Entry level mountain bike?

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 climber34neil 13 Jul 2022

Been looking into getting a mountain bike, (have road bike ad well) don't want to spend too much cash, looking at specialised rockhopper elite, any thoughts or opinions welcome. Looking for a bike that will do a bit of everything,  trail, xc, etc

Thanks

 crayefish 14 Jul 2022
In reply to climber34neil:

Any big brand mtb at that price should be plenty fine for starting out.  Before covid one could buy last season's carbon bikes for a similar price (I did) but now one has to be happy just to find a bike.

Personally I'd either save a bit of money and buy something cheaper, then put the cash to a nicer bike (carbon frame, good fork) and transferable components later if you like the sport, or chuck a bit more and get a higher spec alloy frame bike (SLX or XT level) that you won't outgrow too quickly.  But there are many ways to do it and comes down to personal preference really.

Try and get Deore level parts... any lower and you'll find you'll want to upgrade very soon.  Deore is like one below 105 equivalent.  Definitely go for 1x drivetrain (think it has this) and buy new tyres for sure... tyres are quite cheap and the most important part.  Will transform the ride.  After tyres, I'd invest in clipless and a good saddle (probably already on your list as a roadie), as these you can transfer to a future bike.

Enjoy... and welcome to the dark side 😁

1
 ChrisJD 14 Jul 2022
In reply to climber34neil:

Its got old school geometry: short reach and steep head angle 68.5!

Looks like you are are Peak based; if you want fun riding local, then look at another bike.

Have a look at this: https://www.mbr.co.uk/reviews/buyers-guide/best-hardtail-mountain-bike

OP climber34neil 14 Jul 2022
In reply to crayefish:

Thank you!

OP climber34neil 14 Jul 2022
In reply to ChrisJD:

Thank you,yes peak would be where it would get most use

 ChrisJD 14 Jul 2022
In reply to climber34neil:

How tall are you / what ball park size frame you after?

 TobyA 14 Jul 2022
In reply to climber34neil:

Hi Neil. I should be getting my new mountain bike delivered next week and am quite excited about it. When I bought my current MTB 6 years, I was particularly interested in its ability to go bikepacking (which I have done with it and it is great for), but I've found because it has no suspension, on quite a lot of 'proper' Peak mountain biking it can be a bit too bumpy - even though it has "plus" tyres, so 3 inch width front, 2.8 inch at the back, which do work to some degree to absorb the bumps. So I've ended up doing more shorter - done in a day-type rides - on my current bike, and wishing it was a bit more aggressive. Although having chased ChrisJD around the Eastern Moors loop when Chris was on his "gravel bike", I fully admit that with skill and daring some people clearly can ride hard on a fully rigid MTB!

That's why I'm getting a Sonder (Alpkit) Transmitter. The model I'm getting has 150 mm of suspension, pretty slack geometry and a dropper seatpost. I bought a dropper and put it on my old bike (I have subsequently broken it, another story) and it was amazing (just like everyone says). It utterly transforms the feel of the bike on difficult and technical terrain. At first it almost feels ridiculous, like you're on a kids BMX, but on tricky descents you just feel so much safer have the saddle down, you can ride the line more aggressively and probably better as a result. "Slack geometry" adds to this - my understanding is that it essentially means your front wheel is further forward due to the angle of the forks. When your wheel goes down a rock or some sort of drop, on older style MTBs you have this feeling that you are going over the bars no matter how much you try to push your weight back. With slacker geometry that feeling is lessened (although of course it is still possible to go OTB if you try hard enough! ).

People who mountain bike a lot seem to forget that paying 1.5 grand for a bike isn't "cheap" for the vast majority of people!   So I wouldn't say "you've got to pay X amount for a good bike" but accept it's all compromises. I've ridden Jacob's Ladder off Kinder on my old bike and it was superb fun (particularly with the dropper!). From memory I got off and lifted the bike down one drop-off that I figured I couldn't ride, besides that I rode it all with no dabs. That bike was I think 700 quid (and 75 for the dropper seat post), and I reckon I've had my money's worth out of it. 

But if you want to ride rocky and techy stuff, particularly in the Peak, I'd look for a bike with 'modern' (i.e. slack) geometry and a dropper post. After all you've got a road bike when you want to go and grind out 100 kms in four hours. I suppose that in confusing MTB-speak is more a "Trail bike" than an "XC bike". 

