Testing a touring bike

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J1234 15 May 2020

Obviously we are in strange times, however I being drawn to Bike Touring, where would people suggest to go to test ride a touring bike ( I understand I may have to wait awhile), they seem so different to whatI ride now and some are quite a lot of money, so a test ride seems a plan.

 Andy Hardy 15 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

Do you mean try out at a shop, or where to go for a first tour?

Le Sapeur 15 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

Just sit on the thing in the shop. You'll know straight away if it feels right. 

However if you want a test route I can recommend the Carretera Austral in Chile.

2
J1234 15 May 2020
In reply to Andy Hardy:

Where to test a bike, there is so much choice, and I guess I could go on any bike, but may as well get a good tool for the job, and I assume its like a bed or a pair of shoes, you cannot beat giving a go.

J1234 15 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

The tour I fancy is cycling to Istanbul, it looks very doable, after that we shall see. I do like cycling.

 Jim Lancs 15 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

(This reply is lagging a bit behind the thread!) And by touring bike do you mean a classic cycle-touring bike (Hewitt / Dawes etc) or a more modern styled 'bike packing' one?

Or to put it another way, do you want to ride predominantly on the road (although not exclusively so), through all sorts of countryside including hilly terrain like the Alps with full camping kit, or alternatively, still staying on the road, but sprinting between B&Bs with a credit card in your back pocket.

Or is it long off road rides like the great divide ride from Canada to Mexico on dirt roads and tracks? 

If camping, is your idea of camping sitting head room for two in the tent with a well cooked meal of local produce, or bivi-ing in a culvert under the road heating a de-hy meal for one by clamping it tightly between your thighs?

Finally, how much money have you got ?

Post edited at 21:10
J1234 15 May 2020
In reply to Jim Lancs:

Road and camping. I would potentially if convinced go to £2- £2.5K, but that seems and awful lot of money for a push iron, but nothing compared to a motorbike.
I am a wuss, but really love meeting people, and the beauty of cycling ( or trains) is that you meet people. Its the people that make the journey.

 Andrew W 15 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

Shops wise I would probably look at SPA cycles https://www.spacycles.co.uk/ and SJS https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/ that said when I built mine up I ended up speaking to my LBS and then getting them to do most of the building up and sourcing some bits from other shops.

If your looking at getting a dynamo front hub then lots of the German online stores often work out to be cheaper even after postage.

J1234 15 May 2020
In reply to Andrew W:

Thank you, I am East Lancs, but Harrogate is not really that far me. 

Post edited at 21:38
 Jim Lancs 15 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

Your profile says you're in Lancashire so one option to source a bike (but probably not test one) is Paul Hewitt in Leyland.

There's a few real basics that make a touring bike work well. Get these right and 'testing' one is not so important as you can rely on the fact these things have 100 years of evolution and individual builders have long established reputations with a product that is very 'mature'.

So my basics would be a proper fitting session on a jig to ensure a comfortable fit, well built wheels (by a superb wheel builder), but not overly heavy rims, and a wide enough spread of gears (17 - 100 inches in old money). You get all this with Hewitt, plus a totally anal retentive obsessive build quality.

I haven't checked, but with racks and panniers I would still think you would be comfortably under £2000, especially if you resist the urge to go with a fancy paint job.

This would give you a 'classic', steel framed, 700 x 35c wheeled, 27 speed, bar end shifted, cantilevered braked, Brookes saddled British touring bike. I've ridden mine all over and it's perfect.

However ! There are other options, even from Hewitts, such as titanium frames, disk brakes, much wider tyres, hub gears, etc, etc.  It's easy to find bikes with these, but you need to know a lot more about bikes to evaluate what you are being offered. It could well be you might be the guinea pig for someone's 'latest good idea'. There's also a lot of 'fashion' driving the gravel bike craze at the moment. Caveat Emptor.

https://road.cc/content/review/121595-hewitt-cycles-cheviot-se-touring-bike

Post edited at 21:52
cb294 15 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

Long time that I have been long distance touring (Bavaria to North Cape etc...), but here goes:

If you want a dynamo front hub, SON is the ONLY brand you should consider. So much better than Shimano!

I generally prefer modified race bikes for road touring, and rather try to go ultra light with my luggage. However, I used a steel framed Patria touring bike with disc brakes, SON dynamo hub, Supernova lights, Brooks seat and handles, and a Rohloff hub as my winter commuter bike. With heavy kit that would be my preferred touring setup.

