Removing pedals

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 G. Tiger, Esq. 05 Mar 2020

You'd think this would be easy, but I've got one of them seized and it won't budge. I've been a good boy and looked up various options on the Internet, and even bought some more penetrating oil to try and shift it but no luck.

It's non drive side so I'm unscrewing it clockwise,, I've drenched it in wd 40, rc90 and the like, I've wellied it with a mallet. I've just replaced the bottom bracket so don't want to whack it too much. 

Spoke to the lbs who dash said "blow torch it!", so I've done the next best thing and used a paint stripper heat fun to try and get some differential expansion on the go.

I've used an impact driver on the Allen key side, but only managed to ruin the hex head bits. 

Other than getting a metre long pedal spanner, what would you recommend?

Ta

GTE

 JLS 05 Mar 2020
In reply to G. Tiger, Esq.:

Take the crank off and put it in a vice. I expect a lot of force will be lost compressing the tyres...

 balmybaldwin 05 Mar 2020
In reply to G. Tiger, Esq.:

Are you certain you are going the right way? I know I've been confused on many an occasion despite being aware of the CW/CCW threads!

Get a normal sized pedal spanner and a meter long pipe and slide it over the handle?

 LastBoyScout 05 Mar 2020
In reply to G. Tiger, Esq.:

Both good suggestions above.

The alternative to heat is cold - you could try taking the crank off and putting it in the freezer to see if a bit of contraction frees it up if expansion didn't.

I assume you've tried putting crank at 6 o'clock, spanner on at 3 o-clock and standing/bouncing (carefully) on the end of the spanner?

 freeflyer 06 Mar 2020
In reply to G. Tiger, Esq.:

>> Are you certain you are going the right way? 

This.

I've broken a spanner trying to get one off the wrong way using techniques described here. Embarrassing. At least give it a go the other way.

>> I've wellied it with a mallet

Takes me right back to when I were a nipper getting cotter pins out with Dad's 4lb hammer, getting amused banter from him, and then getting a grilling from the bike shop staff when I needed new ball bearings.

ff

1
 kevin stephens 06 Mar 2020
In reply to balmybaldwin:

> Get a normal sized pedal spanner and a meter long pipe and slide it over the handle?

I find this works best for me 

 Schmiken 06 Mar 2020
In reply to G. Tiger, Esq.:

Very carefully put the spanner on, wedge it to n place, double and triple check the direction and then stand on the pedal and the spanner and bounce up and down.

A short, sharp shock will normally be enough to get it loose.

 abr1966 06 Mar 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

> I find this works best for me 

+1

OP....last time I was in your position I did it with a scaffold tube over the spanner after a day multiple sprays of wd40.

 Hooo 06 Mar 2020
In reply to G. Tiger, Esq.:

If you don't have a blowtorch, take the crank off and put it in the oven as high as it will go.

 Fruitbat 06 Mar 2020
In reply to G. Tiger, Esq.:

Clockwise is the correct direction to unscrew the nds pedal when looking at the bike from the nds.

Put the bike on the ground i.e. as if you were going to ride it.

Position the nds crank to point towards the headtube, so about in the 10 or 11 o'clock.

Put the spanner on the pedal so that the spanner shaft lies just above, but close to, the crank. This should enable you to hold both the spanner and crank in one hand and squeeze them together. This crank and spanner position is quite good as the crank is held stationary by the chain/freewheel (I'm assuming the chain is on...)

Try and postion yourself behind the bike whilst doing this as it's easier to control the pressure and keep the spanner in line.

It may help to have someone sitting on the bike whilst you're doing this - you could try sitting on it yourself but it can be awkward. 

Please post to let us know how you get on.

Post edited at 08:42
In reply to G. Tiger, Esq.:

If you are old enough to have one knocking around, use a toe strap to attach the opposite crank to the chain stay. 

Copper grease when you replace the pedal

 Fruitbat 06 Mar 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

Good tips.

It also effective to just hold the ds crank against the chainstay - you'll have a better purchase and more advantage if the ds pedal is removed so you can hold the end of the crank and be clear of the chainwheel.

Any grease on the thread will do and only a bit is needed. The main thing when refitting pedals is to fit them hand-tight and then just give them a slight nip of the spanner/hex key. There is nothing to be gained by mashing them on as tightly as possible, they are designed to stay on whilst pedalling, hence the lh thread on the nds.

Post edited at 08:54
 Jon Greengrass 06 Mar 2020
In reply to LastBoyScout:

> The alternative to heat is cold - you could try taking the crank off and putting it in the freezer to see if a bit of contraction frees it up if expansion didn't.

the coefficient of thermal expansion for aluminium alloy is greater than that for steel, the only thing cooling it down will do is make the fit tighter.

 nniff 06 Mar 2020
In reply to G. Tiger, Esq.:

I know you've done the mallet thing, but try again.  Chain on the big ring and smallest sprocket.  Get a strong spanner and make sure it can't wobble -  pack it out with cardboard, parcel/gaffer tape etc.  Position the crank somewhere between 9:30 and 11:30 so that the spanner is horizontal or just above horizontal and pointing to the back of the bike.  Make sure the bike is stable and then just ff hit it with a solid wooden mallet.  If it still doesn't go, try the same again but put a block of wood or a car jack under the pedal and really ffffff hit it.   Again, use gaffer tape to keep everything aligned for your act of violence.  Watch your knuckles on the car jack, breeze block / whatever.