OP climber34neil 14 Jul 2022
In reply to ChrisJD:

I'm 5' 7" , I've tried a few for size, all medium,  I've tried a whyte and found the compact frame a better fit

OP climber34neil 14 Jul 2022
In reply to TobyA:

Hi Toby, 

Thanks for that, my searching has continued today, so the basic decision is that its a trail bike I'm after as you suggest rather than xc. My current contenders are whyte 801 and trek roscoe,  any experience of those of course is welcome . I've not looked at sondor but I'll pop outand have a look at that tomorrow. 

On another note, isn't it about time you were back in the cave of dreams!?

 Graeme G 14 Jul 2022
In reply to climber34neil:

I have a Trek 8500, now discontinued. The Roscoe is considered a good replacement. I can’t comment on the Roscoe, but I can say I absolutely love my 8500. It’s now 15+ years old and brings me immense pleasure every time I ride it.

https://www.bikes.org.uk/trek-8500-mountain-bike-review/

OP climber34neil 14 Jul 2022
In reply to Graeme G:

Thanks, I am leaning more towards that I  think 

In reply to climber34neil:

For that sort of money I'd definitely be on Marketplace picking up a 2nd hand full sus. Never understood the point of hardtails, the rear end impacts get old real fast. 

9
 Graeme G 14 Jul 2022
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

>  Never understood the point of hardtails, the rear end impacts get old real fast. 

Ease of uphill due to reduced weight and not losing propulsion due to suspension ‘stretch’ (don’t know the technical term) stand out for me. 

Depends what you ride. I’ve never ridden anything where I’d want full sus. One of my mates spent £2,500 on a full sus for an alpine MTB holiday. Said it was the biggest waste of money. It wasn’t the lack of suspension that was holding back his rides, it was his ability. 

1
 Mini Mansell 14 Jul 2022
In reply to climber34neil:

If your Peak based.

Look on FB for the group called Coggers.

5600 MTB folk in the south Yorkshire area

Mini

In reply to Graeme G:

But if those things are your criteria then I'd either get a rigid frame and ride easy trails, or just spend the money on suspension that locks out. 

It's not about big jumps, it's about riding over tree roots or rock gardens without that "bang". If you have a front fork then obviously you think you need suspension, to have it only at the front is like just putting front shocks on a car. 

1
 Graeme G 14 Jul 2022
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Let’s just disagree. There’s plenty of reviews arguing the case for both which the OP can easily find with Google.

But yes, 2nd hand should def be a consideration. Hard tail or full sus. 

Post edited at 22:58
OP climber34neil 14 Jul 2022
In reply to Graeme G:

I appreciate all the comments and will certainly consider looking at used options as well

 mondite 15 Jul 2022
In reply to Graeme G:

> Ease of uphill due to reduced weight and not losing propulsion due to suspension ‘stretch’ (don’t know the technical term) stand out for me. 

Possibly in the past but now with modern full sus (assuming xc/trail bikes and not downhill monsters) they climb just as well if not better. My full sus easily matches my hardtail on any remotely rough climb.

For OP I have a whyte 905 which isnt massively dissimilar from the 801 in geometry etc. I do love it as hardtail bike and would happily pick up another. I wouldnt say they are compact though but guess it depends on the framesize you choose.

For the trek looks like depending on the model/size they are 29in wheels so would definitely worth a trial ride since opinions vary for height vs size.

 TobyA 15 Jul 2022
In reply to Mini Mansell:

I didn't know you were a UKC lurker Mini!

Coggers is great, as is the Peak District MTB group on FB. 

 ChrisJD 15 Jul 2022
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I think you're spouting nonsense; 

I own all three types of off-road bike (rigid, long travel HT and all out enduro): love riding them all and each brings their own flavour and enjoyment to the trails.

 ChrisJD 15 Jul 2022
In reply to climber34neil:

at 5'7", a good starting point would be a bike with a 'Reach' in the range of 425 to 435 mm (you can check the Reach in the bike Geometry page for each model).

Gets important if buying older bike 2nd hand as older bikes were much shorter; but up-sizing on older bikes can have its pitfalls with stand over height and seat post height.

