How many miles a day on a Bike? Ride to work.

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J1234 12 Aug 2018

This post is unrelated to my unhappy with Bike thread.

I was queuing in Halfords and the bloke in front was having problems with his bike, some kind of Apollo.
The Halfords chap asked how much the bloke road the bike and he said I think 5 or 6 miles a day to work and back. So as I was trying to be discrete in my nosiness, it could have meant 5 or 6 miles or 10-12.
But anyway the Halfords guy said the Bike was not suitable for that much use.
The customer said that if it was on the Cycle to work scheme, it should be fit to ride to work and back. 

Its a funny one, I bet loads of bikes never in their entire lifespan go more than 50 miles, ever.

But I would think that any bike should be able to manage 25 -50 miles a week for a year or 3. 

Would you expect any bike to be able to manage 25-50 miles a week if bought from a major retailer?

 summo 12 Aug 2018
In reply to J1234:

You'd think a new bike from the high street costing say £300-500 should be able to cope with 50miles or a few hours use every week for a decade, without changing any major components. Anything less and it must fall under trade description of not fit for purpose it was sold for. 

 nniff 12 Aug 2018
In reply to J1234:

For a while maybe, but realistically no.  2,500 is a fairly substantial annual mileage.  It's almost a third of the mileage they offer on those good deals for cars on the TV.

I budgeted on about £1 day for running costs for a bike riding about 140 miles a week (tyres, brakes, punctures, one chain a year, bits and pieces etc).  That's more than a cheap bike costs.   There's a reason why proper bike shops don't sell bikes for £200 - they're more trouble than they're worth.

2
 summo 12 Aug 2018
In reply to J1234:

What price range was the bike?

 Yanis Nayu 12 Aug 2018
In reply to J1234:

Sounds like bollocks to me. 

J1234 12 Aug 2018
In reply to summo:

I am guessing 120 to 150 squid. Maybe something like this, https://www.halfords.com/cycling/bikes/hybrid-bikes/apollo-guru-mens-hybrid...
£124 reduced from £180. 
Now I know thats a £124 worth of bike, however Halfords are claiming its £180 worth, and a consumer could expect it to perform as £180 worth. And if it does not, ask Halfords why not. 
Nowhere in the blurb do they say this is a bit on the cheap side and not to ride too far, in fact they use phrases such as  Light and durable aluminium for easier handling

 summo 12 Aug 2018
In reply to J1234:

> £124 reduced from £180. 

That's a bit cheaper than i thought, you would be struggling in that price range I think to get any build quality or reliable parts and quality control. But that highlights why they should not be selling the bike for that use at all. Reasonable kids bikes that will last long enough to be passed down cost more than that. 

J1234 12 Aug 2018
In reply to summo:

> That's a bit cheaper than i thought, you would be struggling in that price range I think to get any build quality or reliable parts and quality control. 

I agree. I wonder how many Bikes Halfords would sell if they said.
This is rubbish, but cheap.

I suspect not many as most consumers would go to someone who would tell them the lies they want to hear.

 

In reply to J1234:

I don't doubt at all that a Halfords bike for that money would be incapable of even that meagre mileage, espescially when you factor in wet weather and road grit getting intimate with unsealed cheap bearings. Bottom brackets and hub bearings are particularly rubbish on cheap bikes. I was guiding a mountain biking group back in June and one of the lads had a bottom end Specialized with a surprisingly rubbish bb. It was fine at the start but howling like a banshee half way round. I managed to silence it by filling it with water bizarrely!

 Lord_ash2000 13 Aug 2018
In reply to J1234:

You're right that any bike they are selling should be fit for purpose and I'd say riding a few miles to work and back is pretty baseline purpose for even the most basic of bikes.

But there is a degree of '''what do you expect for the money" here £124 for a whole bike is ridiculously cheap. To put it in perspective, you can pay more than that a half decent helmet or even just a seat post . So really you're looking at a toy bike rather than a useful bit of equipment. 

 

1
 JimR 13 Aug 2018
In reply to J1234:

I think any manky bike should be able to cope with that distance for commuting. I've got a crappy 30yo bike I use which I've probably spent £250 on over that period, it does the job fine and its not the end of the world if it gets nicked. For proper road cycling I've got a Cervello R5, gravel tracks a GT105 and a hardtail Trek for mtb. Horses for courses.

 thomasadixon 13 Aug 2018
In reply to J1234:

Pretty sure he's just wrong, or that he meant that you should consider buying something else long term if you don't want to be put off cycling for life.

Used by mum's seriously cheap Apollo for a few months (after my bike got nicked) to commute around 4 miles each way daily.  Wasn't fun but the bike didn't have any problems.  This was a while ago, but I don't imagine that they've got worse since then.

 ianstevens 13 Aug 2018
In reply to summo:

> You'd think a new bike from the high street costing say £300-500 should be able to cope with 50miles or a few hours use every week for a decade, without changing any major components. Anything less and it must fall under trade description of not fit for purpose it was sold for. 