Don't worry about your BB it'll be fine - it has to take you jumping around on it all the time.

When you put it back together, put copper slip on the axles (and on your cleat bolts).

 eeoneiwish 06 Mar 2020
In reply to G. Tiger, Esq.:

Agree with the pipe suggestion, it has always worked for me and find it a lot more effective than the bashing it with a mallet method. I couldn't get hold of scaffolding tube so I bought a length of tubing used to support a satellite dish. If you do have a decent vice, fixed solidly to a workbench and can get the crank off the bike, it makes it a lot easier as it keeps the crank from moving around whilst you are giving it some welly.

Good luck, hope you get it sorted.

 LastBoyScout 06 Mar 2020
In reply to Jon Greengrass:

> the coefficient of thermal expansion for aluminium alloy is greater than that for steel, the only thing cooling it down will do is make the fit tighter.

But the crank shaft expanding in heat will also make the pedal hole smaller and therefore grip the pedal axle more tightly, especially as the axle expands. Therefore, cooling it down should make it grip LESS tightly.

4
 jpd 06 Mar 2020
In reply to LastBoyScout:

> But the crank shaft expanding in heat will also make the pedal hole smaller

No it won't. Assuming the entire crank is heated evenly, all linear dimensions (including the diameter of the pedal hole) will increase in direct proportion to the coefficient of expansion. In effect you're scaling up the the entire crank.  

 Hat Dude 06 Mar 2020
In reply to G. Tiger, Esq.:

Sometimes a lot of smaller sharp taps can work better than a mighty whack, this is basically how an impact driver works.

Perhaps if you used the right sized Allen Key, cut so it's just a straight bar and with the crank in a vice, gave the end of the key loads and loads of small taps.

 wilkesley 06 Mar 2020
In reply to Schmiken:

This technique has worked for me on several occasions. Make sure you put some grease on the pedal when you fit the new one.

gezebo 06 Mar 2020
In reply to G. Tiger, Esq.:

A new bike from the lbs who gave you a good tip on getting it off? Or maybe pay them to do it for you, it’s probably cheaper than everything you’ve bought/tried so far 😂

On a serious note I had one so seized that I ended up cutting a slot in the crank arm and salvaging the pedal. The amount of corrosion on all the mating surfaces was interesting to see. 

 gazhbo 07 Mar 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

> I find this works best for me 

It’s also what they tend to do in bike shops with stubborn ones.

In reply to gazhbo:

So an update for those interested in my tedious fettlings!

Took off the crank, went to the shed, put it in the vice, got a two metre long bit of steel pipe, and gave it a good wellying. I may have moved the workbench a lot, and possibly the wall of the shed to which it is bolted, but crucially, not the pedal. The pedal spanner itself is now no longer in the best of shape, so needs a visit of its own to the vice for realigning.

My chunkier pedal spanner is a bit too "multi-tool" so has some spannery thing on the other end making it too big for my pipe lever/extension

Next stop bike shop (a different LBS). They whipped out the spanner of justice and between that and the vice had no luck. They offered to weld an old spanner to it for extra oomph. So I'm just going to keep it as it is at the moment, and cross that bridge when I need to service/replace the pedals.

I'd like your thoughts on the following: They told me that the "thermal shock" of the welding is enough to release the corrosion/cold welding etc. that is making it stick. BUT that I should heat the steel pedal axle rather than the aluminium. Surely heating the crank would be better than the axle? And less likely to cook the grease (which i'd like to avoid).

GTE

 wilkie14c 12 Mar 2020
In reply to G. Tiger, Esq.:

As it’s the non drive side, at this stage i’d just try and find a crank arm on ebay and just replace it, the old crank arm can be cut easily enough with a hacksaw the relieve the pressure around the pedal threads 

what make & model is it?

Post edited at 10:15
 JLS 12 Mar 2020
In reply to G. Tiger, Esq.:

>"I may have moved the workbench a lot, and possibly the wall of the shed to which it is bolted, but crucially, not the pedal."

That's a shame. I think you've done all you can. Seems like further aggressive treatment would be pointless. I think we’ve reached the palliative care stage...

 Rip van Winkle 12 Mar 2020
In reply to G. Tiger, Esq.:

Hey, sorry if this is Grandma/eggs stuff, but my pedals screw/unscrew using a hex key from the inside of the cranks rather than the outside. First time around this is confusing because the correct LH thread direction as seen from outside becomes RH when seen from the inside, and vice versa. But you know that, I'm sure, if that applies to you.

In reply to G. Tiger, Esq.:

If you need to regrease the bearings in the fixed pedal, drill a 2mm hole in the casing along the axle centre. Inject grease using a grease gun then plug the hole with  a self tapper or a bit of tape. 

This job is easy if the pedal has a plastic dust cap, less easy if not. 

In reply to wilkie14c:

Fsa omega (don't judge me, it came with the bike!).

It might spur me on to buy a power meter on that crank 

@rip well aware of the orientation thanks, but only after much reading rereading and had scratching!

@presley good tip! I imagined trying to dismantle it in situ 

Thanks all

GTE

 wilkie14c 13 Mar 2020
In reply to G. Tiger, Esq.:

had a quick look for one, only on ebay as a pair, 37 quid, perhaps if thinking of upgrading this is the time.

Steel and ali do tend to fuse together quite often, car wheels often take some welly to get the off


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