This website is very useful if buying 2nd hand to work out the geometry of different sizes by year:

e.g., the Sonder Transmitter:

2016: Reach for Medium = 426 mm

2021: Reach for Medium = 443 mm

https://geometrygeeks.bike/bike/sonder-transmitter-2016/

https://geometrygeeks.bike/bike/sonder-transmitter-2021/

In reply to ChrisJD:

I'm not saying you can't enjoy a hardtail, I'm saying if I just had the budget for one bike I'd get a full sus as a hardtail can be pretty unpleasant on rooty trails as your body has to be the rear suspension. 

But if you enjoy the feeling of the frame jarring your spine repeatedly that's fine. There is a whole sport for that now, I think it's called gravel biking

1
OP climber34neil 15 Jul 2022
In reply to ChrisJD:

Thanks appreciate all the info 

 ChrisJD 15 Jul 2022
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

And if you go back to the OP, you'll see there is not the budget there for full-sus.

And there's plenty-of-fun to be had on modern hardtails and on modern gravel bikes, its just a different type of fun to a full-sus.

And its not you spine that gets jarred; its thighs and arms/shoulders that take it.

Personally I love the challenge that my HT and flat barred rigid gravel bikes bring. It means I can enjoy our local trails in three different ways (inc my Full Sus); great way to mix it up.

Post edited at 12:17
 Mini Mansell 15 Jul 2022
In reply to TobyA:

new member.

in fact that post was my first!

OP climber34neil 15 Jul 2022
In reply to TobyA:

 Bike ordered!! 

 Graeme G 15 Jul 2022
In reply to climber34neil:

And????? 

OP climber34neil 15 Jul 2022
In reply to Graeme G:

I went for the roscoe 

 Graeme G 15 Jul 2022
In reply to climber34neil:

Enjoy 😊 

OP climber34neil 15 Jul 2022
In reply to Graeme G:

In purple to match the inevitable bruises !

 ChrisJD 15 Jul 2022
In reply to climber34neil:

Welcome to the MTB world

OP climber34neil 15 Jul 2022
In reply to ChrisJD:

Thank you!

 ChrisJD 15 Jul 2022
In reply to climber34neil:

M, M/L or L (17.5, 18.5 or 19.5).

OP climber34neil 15 Jul 2022
In reply to ChrisJD:

Medium was the best fit for me

 TobyA 15 Jul 2022
In reply to climber34neil:

Neil, you're Chesterfield-ish based aren't you? If you are, there is lots of decent riding just from the west side of town, Linacre in particular.

I reckon getting a copy of https://www.adventurebooks.com/products/white_peak_mountain_biking is really worth it. You can (could?) get gpx files for all those rides from Vertebrate for free, but the book is well worth it for some inspiration. I see you can get them second hand via Amazon for not much if you've blown all your cash on the bike! But I have had some great days going through those routes.

OP climber34neil 15 Jul 2022
In reply to TobyA:

Hi Toby, 

I am yes, also I bought that book and I think the dark peak volume as well when they were first published,  its just taken a little while in getting round to getting the bike to go with it !

Thanks for the info though,  I'd welcome a ride out somewhere for some tips and hints if you fancy dragging a punter about !!!

 TobyA 15 Jul 2022
In reply to ChrisJD:

A P.S. to Chris and all the other MTB experts reading this:

As I said - I should be getting my new bike next week, and will have suspension for the first time since I flogged my mid noughties Kona Blast before leaving Finland 8 years ago.

Should I buy myself a shock pump? The fork I'm getting is a Rockshox Recon Silver RL fork - and air sprung suspension is a bit of mystery to me! Am I likely to want to fiddle with it much when I first get the bike? I read all about sag and damping and so on, and nod sagely while not really knowing what it all means. The fork on my old Kona was elastomer if I remember right, so there wasn't much fiddling you could do!

I'll have to do the tubeless set up as well, although I've always managed that DIY before. Hoping the wheels come fully tubeless ready with decent rim tape already there.  

 TobyA 15 Jul 2022
In reply to climber34neil:

> Thanks for the info though,  I'd welcome a ride out somewhere for some tips and hints if you fancy dragging a punter about !!!

Lets do it! I've still not ridden the Beast, off Winhill, but as I'll have both a dropper and suspension, I don't think I have any excuses not to give it go now!  

I bet we could persuade ChrisJD to show us round his local spots around Hathersage as well. I think he knows all the good, cheeky stuff that doesn't upset anyone too much as well. I've got one week of teaching left, but then we're off on family holiday for the next three weeks - but once I get back mid August, I'll be really keen to get out. 