Sounds like bollocks. Chains, cassettes, tyres, brake pads, bearings... I'd expect to replace most of the moving parts of a bike in a decade.

 Mike Stretford 13 Aug 2018
In reply to J1234:

> Its a funny one, I bet loads of bikes never in their entire lifespan go more than 50 miles, ever.

> But I would think that any bike should be able to manage 25 -50 miles a week for a year or 3. 

> Would you expect any bike to be able to manage 25-50 miles a week if bought from a major retailer?

Not for long no, a few months maybe. The first sentence quoted above is the reason why. As you say many people buy a bike and don't use it much, the budget range is aimed at them. I do think there should be a conversation about intended use at the point of sale.

 Tricky Dicky 13 Aug 2018

Back in the day, folk used to ride miles on heavy steel bikes with heavy steel rims (just try stopping in the wet) that, realistically,  were far worse than some of the cheap bikes that you can get these days.

 

 DancingOnRock 13 Aug 2018
In reply to J1234:

Depends how long he’d had the bike. Some people expect things to last forever with no maintenance. Some people don’t know how to maintain their own bike. Adjust gears, brakes, replace pads, chain etc. 

Some parts are prone to wear on all bikes the cheaper the bike, the cheaper the materials and the worse the tolerances. 

 JLS 13 Aug 2018
In reply to Tricky Dicky:

This is the model of bike I started cycling seriously on...

...expect I got at least 20,000 miles out of it.

https://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2F00%2F...

 

 summo 13 Aug 2018
In reply to ianstevens:

> Sounds like bollocks. Chains, cassettes, tyres, brake pads, bearings... I'd expect to replace most of the moving parts of a bike in a decade.

Tyres and pads, yeah. The rest depends on type of use and maintenance. Clean and oil the chain, don't leave it full of grit makes a difference. Same with crank etc.. ride smoothly in the right gear sitting down, verses standing up straining and so on. I wasn't suggesting zero maintenance, you need to look after it still, but on £300-500 bike major parts should last out. Perhaps I've just been lucky. 

Post edited at 16:27
 ianstevens 13 Aug 2018
In reply to summo:

> Tyres and pads, yeah. The rest depends on type of use and maintenance. Clean and oil the chain, don't leave it full of grit makes a difference. Same with crank etc.. ride smoothly in the right gear sitting down, verses standing up straining and so on. I wasn't suggesting zero maintenance, you need to look after it still, but on £300-500 bike major parts should last out. Perhaps I've just been lucky. 

I'd presumed that - 41,000km out of a chain (80km/week *10 years) and a bottom bracket would be outstanding! The frame, wheels and finishing kit should indeed last though, I agree with you there.

 Mike Stretford 13 Aug 2018
In reply to ianstevens:

> I'd presumed that - 41,000km out of a chain (80km/week *10 years) and a bottom bracket would be outstanding! The frame, wheels and finishing kit should indeed last though, I agree with you there.

I'd be very impressed with wheels where the rims and hubs did 41000km...... not impossible but it would be some quality kit not found a sub 500 quid bike.

 JimR 13 Aug 2018
In reply to Mike Stretford:

My 30yo Claude & Butler, has done over 30,000 miles on the same bb, two new chains, one new back wheel (only cos the cassette could'nt be removed as it was originally cross threaded) a few new tyres couple of brake pads and thats it. My Mate's Peugot racer has had even less maintenance over a similar period.  I reckon today's cheapos are better than yesterday's expensive so I'd be surprised if they can't do a similar mileage. Obviously if you want to crank along at 20mph you need a better bike.

 ianstevens 13 Aug 2018
In reply to Mike Stretford:

> I'd be very impressed with wheels where the rims and hubs did 41000km...... not impossible but it would be some quality kit not found a sub 500 quid bike.

Yeah, good point. Depends on hub serviceability, level of cleaning of rims/pads and of course riding conditions. But yeah, would be impressive.

cb294 14 Aug 2018
In reply to Mike Stretford:

A few years ago I had to finally bin my wife's steel framed touring bike after 15ish years and about 100.000 km. Most kilometers were racked up by her daily commute, whether raining or snowing. Still, one rear hub was the only major thing that had to be replaced in all that time (grooves worn down so it started slipping, and spares not available anymore), but even the wheel rims were still original. In the end the bottom bracket died and could not be removed anymore.

The 1990s top end Suntour kit was seriously good, leagues better than contemporary Shimano stuff!

CB

 Mike Stretford 14 Aug 2018
In reply to cb294:

> The 1990s top end Suntour kit was seriously good, leagues better than contemporary Shimano stuff!

