UKH

This touring is looking very appealing and often people seem to follow valleys, but into every journey must come a hill, even big ones like the Alps.
I have read many inspirational tales of cycling zillions of miles, but only this lady mentions pushing https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=3Ht&page_id=121944&v=FS...

Do many get off and push?
TBH my plan for an Alpine pass was the Post Bus.

In reply to J1234:

Alpine hills tend to be long but (relatively) gentle, once in a low gear its just a matter of keeping going. Far worse are some of the short but much steeper hills found in the UK. I still remember cycling on a laden bike (part of a 2 week cycle camping trip) along part of the Welsh coastline in north Pembrokeshire which seemed to be a succession of very steep climbs & descents, with the odd flat bit.

In reply to Doug:

I know what you mean, we cycled from Barrow in Furness to Glasson Dock, and we had a few sharp hills at the back of Ulverston, which went OK, but on the way into Cartmel was a brute, which apparently some people come from miles around to cycle up, we pushed.

Did you push?

In reply to J1234:

I just about kept cycling, my girlfriend didn't (but I think I had a lower lowest gear )

In reply to J1234:

Lots of the hills in Cornwall are short steep thing, I pushed up a lot of them when I was touring this summer.

In reply to J1234:

And has been used for the British Hill Climb Championships!

Pushing is certainly a viable option on short, sharp hills like ours in the UK. You might find something similar in Brittany or parts of Germany, but on the long continental 'mega climbs', they have usually been graded to allow traditional horse and carts to do the same ascent throughout history. The usual gradient is only about 1:12 or sometimes 1:10 but rarely anything more. Sometimes the road layout has been altered in recent years to avoid unstable ground, etc, and then the new road can be steeper, but this is unusual. 

The down side to pushing on the long big mountain passes is that they are long. Pushing a bike is a terrible 'ergonomic' position for your shoulders and spine and after the many hours it would take to push 20 miles or so, it just can't do you any good. Far better to make sure your gears are low enough (sub 20 inches), and sit there twiddling away either in a zen like trance or catching up with Corrie on the iPlayer.

In reply to J1234:

My only experience of touring was in the UK, on the road, going between youth hostels and there was no need to push. The heavily laden bike on the blog I reckon I'd be pushing it loads. 

In reply to J1234:

There is nothing wrong with pushing a fully laden bike up steep hills. It can give your legs a change of muscle use and effectively a rest. 

It's unlikely you will need to push for long as most 'steep' bits are relatively short. 

There is, as usual, some macho bs around this but if you are cycling for fun, make it as pain-free as possible.

In reply to J1234:

Whatever you do, don't book a touring bike holiday in Madeira!

(smiley face)

In reply to Jim Lancs:

That makes sense, the lady in the link in the OP pushed for 8 hours over the Simplon pass I think it was, anyway it was 8 hours. I could not see myself watching Postbusses driving past with perfectly good bike racks on the back, and pushing a bike for 8 hours. Its like not standing on perfectly good bolts or pulling on good gear, you have to know when to hold em and know when to fold em.

In reply to J1234:

i haven’t watched it but if you’re ending up pushing your bike for 8 hours then you’ve got something terribly wrong  

6 P’s and all that 

In reply to ChrisJD:

We walked Maderia Xmas 2019, and my Strava of our walk down from the highest point back down to the bus is something to behold. Great walking but as you say, not the place for a wuss cycle tourer like me.

In reply to Kimono:

6 P's ? 

In reply to J1234:

I've never pushed up a pass on a road pass in the alps. Most especially in the French alps are pretty steady and as long as you have a low enough gear aren't a problem. Off road I've done some pretty long hikes (including downhill!)

In reply to Doug:

living at the top Nidderdale is good training - long 1 in 4 which ever way you go.....

In reply to J1234:

We did a lot of cycle camping this summer. If I cycle out of my south London home I can get into Surrey/Sussex/Kent without pushing, but I haven't ever managed to get home over the steeper side of the North Downs yet without pushing, despite having a triple with a granny gear. What consoles me is that I've seen many unladen cyclists pushing up that side too.

I don't really like it especially as cycling shoes don't have as much grip on steep surfaces, but needs must. I do not like the idea of pushing for eight hours!

In reply to J1234:

Me and a mate did John O’Groats to LansdEnd on very old iron mountain bikes. Fully laden with panniers and all our stuff we’d need for 14 days.

We were determined not to get off and push. I think the longer hills in the highlands were harder than the short steeper ones in Cornwall but we managed it without getting off! 
We were doing it to raise money for charity so that added to the sense of failure if we pushed.

In reply to ChrisJD:

Or other Portugese Atlantic islands.  Flores would be interesting! Still fancy it with an MTB though. Madeira would be the Daddy, definitely.

Worst push (off road) when touring that I have had was the climb into Glen Affric from Glen Lichd. 

In reply to Fat Bumbly2:

I've been to Madeira twice: once walking/exploring about 14 years ago and more recently MTBing.

The enduro style MTB trails are mind-blowing; world class riding.

In reply to J1234:

It depends if you've got the right gears, I cycled up onto Exmoor fully loaded with a chariot trailer and my 6 month old daughter but in Oz on the 4wd road round Cape Tribulation (no children) we both had to push as some of the hills were so steep and worse, had to push, hold down the other side for the same reason along with lose dusty surfaces.

