. 

Not anymore though, everywhere is booked up months in advance and last time I went the quiet roads were full of sports cars, camper vans and motorbikes. 

I meet a lot of bikers when I'm out and about and ever since some muppet drew a line on a map and called it the NC500 its suddenly on everyone's must ride / drive list. 

Seems that as soon as something has a name all the sheep have to do it. Apparently you don't drive or ride it, the correct terminology is "have you done the NC500 yet" 

In reply to gilliesp:

Could I reword your OP slightly?

Given this road is so busy and the obvious dangers that this causes due to its narrow nature, as a cyclist do you think it’s wise to cycle it? If so , why? 

Forget holding people up and all that.

I cycle too.

In reply to Dave the Rave:

From the car most of it looked like a forestry commission track, so easily doable on a MTB.

In reply to DH3631:

That sounds like a great way of getting up to the Fort, far better than cycling on any road. You could, I imagine, just follow the WHW over the Devil's Staircase and then on to the Fort if you didn't want the extra miles involved in going over to Ardgour.

In reply to Dave the Rave:

It's possible to ride the whole of the WHW, preferably on a MTB but guess it could be done on a CX bike

As for riding the A82, no, it's something I've so far chosen to avoid, and intend to stick to that

It will be JOGLE / LEJOG folks though, going short route and not knowing any better, good luck to them!

In reply to tehmarks:

Thank you for that info. If I remember correctly the lines on the winding road just south of the Fort were double solids. 

In reply to Dave the Rave:

I have no problem with that.

In reply to gilliesp:

The vehicle or cyclist that you cross a solid white line for must be travelling at 10mph or less.

In reply to Dax H:

So your machine and the machines of the other bikers are quiet and don't make the quiet roads noisy? Or is it just your machine that's quiet and the other bikers' machines are noisy? Or maybe the machines are only noisy if they're doing the NC500 but quiet if they're doing a spot of whimsical touring?

In reply to felt:

Who mentioned anything about noise, you asked about volume of traffic not the volume of the various engines. 

When I used the term "quiet roads" I was referring to the lack of traffic not the DB level on the road. 

For the record my bike is pretty quiet, unlike a lot of nobs on bikes I don't feel the need to replace the highly regulated exhaust silencer with a noisy aftermarket one. 

In reply to Dax H:

Sorry, I thought 'quite' was related to 'noise'. My mistake.

In reply to gilliesp:

Having driven up and down the A82 in a car many times over the last couple of decades I just simply wouldn't cycle on it. 

And as if I needed that mindset confirming, I saw this earlier this year on You Tube...Im fairly sure its on the northern end of the Loch Lomond stretch of the A82 which is bad enough in a car!!

youtube.com/watch?v=amWgmy0hBCM&

In reply to gilliesp:

For whatever reason my phone won't let me paste into this text box from another website, but the relevant Highway Code rule is 129 and essentially states that you can cross double solid lines to turn right or to overtake a stationary obstruction or a pedal cyclist, horse or road maintenance vehicle travelling at 10mph or less.

In reply to gilliesp:

I'm not sure, but I wouldn't drive on it. 

In reply to gilliesp:

I rode it a number of times in the late 70's on camping holidays riding from Northumberland to Mull, Fort William and Skye. Back then there was hardly any traffic and it was a very pleasant experience. Now I live in Scotland and have no desire to even drive those roads.

In reply to Pids:

I haven't done it, but in mountain biking and bikepacking circles the bit of the WHW along the east shore of Loch Lomond has a reputation for being thoroughly miserable with a bike.  "Essentially unrideable" I've been told by at least one person. Not sure if anyone here has done it on a bike and thinks that is to harsh?

In reply to gilliesp:

Not in a million years! 

I chatted with a cyclist group planning on using that road recently and suggested it was not wise for the reasons you mention. I also pointed out there is a cycle route from Inverness to Glasgow all off main roads.

I cycled from Ireland to Turkey last year all on roads. I still wouldn't want to cycle on the A82! 

