Have I just stuffed my chain?

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 Bobling 09 Jun 2020

I'm trying to work out why one of my pedals is creaking on my old (OLD!) mountain bike.  I took the chain off, I can't remember why, perhaps in the spirit of adventure.  I did this by just using a chain tool to push on of the pins through.  I've never taken a chain off before.

I now realise that there is a master link which should make this job much easier that I should have used.

I used the chain tool and a pair of tweezers to align the pin I took out and put it back in.  All seems well but have I just created the proverbial weak link?

Also if you want to confirm my suspicion that the pedal creaks because the cartridge in the bottom bracket is worn and needs replacing, as it can't be greased or lubed, then go ahead, but if you have other ideas for fixing a creaking pedal I am all ears.

 im off 09 Jun 2020
In reply to Bobling:

I find chains never like this being done to them and end up snapping. 

The quick links or what ever they're called i need the tool to unlink them.

In reply to Bobling:

If you've re-inserted the pin  correctly it shouldn't create a weak link, well maybe slightly weaker than the other links, but unless you are Mark Cavendish you are unlikely to break it.

Sometimes a messed around with link can be a bit sticky and not rotate freely, worth checking that.

Do you, or a friend have a spare pedal you could swap out to see if a different pedal sorts the problem?

Just replaced my first bottom bracket, only £20 for an ultegra (road bike) and pretty straight forward with the right tool so could be worth replacing that anyway if it is pretty old. 

2
 EddInaBox 09 Jun 2020
In reply to Bobling:

If you are worried then you could get a second quick link and replace the link where you made the split with that (if you can find it again).

 balmybaldwin 09 Jun 2020
In reply to Bobling:

Chain should be ok if it's moving freely, but yes it might be the place it goes. buy yourself a "quick link" and keep in your kit for when it does for a quick fix (and the bonus you now have a quick link for next time you need the chain off.

In terms of the pedal vs bb - simple test if you pedal with only one pedal do you get the same creak? (tie your foot to one pedal if you haven't got toe clips/clipless). try each pedal. If it's a pedal issue it will be one, not both. If both pedals still make the creak when pedalled individually, chances are it's the bb. If its only one pedal that's creaking, it'll either be dirt/grit etc or bearings gone. - probably cheaper to get  new set of pedals

 EddInaBox 09 Jun 2020
In reply to im off:

> The quick links or what ever they're called i need the tool to unlink them.

I use Sram and can usually do those with my fingers, the trick is to squeeze the side plates together as you slide them lengthways but that might only work with the eight and nine speed chains.

 Dave Cundy 09 Jun 2020
In reply to Bobling:

Assuming that your chain has not done more than a few thousand miles, I'd remove the wide link adjoining the gap where you've popped the link.  Then replace it with a new quicklink.

I find that opening them is a bugger.   i use long nosed pliers to squeeze the diagonally opposite corners together.

I change my chain after 3000 miles (which gives 2% elongation) to prevent it wearing the chainrings and/or cassette.  If you've had your chain for years, may be now's the time for a new one.

 EddInaBox 09 Jun 2020
In reply to balmybaldwin:

> Chain should be ok if it's moving freely, but yes it might be the place it goes. buy yourself a "quick link" and keep in your kit for when it does for a quick fix (and the bonus you now have a quick link for next time you need the chain off.

Worth pointing out you still need a chain tool to remove one link so you can put a (second) master link in.

 balmybaldwin 09 Jun 2020
In reply to EddInaBox:

> Worth pointing out you still need a chain tool to remove one link so you can put a (second) master link in.


True.

OP Bobling 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Bobling:

Thanks all, very helpful.  I do already have a spare master link so think I will just make sure I am packing that if I am out with this bike.

 Dax H 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Bobling:

If in doubt I would change the chain. A mate of mine snapped his whilst pushing hard up hill and the sudden lack of resistance caused him to fall forward and he went over the bars, well most of him did, his left testicle got caught on something and ended up being removed in hospital. 

 GrahamD 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Bobling:

You can often tell whether the bottom bracket needs fixing by seeing whether ther is any movement (even a hint) if you try to push your crank side to side (by hand, but quite firmly).