And again, as in any bike thread, I bought that bike used, and added the lighting system, changed the saddle and handle bars, pedals, better luggage rack, mud guards, tires..... If you want to go long distance touring, you are eventually going to customise every single bit anyway, so you might as well start with a used bike as basis!

CB

cb294 15 May 2020
In reply to Jim Lancs:

I sold the touring commuter bike I described above and replaced it with a cyclocross bike for commuting: My work commute is 3 miles steep uphill on forest dirt tracks, and the tourer was just too heavy. The Specialized Crux cross bike I now use (again bought used!) is now my favourite bike. 1x11 is a good alternative to hub shifting, and quite a bit lighter.

Would have loved to keep the tourer, but ran against the D-1 barrier...

CB

J1234 15 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

Thanks all, I do have some chums, who are very experienced cyclists, though sadly cannot meet up at the moment, sounds like I need to chat with them, but watch out for their biases.
What do you reckon to flats v drops, one friend who has cycled for over 50 years favours flats.

 daftdazza 15 May 2020

There is so much options now for touring bikes, and technology has moved on, so old reliable makes like thorn are no longer cool, if all you want to do is road cycling, then old traditional steel tourers still make sense, but a modern alloy bike with good wheels is going to be lighter, faster and just as comfortable.  Alpkit allow you test bikes, and think you could also check our fairlight, big brother, mason bikes, nordest and several other new ish small brands that will let you try before you buy.

 Andrew W 15 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

Another forum to look for info would be the CTC one https://forum.cyclinguk.org/ as its full of useful bits on bike set up and various pros and cons.

Personally I'm a fan of drop bars with bar end shifters mainly as that's what I'm used to and as it gives you more hand positions for long days in the saddle, but drop bar touring bikes seems to be a fairly British thing as lots of the other I've seen are on flat bars and it seems to work for them.

 artif 15 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

Not much in testing but plenty of advice on what does and doesn't work here

https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/

cb294 15 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

Normally I would say drop bars. Flat bars are for MTBs.

However, that is mainly for riding on the hoods, I rarely use the actual drops except for descending or "The Race".

For my steel tourer I therefore had a flattish bar that was dropping only slightly but was strongly swept back (actually is was meant to rise but I mounted it upside down). Best of both worlds, really, as it was much less faff to mount the twist shifter for the Rohloff hub.

CB

J1234 15 May 2020
In reply to cb294:

>  the Rohloff hub.

>

This just means nothing to me, HVS 5b, thats my language, I know exactly what that is. Maybe I should just stop over thinking, buy a bike and get pedalling.

 Dave Cundy 15 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

I can't help you with testing a bike (I escaped the Fylde and ended up in Bristol) but I also got into bike touring ten years ago, so i can offer a few words on what to ride.

I don't think you need to spend 2 or 3K on a bike.  A £1K road bike will do just fine.  Mine hasn't got mounts for traditional panniers but i can still get 8 kg of stuff on it (tent, sleeping bag, mat, a few clothes, a bit of food and a small stove).

I use an Alpkit stingray to fill the triangular frame space, plus their 13 litre bar bag and an Apidura saddle bag and a home-made bag for the tent.  My all-up weight is 18kg.

I've passed tourers whose bikes must have weighed 25-30 kg. That's with 4 panniers. They might be more comfortable than me at the campsite but must have a bit of a miserable ride.

Hence my suggestion to go with a standard road bike and bags first.  If you feel you need more kit, you you can always get a more expensive, dedicated tourer set-up later when you've worked out where your ambitions lie.

Gone for good 15 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

Have a read of this. Looks like a great piece of kit for long distance touring. 

https://www.cyclingabout.com/tour-with-a-rohloff-hub/

 Dave Cundy 15 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

> This just means nothing to me, HVS 5b, thats my language, I know exactly what that is. Maybe I should just stop over thinking, buy a bike and get pedalling.

Exactly .

A guy called Mike Hall worked in my office  about five years ago (broke the world record for cycling round the world a few years before).  Very unassuming but very clear headed and determined.  He let me borrow his bike-bags for a trip to Denmark.

Mike was of the opinion that you didn't need the absolute lightest kit. You needed a balance between weight and functionality.  After that, you just needed the desire to get out there and do it.

There's plenty of blogs on the web about people who have had a fantastic time doing big tours.  No reason why you can't

 LastBoyScout 15 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

There's a few Facebook groups for this sort of thing, such as: https://www.facebook.com/groups/longdistancecyclists/

But also a ton of fora, if you look for them, such as https://bikepacking.com/.

Here's some ideas: https://bikepacking.com/bikes/2019-silk-road-mountain-race-rigs/

Not much in the way of panniers, but pretty good cross-section of bike builds.

