UKH

I want to change the cassette on my road bike to something with a bigger range, as I feel rather 'under-geared' on the hills around here (Peak from Sheffield). I can get up them but have to get out of the saddle quite a lot. For example Winnats Pass...but even normal hills like the one past Bamford Edge or The Dale up past Stanage, Curbar Gap etc. Steep and long.

I have this bike: https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/beone-mistral-race-2013/rp-prod90506

It has a 11-25 cassette. What's the biggest range I could get on the back while remaining compatible with the rest of the drive train? Specifically the rear derailleur. I don't want to have to change everything, or mess up the smooth shifting.

Also, how much difference would going to 28, 30, 34 teeth make? 

I was thinking about this one: https://www.evanscycles.com/shimano-ultegra-6700-10-speed-cassette-00120193 in 12-30T. 

I love riding bikes but am not so much into the technical gear side of things, so any advice will be gratefully received. 

Cheers, Chris.

Max cassette size is determined by the rear derailleur. Specs for the bike say rd-6700-g, which best I can tell from a quick Google will take up to 28t.

If you want to go larger you'd have to fit a different derailleur. 

Going to 28t will help, but whether it's enough to get up steep passes is entirely down to your legs... 

I can't see the spec of the bike you have but, If you can find the part number of the rear derailleur (often stamped on the inside link of the cage) then you can look on the manufacturer website and they should have info about the largest cassette you can run with it. If it's a short cage derailiure then you may be limited to smaller cassettes. I'd you are changing the cassette considerably then you may need a new chain to add a few links. Depends on how tight they cut the current one. If it's just an increase to a 28 then you can probably get away with it.

I like in Belper and it’s a town in a hole like Sheffield in that the hills surround it, rides outs into the peak are tough. I’m struggling with a 32t on the back and i’m shortly going to put a 40t on the back. Got to think on my knees! 

You’ll need to research it a bit (youtube) but the shopping list consists of a 40t shinmao deore 40t MTB cassette, a new chain and a ‘road-link’ rear mech extender 

THanks for the reply.

The spec should be in the bike link, but it looks like 28T will be the most without changing the derailleur. I would put a new chain on anyway while changing the cassette i think. 

Interesting - I have a BeOne Mistral Comp from maybe a year or two earlier than yours - bought on a great sale from Chain Reaction whilst I still lived in Finland. Mine was I think the last year when they came with a triple at the front - I think Shimano has stopped doing a triple crankset version of 105 now. But maybe because of that my bike might be slightly lower geared than yours. I have ridden it up the Dale a few times, although that's bloomin' hard work whatever bike you're on! 

When I first moved to Sheffield I used my cyclocross bike mainly for getting to work. I rapidly decided it was under geared for Sheffield hills - going up Meersbrook Park towards my old house in particular! I can't remember all the cog sizes now of the top of my head, but on that Sora equipped bike I needed to get a longer cage back mech in order to change cassettes to a lower geared one. Fortunately with Sora and a bit of shopping around, this wasn't actually very expensive. With 105 it will cost you a bit more. You will probably need to get a new chain too, your old one is both likely to be worn into your current cassette and not long enough for long cage mech and bigger big cog on a new cassette.

Changing a cassette and rear mech isn't actually particularly complicated - there are lots of good videos on Youtube - GCN and Park Tools being great starting points to guide you through, and despite the frustrations its really nice when you manage to get everything working well! Do you have the relevant tools? You'll need a chain whip and cassette socket to get your old cassette off for example.

Thanks. Looks like potentially a lot of expense for three extra teeth.... Or a LOT more expense (inc. new derailleur) to go bigger still. I'll have to think about it. 

If you can do Winnats on a 25 then you are doing all right ! it take's every tooth of a 32 ring to get me up it 

I have in the past replaced my usual 11-27 road cassette with an 11-32 MTB cassette for an event in the mountains. I didn't change the short cage rear mech, just fiddled with the B screw a bit.

It ran fine for the event, but I probably wouldn't advise running it as a permanent solution without changing the rear mech to match, but might be ok until you can afford the mech.

Note that a wider range cassette will have bigger jumps between gears, which can be annoying.

28 will make a big difference over a 25. If you've never replaced the cassette on a 6-7 year old bike it's probably due one anyway. 30 would be nice, but given you've got a 34 ring on the front would feel very "spinny", and a 32T cassette would be horrid to use.  

I got mine in a Chain Reaction sale too! And one for my wife (BeOne Jade Race....). Hers has 12-30 on the back AND a triple chainset, so she's pretty chilled (albeit slower) going up the steep hills, while I'm out of the saddle, red in the face and swearing

I think perhaps if I do this I'll just have to do it properly and suck up the expense. I love riding around here (have been doing more since the #climbingban ) and love these hills, I'd just like to be able to tackle them mostly seated.  I think my bike was geared for its country of manufacture (Netherlands).