OP climber34neil 15 Jul 2022
In reply to TobyA:

Perfect ! Looking forward to it 

 ChrisJD 15 Jul 2022
In reply to TobyA:

I'm still in post-op physio rehab from a snapped achilles back at start of May (playing tennis; don't even like tennis!. The irony is not lost on me); rehab is going really well, but I'm a good while off trashing down anything vaguely interesting (a bit of flat road is all I've tried so far, but that was so good to be back on two wheels). Happy to make you both a coffee and talk bikes and trail suggestions.

Post edited at 20:51
 ChrisJD 15 Jul 2022
In reply to TobyA:

You collecting from Hsag? The team in there should be able to get you to a good base setting. Pop round as well if you want and we can have a fork set up coffee.

 Hat Dude 15 Jul 2022
In reply to climber34neil:

I managed to pick up a second hand Whyte 801 for what I think was a very reasonable price, earlier this year

I'm 5'10" & have a large frame which seems ideal, my only beef is the bar width which seems to need approx 1" lopped off each side but I'm a newb to modern MTBs

I love the bike so far, good spec & build quality. It's a bike which exceeds my MTB ability

my 

OP climber34neil 15 Jul 2022
In reply to ChrisJD:

Sounds great !

OP climber34neil 15 Jul 2022
In reply to Hat Dude:

I had a look at those, but found the compact frame suited me better , I e ordered a trek , I liked the fit and feel of it and seemed to have good spec for the money, I'm sure the bike will be far more capable than me for quite some time !

 TobyA 16 Jul 2022
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Those bikes are all in Scotland, not very handy for us in Derbyshire. 

 TobyA 16 Jul 2022
In reply to ChrisJD:

Bike is being delivered directly but may well take you up on riding it over to yours at some time convenient to you so you can show me how to get the best out of the suspension. Thanks very much for the offer. 👍 I've just been out on my creaky old steed but still set a PB down Cartledge Lane. Such a good ride. Might get chance to try it on the new steed this week before off on hols next weekend.

In reply to TobyA:

Well I was just showing examples of what's out there, and didn't think to change my locale as I don't know the ops exact location, but if you insist:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/452796736678845/

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1753707618309384/?ref=facebook_st...

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/358089462944252/?ref=facebook_sto...

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1120691235182727/

All within a short drive of the peak.

2
 ChrisJD 17 Jul 2022
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Buying full sus bikes at that price point / age / condition is just too much of a gamble/risk if you haven't a clue about mountain bikes. Not recommended for 1st time riders with no friend/rider support. They will rarely have no issues to sort and wont have any warranty.

Having bought 2nd bikes it is also a lot of hassle and can be pretty stressful handing over big chunks of cash / transfer / paypal.  And it could also be stolen, and could in theory get siezed.

I would recommend these guys though; getting a great reputation for 2nd hand rebuilt bikes (they are all good riders to boot); but again, buying blind and you have to know about what bikes you want

https://www.facebook.com/sussedbicycles/

Post edited at 09:26
1
In reply to ChrisJD:

Fair points. I'd say learning to maintain your bike is generally a good thing, but I can see why people wouldn't want to. 

Different strokes I guess

 gethin_allen 17 Jul 2022
In reply to Hat Dude:

If the bars are too wide it's perfectly normal and very easy to chop them down a bit. Some modern bar sizes are just crazy, my girfriend's bike, a size small, arrived with 800 mm wide bars so we immediately chopped a few inches off them.

Do it a cm off each end at a time and you can work out what you like. 

 TobyA 17 Jul 2022
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I guess you can't really learn how to maintain it until you have had one, ridden it, broken it and fixed it a few times. I got my first mountain bike in the mid 90s - but I've never had a full suspension one, so if I was looking at secondhand ones I wouldn't know what to check on the back shock and linkage for example.

 ChrisJD 17 Jul 2022
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

As TobyA said, a new mountain biker might not know they are buying and blow their money on a minger ... and then spend time, effort and money sorting it. Not exactly getting a bargain.

It recently took me over 3 months of searching the 2nd hand market to find something that fitted the bill for someone. 

There is so much rubbish out there and a fair share of dodgy sellers and time waster sellers.

It's such a cop out to just list 4 random FS bikes off FB. The reality of buying second hand is so much trickier.


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