Yeah some of the old kit was really good. 

As you say the contemporary branded stuff isn't that great, so getting back to the OP, the unbranded stuff on budget bikes is poor. I've just serviced the front hub on one that can't have done more than 5k. Was sticky but ok after a strip & clean,  poor/cheap seals the reason. Back hub was a write off for the same reason.

UK commuting is tough on a bike, the current budget bikes aren't up to it. That said, for the occasional fair weather short distance rider, they will do the job.

 

In reply to Mike Stretford:

How do you work out that contemporary branded stuff isn't great? It is phenomenally reliable and shifts brilliantly. I do 50+km off-road every week in seriously tough conditions and it always amazes me how smooth everything still works despite the abuse it has received. And I'm running a Shimano LX mech and shifter, not exactly top end. 

 gethin_allen 15 Aug 2018
In reply to Tricky Dicky:

> Back in the day, folk used to ride miles on heavy steel bikes with heavy steel rims (just try stopping in the wet) that, realistically,  were far worse than some of the cheap bikes that you can get these days.

The difference is that if you had a bike "back in the day" you probably looked after it and understood that a bike needs cleaning and maintenance to survive. Whereas now many people buying cheap bikes leave them to rot in the garden and wonder why they seize up and fall apart. People also don't realise that parts wear out and need replacing if the bike is to be reliable.

I'd also say that a heavy cheap bike these days isn't the same as a heavy bike of old which was probably still fairly expensive and heavy due to older materials rather than poor workmanship with cheap materials.

 rj_townsend 15 Aug 2018
In reply to J1234:

The Cycle To Work scheme element of what the chap was saying is utterly irrelevant. The scheme doesn't stipulate or recommend any type/level/quality/brand of bike - it is simply used to pay (or officially rent) whatever bike he himself had selected (badly). 

 Mike Stretford 15 Aug 2018
In reply to blackmountainbiker: I've had similar experience with LX but that isn't their bottom range.... and their bottom range stuff is mostly decent for the price but 'not that great'.

My opinion of modern kit is probably somewhere between your's and cb294's...... take it up with him. I was trying to be agreeable and get back to the OP.

 

Post edited at 11:03
 Mike Stretford 15 Aug 2018
In reply to rj_townsend:

> The Cycle To Work scheme element of what the chap was saying is utterly irrelevant. The scheme doesn't stipulate or recommend any type/level/quality/brand of bike - it is simply used to pay (or officially rent) whatever bike he himself had selected (badly). 

I think it's relevant to discussion. It it would be responsible for Halfords to exclude their very cheap bikes. I think they are fairly unique in that they do very cheap bikes and some pretty good expensive ones, and are mostly a decent bike shop. Other than them I think you have to go to a supermarket or similar non-bike shop to get something that cheap.

 

Post edited at 11:17
cb294 15 Aug 2018
In reply to Mike Stretford:

Don't get me wrong, modern kit is great. Light, responsive shifting, much improved braking power, all good for serious racing. However, it is certainly not as bombproof as quality kit from the 1990s. Since I am not racing anymore I therefore prefer a mid 90s 10 speed Campa Record group for my road bike over the current 11 or 12 speed group sets. Don't even get me started on electric shifting.

More pertinent to the OP, this difference becomes even more pronounced for a daily commuting bike: Of course the thumb shifters on the old Suntour group I was referring to were much less ergonomic than today's equivalents, and it was hard to find the balance between slipping gears and needing too much thumb power, but they were completely indestructible even after the originally black colour of the plastic bits had turned into some weathered grey! Same goes for the hubs, bottom brackets, sprockets (8x is intrinsically more robust than 11x), ....

CB

 Brodes 15 Aug 2018
In reply to J1234:

I cycle 4.5 miles each way to work every day (apart from holidays and weekends!).   So at 225 working days a year that's 2025 miles per year.  Add on another 500 miles for holiday and weekend cycling: let's call it 2,500 per year.  My bikes probably last 4ish years before they are so bad that repair is not economic.  My most recent bike is a Ridgeback (a hybrid, around £400).  In the last 18 months (from new) I have spent nothing on it apart from a £100 service and around £20 on brake blocks and some chain oil.  Brilliant.  Cheap, and easy to park!  My only tip is to buy Schwalbe marathon tyres. The tyres are fairly cheap, and the time saved on punctures and associated hassle is huge.

Post edited at 13:21
In reply to cb294:

> Don't get me wrong, modern kit is great. Light, responsive shifting, much improved braking power, all good for serious racing. However, it is certainly not as bombproof as quality kit from the 1990s. Since I am not racing anymore I therefore prefer a mid 90s 10 speed Campa Record group for my road bike over the current 11 or 12 speed group sets. Don't even get me started on electric shifting.