I think my gears were 44/32/22 and maybe an 11 or 12 - 34 on the back.  I always think of it as having lorry gears!

Cheers

Toby

In reply to Jim Lancs:

Surely you mean Eastenders if its iPlayer? And I suspect that you won't be able to use iPlayer on alpine passes anymore thanks to Brexit!

In reply to TobyA:

Was it not always a problem - not sure if we can pin that one on the Self Harm Cult.  VPN?

In reply to TobyA:

I'll take your word for it! 

I'm more of a zen-like trance man myself. The identical rhythmic repetitions together with forcing yourself not to check your watch or think about 'are we nearly there yet' is one of the joys of Alpine touring.

In reply to TobyA:

I don't think you could anyway. Something I am going to be looking into is VPNs, but not sure if having these on a phone will cause issues crossing some border such as China or North Korea.

Something I have thought of on a bike tour is going sans smart phone, but they are just so damn useful, and the weight they can save, GPS, reading material, camera, as the king of Siam would say etcetera etcetera, is considerable.

In reply to J1234:

Yeah, I've not done any long tours but I don't see how now much logical alternative to having one - at least in Europe where you have good signal much of the time and deals to use it like you were in your home country. I considered quite seriously getting a wheelset I saw on sale last summer with a dynamo front hub in order to be able to recharge my phone while bikepacking, and ready if I do get the chance to ride across Europe at some point!

In reply to J1234:

plus chargers, adaptors, leads, powerbanks, cost of Schmidt dynahub and charger, solar panels  . . . 

But you're right, a proper GPS with mapping does save on a pile of paper maps we used to carry. But carry a reasonably large scale paper map so you can see where you are in the bigger scheme of things which I find impossible on a tiny screen. 

In reply to Jim Lancs:

Yes its an issue with modern tech, you can often get somewhere, but you never know actually where you are.

I once had to go to a house in Darwen or somewhere anyway, put the wrong post code, BB1 instead of BB8 or whatever and I just followed the sat nav like a pillock, I knew I was going wrong but just gave myself to the technology.

I remember being in my van in the past scouring the A to Z by torchlight and a magnifier, looking for addresses.

In reply to J1234:

proper planning prevents piss poor performance of course

In reply to J1234:

I've done a lot of laden touring in the Pyrenees and Alps including most of the big cols and the only place I've ever got off and pushed was the Yorkshire Dales. Nothing wrong with pushing, but if it was going to be anything more than the odd few hundred metres, I'd get lower gears, a lighter load or find a different route.

In reply to WaterMonkey:

I think you mean steel? I imagine any iron bike would be very heavy and be a challenge.

In reply to J1234:

No shame in pushing, though it initially comes as a shock as to how heavy a fully laden touring rig is to push. It always amazes me when I start pedalling as to how effective the bikes gearing system is.  I have likened it to pushing a 30kg wheelbarrow up a hill compared to riding a well geared bike. 

In reply to mountain.martin:

Well yes. Or a Raleigh Girder as we called it.

In reply to didntcomelast:

I have read on another site that its easier to pedal than push, because of mechanical advantage, like DOH , but I think I need to get my gearing sorted.

But one thing for that lady in the OP, she has had the guts to set off, and I have not yet, so all power to her say I.

In reply to J1234:

I did a 'most Easterly to most Westerly' tour years ago and packed with a 'better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it approach'. A tent with steel poles, steel luggage rack and a steel mountain bike, fitted with a ridiculously low 16.4 inch bottom gear. It was so heavy I could barely lift it off the ground when it was all packed and it felt like it had a hinge in the middle of the frame going round corners.

I didn't have to get off and push at any point but had to stop plenty of times for a breather. Three points I noticed were – 1) If you're twiddling away at little more than walking pace you have no momentum, so a small dip in the tarmac will bring you almost to a stop. 2) If you do stop, getting going again is a nightmare. 3) Gusty side winds while on busy roads are scary af.

In reply to flatlandrich:

Good effort, swas that east of england - west of wales?

What kind of mileage were you able to do a day with that weight?

In reply to mountain.martin:

Thanks! It was the Suffolk coast down to Cornwall. 470 miles and it took 9 days (plus a rest day) so averaged about 50 miles a day but that varied between 35 and 80 miles. Average speeds were between 11 mph (climbing over Exmoor) and 14mph (across the Somerset levels)

One of the best trips I've ever done (actually, one of the best things I've ever done) Fantastic weather and met some great people on the route. Got the train back but still had to ride across London like that between stations.

In reply to J1234:

You need to shoulder it, cyclocross style. 

In reply to flatlandrich:

Nice, great to see the adventures and fun that can be had close to home.

In reply to Kimono:

Sorry I should have got that one, and I tend to live by that, but maybe thats a problem 

because

proper planning can become procrastination and prevent performance.

or

No plan survives first engagement.

A copy of passport details and an emergency credit card, are a plan I will always stick to though

In reply to Hutson:

Depends where you're heading home to - but there are some slightly more cycle friendly options to get back up over the north Downs;

Headley Rd/ Lodgebottom from Mickleham up to Headley or alternatively from Reigate; head over Wray Common and then Rocky Lane/ Markedge Lane back up to Chipstead. They're still uphill but not as bad as some of the other options further East (Pebblehill and Reigate Hill are the two options inbetween the ones I have suggested but both are harder going)