My current touring set-up is a steel MTB with flat bars, but could strap my Ortlieb luggage on my CX bike for more roadie trips.

 mike123 16 May 2020
In reply to J1234: £2 - £2.5 k should  get you a coustom built steel framed tourer . It will become your favourite bike and will last you along time . Mines was built for me by Dave Yates and he's not that far from east lancs. 

http://www.daveyatescycles.co.uk/Contact/

cb294 16 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

Rohloff is a German company that makes a 14 gear hub gearbox. Ideal for commuting in shit weather and for long distance touring, as they are a bit heavier but virtually indestructible, unlike normal derailleurs.

CB

 abr1966 16 May 2020
In reply to Dave Cundy:

> I can't help you with testing a bike (I escaped the Fylde and ended up in Bristol) but I also got into bike touring ten years ago, so i can offer a few words on what to ride.

> I don't think you need to spend 2 or 3K on a bike.  A £1K road bike will do just fine.  Mine hasn't got mounts for traditional panniers but i can still get 8 kg of stuff on it (tent, sleeping bag, mat, a few clothes, a bit of food and a small stove).

> I use an Alpkit stingray to fill the triangular frame space, plus their 13 litre bar bag and an Apidura saddle bag and a home-made bag for the tent.  My all-up weight is 18kg.

> I've passed tourers whose bikes must have weighed 25-30 kg. That's with 4 panniers. They might be more comfortable than me at the campsite but must have a bit of a miserable ride.

> Hence my suggestion to go with a standard road bike and bags first.  If you feel you need more kit, you you can always get a more expensive, dedicated tourer set-up later when you've worked out where your ambitions lie.

OP......herein lies the main dilemma! 

I have the opposite set up....steel frame bike (Dawes), Ortlieb panniers at the back and a handlebar bag for the front. Its not lightweight at all....and neither am I!!

I've tried the bikepacking approach but I wasn't keen.....it didn't suit my kit either. I put up with the weight as I prefer a spacious tent and plenty of comforts!

I also find the speed of it all more favourable when touring....steady plod and have a look around etc. I used a mates cross bike with Alpkit bags when I tried bikepacking but I found I was riding more with my head down and when it came to camping I was uncomfortable in a 1 man tent I couldn't sit up in.....

Just bought an MSR Elixir 2 for use on the bike....its very comfy and a palace inside but that's the trade off.....I just prefer the comfort for the extra weight but I usually ride about 50-60 miles a day if not too hilly so I'm not doing big distances and never on a schedule if I can avoid it...

J1234 16 May 2020
In reply to cb294:

Thank you for that. My comment was no criticism of you just saying how little I know.

People have told me to buy secondhand, however I worry over getting fit right and a bike with Reynolds 4567, shimano57894 , Sherega 4532, means nothing to me, I suppose I just need to study.

however I have spent years selling beds and the people who focus on sprimg counts and wool densities, usually seem to buy the wrong bed, whereas the people who just lie on a few and buy a decent priced priced one that feels right, seem to make the better decisions.

1
 Wimlands 16 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

I bought a specialised tricross 6 years ago.

it’s heavy, the brakes are very poor and I really don’t like the triple chain set...But it is far and away the best thing I have bought. Huge enjoyment riding it.

Guess what I’m saying is that there is no need to over think it...get one that fits and you like the look of.

 earlsdonwhu 16 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

I've been happy with my Dawes Ultra Galaxy but if you do a long tour abroad you will come across folk riding absolutely all sorts from the Georgian guy we met on a postman's bike that looked like it was made from scaffolding poles to Americans on state of the art tandems and triples. Europeans tend to favour flat bars . Although inefficient for riding some suspension can help on East European cobbles! Like any kit compromise is inevitable.

J1234 16 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

Would I be correct that, fit, fit and fit are important, and anything else can be sorted later.

 Wimlands 16 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

Technical advance, fashion and marketing drive regular changes in cycling. I’m struggling to upgrade the brakes on my specialised to hydraulic discs for instance.

 But essentially getting the right size frame (with all the bottle, pannier and mudguard mounts) is pretty important.

 Jim Lancs 16 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

> Would I be correct that, fit, fit and fit are important, and anything else can be sorted later.

It's true that fit is important as that's a major contributor to your comfort.

'Sorting later' can be a very expensive. Better to buy right first time. Bike bits from any source are still expensive these days.