Ta. Not very quickly mind, but I have stupid-man-pride about not putting a foot down

You need to know what size rear cage you have on and go from there, i think the G is a medium, have a read here:

https://www.mantel.com/blog/en/derailleur-capacity-maximum-techcenter

Interesting. Really?

Agreed.

30 Teeth and 'spinny' is probably what I'm after

Few years back I had a Felt F5 (2012 I think) which came with a 25t max sprocket. I don’t know what variant of derailleur it had (Shimano 105 of some sort) but it took a 30t without any bother. Made a very worthwhile difference for my old legs & lungs.

Chain reaction might be able to tell you what size it’s able for.

Noted. I guess you can't have it all... 

Brilliant. Thanks.

You could get a dropout extender to turn your derailleur into a long cage and go up to 40 tooth.

Justgone to a 1x system as like you in the peak you are going up hill or down and found have 22 gears pointless, it's a far more enjoyable and far quieter system.

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/roadlink

This is useful for extending the range of short cage mechs on lower geared cassettes. I've had success with a ss mech and 34t cassette.

Other factors to consider as others have mentioned i.e. chain length but my experience is that you can usually go a little beyond manufacturers recommendations. 

28 should be fine with a 34 on the front, as others have said a 30 would feel like no resistance except on 20%+ gradients.

Hi Chris

As others have said, find out from the Shimano website/actual component what max sprocket you can run with a standard RM. My set up is Campag and I run 12-29t on a std cage 

DO NOT exceed the maximum without changing the rear mech. Otherwise, you will end up with the latter through your rear wheel sooner or later. 

You can also change your chainset. I run a semi-compact 52/36 set up but you can pick up a SH Ultegra 50/34 compact for under fifty quid on ebay.

I've just been out to do my morning constitutional - I was going to go further but my long standing war attrition with a puncture in one of my lightweight tubeless tyres isn't going well, and whilst riding down from Owler Bar towards Birchens/Gardoms it started leaking sealant again. It seems to stop leaking as the pressure goes down, but after stopping to repump it a bit twice, I eventually gave up and put my emergency tube back in and went home directly! Planet X had just delivered a parcel when I got home including two new tyres (which are rather heavy compared to the current ones but look a lot tougher). I seem to have spend much of the lockdown doing work on my bikes and then all the family's bikes - and it doesn't look like is finished yet!

If after you sort all your gears out, you want a new challenge, go tubeless. Brilliant whilst it works and whole new world of faffy hassles and annoyance when it doesn't!

I'm struggling to see what you're on about here.

Why would 34 on the front and 32 on the back be horrid?

If the hill gets steep enough or you're tired enough or you're carrying enough such that you want a 34x32 gear, then it'll feel good. And if the hill is not steep enough to warrant that gear, just stay in a harder one. 

Sure, maybe the OP won't use the 34x32 gear very much. Very much depends upon the type of rider and the type of terrain. But it would only be 'horrid' if the OP found themselves stuck in that gear on terrain that's not hard enough to warrant it.

Thanks for the tip (!) but I like to avoid faffing with bikes as much as possible. I just like riding them. Spending hours in the garage trying to adjust things to be 'just right' is not on my agenda. As a general rule I don't like to do anything I couldn't pay someone else to do better  Whether it's painting, gardening or fitting a new cassette.

I ride in the Peak as well. I have 34-28 and it's fine for me -  but I still have to get out of the saddle for a short section of Winnats. I tend to do short rides of up to 60k but if I was riding longer routes regularly I think I might want a 30. 30/32 seems to be the new 28 in my cycling club.

Ta. I can get a decent 11-28 (105) for 50 quid by the looks of it, plus a chain, it's not loads of money. I guess I'm just thinking if if might want 30T in future I may as well do it now...

Anyway, thanks everyone. Much useful info and advice. And not COVID related.

Yup. I run a 52/36 on the front of my fun bike, and the difference between using the 25 and the 28 on the back is the difference between getting up something or not. Just my opinion of course and I'm sure other will have different ones!

Sorry, but can't agree. Shimano specs are very conservative and many people run larger cassettes than S recommend. I ran an 11-32 with a medium derailleur (specced for 28 max) for ages with no problem.

I would suggest to the OP to have a read of various articles to this effect in the cycling media.

I think you have hit the nail on the head here, Winnats pass is the only occasion I have had to resort to the dinner plate but I was very grateful that I had it ! There will be other steep punchy climbs that may require it, so it's good to have in your arsenal. Plenty of other gears for the rest of the terrain !

Because there is about zero resistance unless you're cycling up a cliff. You just spin, spin and spin your legs some more without actually moving very far at all. Some people like that, I personally do not. 

The OP can get up Winnnat's on a 34-25. Unless they've got plans to go and hunt some very specific hills out, they are very, very unlikely to find one they need a 34-32 to get up. 

If you use it rarely, then think about why you have it - far nice to have smaller steps between the gears you actually use 99% of the time rather than have the option for 1% of the time. Again, just my opinion - but I'd rather fine-tune the majority of my effort rather than having a bail-out I rarely need to use. 