In reply to TobyA:

I haven't ridden it, and haven't ridden much full stop, but I'd agree the E shore of LL stretch of the WHW is essentially unrideable much of the way. It's a great walk or run, but even that's no stroll 

In reply to gilliesp:

East shore of Loch Lomond - the unrideable  bit is the last couple of k north to Inversnaid, then onwards to the Drovers. Probably only about 7k. Up to Rowchoish, there’s a very friendly Land Rover track.

In reply to Dax H:

On the way back from Orkney last weekend we drove a short stretch of the NC500, from the Gill's Bay ferry terminal to Melvich (where we have family connections) via a short diversion to Dunnet Head.  I have to say that I didn't notice any particularly poor behaviour on the road, apart perhaps from one rather unnecessarily close pass on a fellow riding a pannier-festooned touring bicycle.  (The motor vehicle involved was a fairly mundane mid-size hatchback, not a prestige sports car or anything like that - quite likely a local in fact.)  The road wasn't particularly busy, either, and I don't recall many if any camper vans.  What was quite heartening was seeing how many cyclists were doing the route (though most of them were riding light and obviously using support vehicles).  The majority seemed to be going west-east - is there a reason for that?

We booked our room at the Melvich Hotel one month to the day before our stay there.  It wasn't full the night we stayed.

Given that we're in pretty much in peak holiday season now, it seems strange (though obviously not beyond statistical probability) that my experience of the route was so benign in comparison to yours.  I have read bad things about the impact of the NC500 designation.  I wonder whether it's a passing fad that will level off to a more sustainable volume of participants once the initial spurt of interest has subsided?  (We met a couple at our last overnight stop who'd just been to Skye, and what they said they found there made it sound as if the pressure of visitor numbers has declined somewhat since I was last there two years ago, at pretty much the peak of the Outlander-induced tourist frenzy.)

In reply to Martin W:

By contrast, I was on the Applecross peninsula at the beginning of May, and it was clear that many drivers were unfamiliar and uncomfortable with single-track roads and (I fear this may offend the motorcyclists), most bikers were very reluctant to use passing places. 

But the most out-of-place vehicle was a very lowslung Ferrari whose owner was clearly unhappy with the lack of clearance under his car and who was forced to a crawl to prevent bottoming out. Not quite the thrill of the open road he may have been hoping for!

In reply to Martin W:

West-east has the best chance of going with the prevailing wind.

In reply to baron:

Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26

In reply to gilliesp:

I run a bike shop in glencoe village and was a keen road cyclist and raced. I would not cycle the A82 as its too busy and too dangerous. It costs me business to say that as I am listed in the cicerone JOGLE guidebook. Never a day goes by when there isn't a near miss or worse a deliberate attempt to harm a cyclist. I have been overtaken by a car which pulled in front of me, deliberately did an emergency stop and put me over the roof with the driver out shouting he was suing me for damaging his car. Luckily plenty of witness's from walkers at a car and police involved, always hassle on that road.  A lot of Jogle/LJog folk now ride it at night. The combo of shite road, potholes, wind and hateful drivers make it a very unpleasant experience. Route 78 the Caledonia Way however is quiet, safe and has stunning scenery and would be my route of choice up the West, then the Corran Ferry, N. Side Linnhe, and either Ferry or Loch Eil and Great Glen Way then Cycle path into Inverness

In reply to Davy Gunn:

Well, that's a sobering graphic description of cycling hell! Trust that driver experienced a legal hit? Criminal! I've thought about planting a bike to return to start and parked car after doing Aonach Eagach, west to east, to benefit from downhill assistance but that's maybe for early or late season and midweek.

In reply to Martin W:

In fairness it is just less than 2 years since I was last up there and it was certainly very busy. Maybe most people have "done" the NC500 now.

West to East, personally I love the West Side and am not a fan of the East. 

In reply to Harry Jarvis:

That was true in Orkney, and on the A897 south from Melvich.  I don't believe think that drivers unfamiliar with single track roads with passing places is a phenomenon limited to the NC500.  Though I would seriously question the wisdom of including such roads on a route the whole purpose of which is to encourage more traffic.

I've only just now looked at the full NC500 route map on the northcoast500.com web site.  I'm not familiar with most of the roads in the north-western part of the route but reference to the OS suggests that a fair bit of it does indeed use single track roads with passing places, some of which e.g. the A836 from Bettyhill to Tongue is also marked as an on-road cycle route.  Hmm...