 Dave Cundy 16 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

Bike fit...you've got it.  I've had two in ten years.  Once from a guy doing iron-man, once from BW Cycling.  About £100 a time.  Never really had any aches and pains since then,  so worth every penny.  Most of my other cycling partners get it 'about right' themselves but whinge now and again.

Loads of bikes will be fine for you, so long as you can adjust them enough.  First time I needed a higher/shorter handlebar, so bought a new stem.  Last time, I ended up with another handlebar with more compact drops.

Do a bit of reading to suss out the basics of bike fit.  I reckon there's plenty of shop salesmen who only half understand bike fit.  If you understand it enough to get the right sized frame, a professional bike fitter can adjust it to suit.  Get the wrong sized frame and you're up s**t creek :'(

Post edited at 14:26
 Andy Hardy 16 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

A Rohloff hub is basically an 8 speed sturmey-archer mega bucks for additional weight, although fans say less maintenance.

 65 16 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

I've only skimmed the thread and you have a lot of good replies but one bike I haven't seen mentioned is the humble Genesis Croix de Fer. You can get it in 725 or 853 and for the money it is a great deal and versatile, if lacking in glamour, there's a word I never thought I'd use while talking about touring bikes. It straddles the line between a trad 4-panniers bike and modern bikepacking bike. It should be easy to find a dealer where you can take one out for a spin. Spend any money saved on wheels.
Apart from your LBS, Thorn in Somerset and Hewitt in Lancs are knowledgeable and very helpful. Spa know their onions but in my experience were terrible to deal with. 

Post edited at 14:39
 TobyA 16 May 2020
In reply to daftdazza:

Alpkit/Sonder have a steel framed tourer model now. They look pretty, obviously inspired by the classic steel framed tourers of yesteryear, but with modern brakes and gears and so on. 

 TobyA 16 May 2020
In reply to Dave Cundy:

I got a stingray for my last bike, I'm yet to actually see how well it fits on my newer bike because when I have bike packed on my newer bike I used a different combination of bags, but anyway how did you solve the conundrum of where to put the water bottles when you have your friend bag in?

I'm just back from my first long ride since the lockdown was eased. A bit over 100 km mainly on on gravel paths and bridleways through Derbyshire Yorkshire Nottinghamshire and back into Derbyshire. Took too much stuff with me because I wanted to make sure I would be self-sufficient, and the weather was ok. Had a good packed lunch though! 🙂


 JimHolmes69 16 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

I live in Darwen and have cycled with my son all over Europe. We camp and have bought all our bikes from Ewood bikes in Blackburn. Ian has built all our bikes he and the shop is top class and he will built a bomb proof bespoke touring bike for whaT ever your budget. My first bike did 10000 miles and cost 500 quid. But what ever your budget is they will give you a bike that is super reliable with out any hard sell.

 I hope this helps

Jim

Post edited at 19:08
 DaveHK 16 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

Not sure a Rohlhoff hub is the best idea at your budget.

However, here's a story about them.

We met a Finnish lad touring in Slovenia. He was riding to Budapest for a wedding.

He told us that the previous year he thought his Rohlhoff hub was making some funny noises so he rode from Finland to the Rohlhoff factory in Germany.

Rolled up at the front door and asked to speak to the gaffer who duly came out and asked what the trouble was. Lad told him and he said no worries, we'll strip it down and check it for you but you'll need to leave it overnight. The boss man asked the lad where he was staying, he'd planned to camp but couldn't get to a site without his bike so the Rohlhoff boss man told him he could kip on the sofa in reception.

Lad got his wheel back the next day and ride home to Finland.

 didntcomelast 16 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

I’ve always been drawn to a touring bike set up. Last year on gumtree I found a guy selling a Raleigh Sojourn touring bike, with a Reynolds frame, brooks saddle and Tubus racks. £275. It’s a bit of a heavyweight but so comfortable and relaxed to ride. I have been tempted by Sonders titanium framed Camino for a lighter weight bike but I suspect from a value for money point of view, I’m better sticking with the Raleigh. 

 tonyaitch 16 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

Try

ribblecycles.co.uk

 tonyaitch 16 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

Another vote for Ewood bikes

Or try

ribblecycles.co.uk

J1234 16 May 2020
In reply to tonyaitch:

I think I rode past Ewood bikes the other week when I was doing the Weavers Wheel.

 JimHolmes69 16 May 2020
In reply to J1234:

You will need to go in. The website isn’t the best. Don’t be put off by the youth with long hair!

 Dave Cundy 16 May 2020
In reply to TobyA:

I put my waterbottle in an Apidura 'food pouch' attached to the handlebar and the front of the frame.  Works really well, much easier than reaching down to the down tube.


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