I, too, live near Belper and have spent a lot of time recently trying to work out the flattest routes around since essentially having had the winter off this road biking lark! Even with 34/29 I've had to rest awhile on some of these darned hills. 

I ride around the Peak District on my compact 50/34 and 11/28 cassette which is fine for me and much better than the 25 max cassette I used to have, Having said that I wouldn’t go out of my way to cycle up Winatts Pass. I have a medium cage rear mech so have the option to go up to 32, however I prefer the closer ratios that a 11/28 gives me to use the ideal ratio for a particular gradient, also I don’t have a very high cadence so would be less efficient spinning in too low a gear. I would definitely go to the 11/28 cassette which should be a great improvement. If you decide later to change the rear mech to use a wider cassette, you will always have the option to change back if and when it suits you

See mine and Marek's answers.

The link given in the OP says he's already on 50/34!

It looks like the OP has a short cage derailleur with a max capacity of 28. Your medium derailleur will have a capacity of 32 or more

Changing the rear cassette changes its suitability from one style of riding to another.

An 11-26 cassette will be good for road racing on the flat but not going up steep hills.  A 14-32 is great for hills but you'll not be able to pedal downhill faster than 35 mph.

My riding is biased towards touring (with 5-10 kg of kit) with a few 15% hills.  So i use a bastardised 13-30 Miche cassette (which has become 14-32).

So what is more important to YOUR riding?  Steep hills or blasting downhill?

I've no experience of Shimano, so will take your word for it. 30t Campag just rips a short-cage RM straight off ... as I found out early on one Fred Whitton!

In the case of the OP, perhaps he should leave the Winnats, the Dale and Curbar Gap alone until he gets a bit stronger! Its not like he's lacking cracking, easier hills locally.

He's already getting up Winnats with a 25t, I don't think he's weak. 

Thanks. I'm not after advice on how to ride a bike or get up hills. I can get up all of those hills, I'd just like to do it in a comfier gearing than the 34-25 max that it came with

In reply to Dave Cundy:

My style of riding, if it can be called that, is riding out into the Peak from Millhouses, taking in plenty of views and uphill in a short amount of time. For example, out past Surprise View and back past Stanage (The Dale) is my shortest, basic, regular ride.

In due course maybe I'll have a go at a Fred Whitton or something, but there are plenty of steep hills around here to keep me going. Not touring, bike-packing or anything like that. 

Yes, it was pretty clear. Splash out and get a medium cage rear mech, an 11-32 cassette and a new chain and you'll be sorted for anything. 

It looks like your bike is 10 speed? This may limit your options to 11-28 or 12-30. In which case it wouldn’t seem worthwhile investing in a new rear mech just to increase the cassette from 28 to 30

That seems to be what it boils down to in terms of what's available/compatible: I can change to a 28T for the cost of a new cassette and chain; or change to 12-30 as above plus new medium/long cage derailleur.  

This will sound like a silly question, but if you have an older bike (2013) like mine that's 10 speed, can you put a modern 11 speed cassette on it (changing the derailleur obviously) or would that most likely need a new rear wheel on top of everything else? 

[edit, I guess also a new shifter/brake unit etc, so, no, sod that and forget I asked]

You could just stay with 10 speed, eg https://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-tiagra-hg500-10-speed-cassette/

You would need new levers and derailleurs, it would be more cost effective to get the whole groupset which also includes brakes and the other bits. The cost may be around £800 having said that the latest Ultegra 11 speed R800 is superb. It would need some tools and aptitude to install. I replaced my Ultegra 10 speed with R800 on a very nice carbon frame with new wheels, very happy with the result. It’s hard to know if your wheel Would be compatible with 11 speed, more modern wheels need more space to accommodate 11 cogs and have an optional spacer when used with 10 cogs. 

I think you only have 2 options, either fit a 11-28 cassette on your existing bike or buy a new carbon bike with Ultegra R800. This will cost around £2000 to £2500 but you will love it seeing as how much you seem to enjoy your cycling. Maybe just get the new cassette now and think about the new bike

Ha! I don't need much convincing to buy a new bike, but I think even I will struggle to explain to my wife that I need a new£2k+ carbon ride to get a few extra teeth on my cassette

Thanks though.

Mate, all you need is a £10 road link to lower your rear mech then fit any cassette you like, be it 32 or anything up to 40. prob a new chain too but in typical UKC fashion, what turns out to be a fairly simple mechanical question gets answered in the least cost effective ways possible!

Well I recommend just getting a new cassette. 28 will be ample for anyone riding Winnats on. 25. The new bike solution was an answer to the specific question of how to upgrade to 11 speed, but you would have known that if you had read the thread

In typical UKC fashion someone didn't read all the thread  

(I put a link up top to something similar). 

yea me too, 3 posts in.....

You got me 👍 - well played. (Though I of course could be bothered to put a link in - if you'll excuse the pun). 

Edit: think I got mine from SJS which is an absolute treasure trove of weird stuff to make the incompatible work. 

Got mine off fleabay, just a random seller with access to a cnc machine i guess