What sort of crank fixings are they, by the way ?

cb294 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Dax H:

I still have both my testicles, but out of the five or six times I snapped a chain by accelerating at least three times I whacked my balls against the upper tube or stem, once requiring medical attention.

The advent of slim 10x and 11x roadie chains did not help. I find Shimano chains particularly weak, and the pin you are supposed to snap off after inserting a complete pain. Proper quick links all the way! Also, I never snapped a chain again since switching to Wippermann Connex chains.

CB

 nniff 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Bobling:

Simple test for a knackered BB, if you've got the chain off: hold the seat post with one hand and give the cranks a good spin.  If the BB's knackered, you'll feel the bearings rumbling through the seat post.  Not as easy to feel with the chain in place.

If the bike's old, it would be a fair bet that the chain's worn, unless the bike's hardly been used.

Seat post is a primary source of mystery creaks

 pamph 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Dave Cundy:

I bought a special tool for fitting and undoing quick links from Chain Reaction, and it's worth it's weight in gold! I take the chains off my bikes fairly regularily for a deep clean (soak in parafin then regrease) so it has saved a lot of grief. It was about £10 if I remember correctly.

 charliesdad 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Dave Cundy:

A friend suggested this, but I’m not sure the numbers add up; Chains cost pretty much the same as a new cassette, and more than a front cog. Doesn’t it make more £sense to replace all 3 at the same time?

 Neil Williams 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Bobling:

Creaking when pedalling is very, very often the bottom bracket failing.

OP Bobling 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Neil Williams:

The bottom bracket or the cartridge in the bottom bracket?  As I understand it the bottom bracket is just the hole in the frame.   NB I just stuffed a simple chain removal so what do I know?  

Also for info - the bike is old (90s?) but has had I would think a few thousand miles put through it over the last year commuting 8 miles each way to work.  Chain has been recently replaced, as I think has the rear chain ring, not sure about the cartridge though.

Post edited at 09:57
 Hooo 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Bobling:

The cartridge bearing unit is called a bottom bracket. Don't ask why, cycling is full of weird terms that don't seem to make sense.

 ChrisJD 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Bobling:

If everything else is old and creaking on the MTB, then the chain will probably be past its due by date (as will other parts of the chain-set).  Borrow/buy a chain gauge or ask a nice LBS to check it.

But it will depend on how bothered you are, many causal and far too many not-causal MTBers 'maintenance' consists of riding components to failure, which of course is not maintenance.

I won't tell you how many chains I get thru, some UKCers might faint.

 Dark-Cloud 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Bobling:

I would replace it, or put another quick link in it.

As a word or warning my good bike started making a noise 10 miles into a 40 mile ride, got home and found this, i suspect it's not been riveted correctly by the manufacturer or bike shop as it didn't have the KMC quick link in it


 Frank4short 10 Jun 2020
In reply to charliesdad:

> A friend suggested this, but I’m not sure the numbers add up; Chains cost pretty much the same as a new cassette, and more than a front cog. Doesn’t it make more £sense to replace all 3 at the same time?

This is pretty subjective. A high end chain will probably be less than a tenth of the combined cost of the equivalent cassette and chainrings (thinking XT, XTR, ultegra, dura ace). 

I know of a few racery type people who will rotate chains to keep the wear at roughly equal levels e.g. have 3 chains which you change every month. So by the fourth month you're back to the original chain. This way the rate of wear on the chains is comparable to the rate of wear on the chainrings and cassette as they wear slower than the chains. It's more trouble and cost in the short term but the thinking is you never get to a point where your chain is doing more damage to the more expensive parts due to it's own wear and you're also not putting a brand new chain on a fairly worn drivetrain either leading to mismatching performance and increased wear in the chain. So in theory (never actually tried it myself) you're prolonging and overall life and performance of the drivetrain thus saving money in the long run.

 Dark-Cloud 10 Jun 2020
In reply to charliesdad:

Not sure what sort of chains you are looking at !

Shimano Ultegra Cassette £44

Shimano Ultegra Chain £25

 Jon Greengrass 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Bobling:

singlespeed - 7 speed chains riveting them back together with a standard pin is fine.