>

> CB

Electronic shifting is brilliant.

 Mike Stretford 15 Aug 2018
In reply to cb294:

> More pertinent to the OP, this difference becomes even more pronounced for a daily commuting bike: Of course the thumb shifters on the old Suntour group I was referring to were much less ergonomic than today's equivalents, and it was hard to find the balance between slipping gears and needing too much thumb power, but they were completely indestructible even after the originally black colour of the plastic bits had turned into some weathered grey! Same goes for the hubs, bottom brackets, sprockets (8x is intrinsically more robust than 11x), ....

That's very relevant to these cheap bikes the OP is on about. I envisage a bike that would suit most budget customers.... 6 speed (rear derailleur, no front mech), simple shifter, no frills but decent moving parts that will see a short distance commuter through a UK winter. Instead they get them looking like a mountain bike, with far more gears than are needed, crap suspension ect... then fit poor parts were it really matters.

 

cb294 15 Aug 2018
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

I know, but none of the current electric group sets are as reliable as their mechanical equivalents. I would use them for racing, but not otherwise.

CB

 SebCa 15 Aug 2018
In reply to J1234:

Anything is possible...one member of my cycling club managed this, few subtle changes but it was still a Chopper that rode the Tour!

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/chopper-charity-rider-causes...

In reply to cb294:

I've done two 1000km Audaxes this year and over 30,000 miles total over the past few years on Di2. Not a single issue and zero maintenance. In that time I would have had to change cables, tighten cables and re index mechanical many times. Di2 in my experience is far more reliable than any mechanical group set I've ever owned.

cb294 16 Aug 2018
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

Good for you, I had a rather bad experience when trying out a bike with Shimano Di

In reply to cb294:

You could find plenty of people who’ve had bad experiences with mechanical groupsets. It wouldn’t mean all mechanical group sets are unreliable. 

cb294 16 Aug 2018
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

Yes, but for comparable groups my personal experiences were better with top end mechanical versions. I am no Luddite, but I do put high value on tried and tested kit (outside work, where I try to be cutting edge with my imaging setups).

CB

 ClimberEd 16 Aug 2018
In reply to SebCa:

.

> Anything is possible...one member of my cycling club managed this, few subtle changes but it was still a Chopper that rode the Tour!

> https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/chopper-charity-rider-causes...

pffff, who needs a few subtle changes....

youtube.com/watch?v=qNaqRgGOuQQ&

and https://road.cc/content/news/118326-raleigh-chopper-v-mont-ventoux-henley-l...

In reply to cb294:

Electronic group sets are well tried and tested now. 

cb294 16 Aug 2018
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

Could be, the one I tried a couple of years ago must still have had teething problems (at least I assume that was the problem, rather than being complete crap)!

In reply to cb294:

Not 'could be' at all. Every World tour team is on electronic and the winner of the Transcontinental for the past few years has been as well. I'd say they're riders who need reliable equipment. Your one experience is unfortunate but not representative at all.

cb294 16 Aug 2018
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

Definitely last year, and if I recall correctly even this year, several world tour teams (or at least individual riders) switched back to mechanical group sets for Paris Roubaix, indicating that they did not (yet) fully trust the new kit for the most kit murdering race on offer.

Also, while it is true that the TdF riders need the most reliable equipment, their bikes are also cleaned and serviced by professional mechanics on daily basis, while I disassemble and deep clean my bike maybe once a season! I believe this makes it hard to compare.

I agree, though, that electric shifting is the future, and I will also make the switch eventually.

CB

In reply to cb294:

If you rode Paris Roubaix every week your reasoning would make sense but comparing any amatuer rider with a Pro at Paris Roubaix really doesn't.

As for servicing as I said previously I;'ve done over 30,000 miles on Di2 and have never had to do anything other than a bit of lubricant so your servicing reasoning doesn't really stand up either as Di2 is not reliant on perfect cables and indexing.

When you make the switch to Di2 your view will change within a week.

 

cb294 16 Aug 2018
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

No, I am comparing riders that use electronic shifting on normal days with the same riders at a race they know will test the reliability of their kit, in which case at least some still prefer mechanical.

The comparison between me and the pros is independent, in that I prefer the more robust version for a different reason, i.e. because my bikes do not get the same level of attention as theirs.

That said, you may well be right that I would convert to electronic shifting once I tried a reliable group set, I can see the obvious advantages as well! Any experience with SRAM Red etap?

CB

In reply to cb294:

No experience of Etap personally but I know a couple of guys that rate it.

Di2 really needs no attention at all. I have it on 3 bikes and have never had to give any of them anything other than a hose down and a spray of lubricant. If you don't give your bikes as much TLC as others then electronic is a better system than mechanical.

 

cb294 16 Aug 2018
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

Thanks!


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