In reply to Dax H:

Possibly so, much as I postulated might be the case with Skye, based on the conversation with some recent visitors to the island that I reported in my post yesterday cf my own experience there two years ago.

There is a risk, I think, that a panic/kneejerk reaction to a short-term bout of over-popularity is to build more infrastructure - or upgrade existing infrastructure* - to cope with numbers that turn out to be a temporary peak.  So money gets spent and locations spoiled (to a greater or lesser extent) for no ultimate reason.  That kind of response also ignores other potential steps that could be taken to reduce honey-potting, such as publicising alternative attractions in the general area.

* e.g. the proposal to increase the size of the Fairy Pools car park in Glen Brittle.  When we went there the problem wasn't a lack of overall parking space, but lazy gits who found the Fairy Pools car park full and dumped their cars on the roadside, while the Square Mile car park less than half a mile back up the hill was half empty.  IIRC that whole stretch of road is signed as a clearway so parking along it is illegal (though I doubt whether there are enough police officers on Skye to enforce such restrictions on an adequately regular basis).  It also blocks the passing places and leads to huge ruts being gouged in the soft peat verges by ignorant drivers who seem to struggle to grasp the concept of a road having an actual edge which you really would be better off not trying to take your vehicle beyond, no matter how rufty-tufty you think your Chelsea tractor might be (not that you've ever actually tried driving it on anything less solid than a gravel drive before).

In reply to Martin W:

One of the problems with the NC 500 is its actual location.

My wife and I have been to Scotland many times but this year we decided to visit all the places we’d always wanted to see but hadn’t been to. Usually because they were a long way from Merseyside where we live.

So, being the proud owners of a huge motorhome we sat down and made a list of those places which we’d visit on a one week tour.

The list went something like Inverness, John O’Groats, Dunnett Head, Durness, Scourie, Ullapool and Applecross.

So what we came up with was basically the route of the NC500.

If people have to drive a long, long way then they’re going to want to fit in as many places as possible.

Whoever came up with the idea, I think it might have been Prince Charles, in order to promote the quieter parts of Scotland has succeeded in increasing visitor numbers dramatically but also destroyed that made the area so attractive in the first place.

And yes I know I’m as guilty as the next tourist.

In reply to baron:

Dunno - we were up around Ullapool in May, and on that experience I'd say that reports of its destruction have been greatly exaggerated...

In reply to Ramblin dave:

Yes, maybe destroyed was too strong a term to use.

In reply to gilliesp:

At the other end of the country in Cornwall, on my way to/from work, I often pass LEJOG/JOGLErs on the remaining single carriageway part of the A30, between Carland Cross and Chiverton roundabouts. At least, I guess it's either them or naive commuters who will soon learn, since why else would you do it? It's a death trap for a cyclist in normal traffic. The dual carriageway parts are safer, but still really unpleasant for cycling. 

The best alternatives are do it at night, or to follow the very pleasant but longer and much hillier national cycle route 3.

In reply to mbh:

I drive a big container waggon for a living, I also cycle. I don't like driving the A82 never mind cycling it. Luckily I don't have to go that way often, there's not much industry up there. I did go up to Fort William last week, delivering a new snow factory to Nevis Range. I only saw one cyclist and she was going the other way, she did look hassled though.

I'm thinking of going to the outer isles next year by bike, trying to work out a route from Stirling to Oban and back from Ullapool avoiding busy roads is providing to be a nightmare. If only you could rely on taking your bike on the trains.

In reply to OwenM:

Best of luck with your planning. The train business raised its ugly head recently when two friends, having cycled Hebrides then cross country from Ullapool, were prevented (vague Scotrail reason) from taking their already booked bikes onto the Inverness/Glasgow train and had to leave them in Inverness! All the way down their booked bike spaces remained unused! I've never had a problem if I've booked, especially like theirs but am now more than a bit concerned.

In reply to gilliesp:

I've heard so many horror stories I won't even try to use the trains. Just trying to find backroads or even estate roads that go my way.

In reply to gilliesp:

As an adventure lover I would love to!