8 speed and above, you are going to have a weak link and a potential faceplant when the chain splits when you stand up and put some power down. I always use a quicklink  for SRAM and KMC  chains or the special  joining pins for Shimano.

In my experience creaking usually comes from dirt in the threads, but unless you have removed and refitted your pedals, cranks, chainrings or bottom bracket recently I'd rule that out.  I had a creak recently from a loose chainring bolt, so it is worth checking that everything is tightened up properly.

If none of the above work I just keep riding with the creaks, they either go away on their own or the bit that is broken falls off.

 nniff 10 Jun 2020
In reply to charliesdad:

> A friend suggested this, but I’m not sure the numbers add up; Chains cost pretty much the same as a new cassette, and more than a front cog. Doesn’t it make more £sense to replace all 3 at the same time?

Probably not, but that depends on what grade bits you've got.  A Dura-ace chain is about £40, but a Dura-ace cassette is £160.  My race cassette is Dura-ace, but day-to day is Ultegra (£60) or 105 (£40).  The usual is one chain to two or three cassettes and a big ring when necessary.  No idea about mountain bike pricing.  Going out for a long ride but getting caught in a torrential downpour when you've only got dry lube on the chain is a good way to write off a chain in one ride, even with a roadside stop for some engine oil at a garage.  You know you're in trouble when you can hear the chain creaking and grinding and visibly rusting

 EddInaBox 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Bobling:

> The bottom bracket or the cartridge in the bottom bracket?  As I understand it the bottom bracket is just the hole in the frame.  

The 'hole in the frame' is the bottom bracket shell.

Well actually the bit of frame that the bottom bracket fits into is the shell, the hole in the frame is just air... at least until you put a bottom bracket into it.  Me, a pedant, what makes you think that?

1
 EddInaBox 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Jon Greengrass:

> singlespeed - 7 speed chains riveting them back together with a standard pin is fine.

> 8 speed and above, you are going to have a weak link...

Six, Seven and Eight speed chains are the same, the internal width is 3/32" and the external width is 7.1 mm for Shimano IG and Sram or 7.3 mm for Shimano HG.  It was only with nine speed chains that they started reducing the width of the side plates.

 im off 10 Jun 2020
In reply to EddInaBox:

Oh. Will try this. Ta.

 Jon Greengrass 10 Jun 2020
In reply to EddInaBox:

> Six, Seven and Eight speed chains are the same.

They are not.

It is true that they have the same roller width, but the external width was reduced from 7.8mm for 6 speed, 7.3mm for 7 speed to  7.1 mm for 8 speed. 

 EddInaBox 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Jon Greengrass:

I concede the point about six speed chains, but Shimano UG first went 8 speed in 1988 with 7.3mm, then HG came along in about 1989 I think which was also 7.3mm, IG was 1995 and that was 7.1mm.

Rigid Raider 10 Jun 2020
In reply to Bobling:

Is your bottom bracket a BB30?  If it is, say so and I'll tell you how to stop it creaking. I can't be bothered to type it all out if it's not definitely BB30 though!

In reply to Bobling:

Fun and games finding the cause of a creak, I'd remove the pedals off the bike and give the spindles a good spin and wiggle. If there stiff or with excess play then there's your cuplrite. Same goes the BB, if you cag get the cranks off then all the better to check it out. You may need some specific tools for this possibly (crank removal tool, shimano pedal tool etc.)

As for the chain, if the pin has been replaced ok you should be fine. If your not too sure then a new chain shouldn't be too costly for a bike of that age, i.e. 8/9 speed chain.

OP Bobling 12 Jun 2020
In reply to Bobling:

Reporting back.  Have replaced the suspect link, taken off my pedals and investigated and degreased and cleaned the chain rings and derailleurs  (That bit's NOT supposed to be shiny Bobling! Sorry Corporal! Haha).  There was a rumble in the seat post with the pedals on, but not when they were off, so I am hoping that might be it.  There is some very slight lateral movement in the bottom bracket though so jury still out.  Now to put it back together.

This is what Friday nights are all about eh?  I'm not afraid of middle age.

Post edited at 23:13
 balmybaldwin 22 Jun 2020
In reply to Dax H:

Poor bloke, but that made me laugh


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