UKH

I went for a ride. Just an hour, but planned to include a nice steady effort up long hill (5km, 3%). I'm doing my steady effort, and after a while I overtake a guy, who is doing maybe 20km/h to my 25km/h. I give plenty of room and say hi. A few minutes later I hear some gear-clunking behind me. The overtaken cyclist has sped up on the flatter middle section and is drafting me. I ignore him and continue my effort to the top. At the top he turns off into the Goyt and that's that.

Is it okay to draft a stranger without any communication in normal circumstances?

Is it okay to do so during the present pandemic? How does he know I don't have covid? I've seen a paper showing (via simulations) that the safe distance for cycling is significantly more than 2m. Now when I overtake another cyclist I pull out about 20m before, and only pull in when I'm 20m ahead.

Even if the rules permit rides with other people, I choose to cycle alone to minimize risk. I suppose he's mainly putting himself at risk? Though I could suddenly brake or swerve, and we could crash and end up in a heap breathing all over each other...

I guess I could have slowed down to allow him to overtake, but I didn't. If I objected to being drafted, should I? Should I have said something?

My view: Given the present pandemic drafting a stranger is not appropriate. He takes a needless risk of catching covid from me. By drafting without even announcing his presence, he imposes an increased risk (of crashing, and subsequently potential covid transmission) on me. Even in normal circumstances I think it's a bit (I wish I could think of a more appropriate expression) dickheadish, especially if no communication is offered. Uphill, and at that speed the increase in effort to go at my pace must outweigh the savings offered by drafting. If the overtaken cyclist has something to prove (and in the past I've been that cyclist...), then overtake properly, get a gap, and maintain it. Otherwise, just accept that someone else is going up the hill a bit faster *today*.

Ultimately it's not a big deal, but I'm curious to know a) what do other people think of that behaviour? and b) what would other people would have done, if anything?

Jack

If you are latching on to a wheel its customary to shout out is it ok to get on your wheel?.... if you didn't know he was there your riding would be potentially different to if you knew he was...

As for covid related stuff I agree....its shocking at how many people seem to be ignoring distancing measures....

Personally, if I jump on a wheel, I let them know.  Doesn't happen often.  I rather think that cycling is a reasonable test of Covid - if you're struggling to breathe then you're unlikely to be out riding fast enough to worry about drafting.  If you're riding fast and steady enough to be drafted and to draft, then you should both know your business well enough not to bring each other down - if you don't, then learn fast.  On the other hand it's rude (and dangerous) not to announce your presence and even ruder not to say thanks for the tow if you didn't share the work.

Disregarding the virus aspect then no, you can't object to being drafted. The other cyclist is entitled to ride as he wishes. 

They were pretty inconsiderate though. I will quite often use an overtaking cyclist as an excuse to push harder to see how long I can maintain it but i make sure to leave a 20-30 metre gap

Outside of Covid rules I actually think it’s fine.  I know some people think it’s rude but that’s normally pride rather than genuine safety concerns.  Like you say, get a gap and maintain it.  You weren’t able to do that.    
 
If you catch up to someone who’s going a tiny bit slower than you, particularly if they’ve overtaken you earlier, it’s difficult to overtake again without being seen to be throwing down some sad mamil gauntlet, so tucking in til the next junction is often the best thing.  You might have been in his way as much as pulling him along.

Plenty of people will also object to the cheery hello from an overtaker.  If someone overtakes me on a hill I like them to be putting in enough effort that they can’t speak!

unfortunately asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic spread is high with Covid. The majority of community transmission is via a few super spreaders, who often appear well, like Typhoid Mary.

Definitely should be a crime, typically they will sit there without saying anything, won't come through and take a turn and then overtake without saying hello when you go for a drink from your bottle. 

In terms if comparables to other sports can you think of one where similar things happen or would be ok? 

And in light of covid if you don't know you are being drafted by some snake you could shoot a snot rocket and cover the rider behind.

Three warning approach: glance at the cyclist, cough and snot rocket. 

On a more serious note... I wouldn't say it's fine, but people (including myself) have been relaxing a bit. Since pubs are open, it doesn't feel like you could argue that two cyclists drafting each other are introducing that great of a risk. 

Of course you can object, but if the drafter likes snot rockets that's their choice. 

A 20-30 metre gap isn't drafting. 

I disagree. I know it's very common and (here in Spain at least) commonly accepted. , but I think it's bad form and dangerous. If I cycle alone I want to be able to ride however I like. If I suddenly want to slow down to enjoy the view then I don't want anyone crashing into me. Everyone who participates in traffic has the obligation to keep enough distance to safely stop if the one ahead does something unforeseen. For some reason, cyclists think that does not apply to them. 

I also don't want to be responsible for communicating risks and obstacles to anyone riding too close to see them, and this type of communication is essential when drafting. 

Anyone who wants to draft should go for a ride in a group set up for this purpose. 

Doesn’t bother me. I don’t do it to other people but I’m not bothered if people do it to me. I’d rather that than they overtake me with their ego writing a cheque their body can’t cash, and have them blowing in front of me. It’s a stupid thing to do at the moment though with coronavirus. 

Following someone else's trail they are breaking up to the start of  a winter climb? I don't think people object to that unless they then nip in front at the last moment to get on the route first.

Obliged by rule 3 to intervene.

https://www.velominati.com/

The answer to your question can be found at rule 19.

How long were his socks?

It’s just good manners to ask if it’s ok to ride immediately behind you. Personally I’ve never been able to keep up when someone passes me! My time will come. 

Is this the road from Buxton to Whalley Bridge? I must get over there again soon. Its been ages

It's happened to me a few times over the years through differing levels of fitness. Here's what I do:

When you realise there's someone on your wheel, speed up slighty. If they're still there after a few minutes this might be a problem so try increasing your speed once more. If they're still there after your second dig, put your hand up, pull in and pretend to answer your phone.
Immidiately get back on your bike and try to catch them up. From here you have a few options.

1. If you can't catch them, they're better than you, let it go, that's life.

2. If you do catch them, sit on their wheel and see what they do. Maybe pretend to breathe really heavy, blow your snot out occasionally. Move up and down the gears even when you don't need to.

3. If you do catch them, drop a gear, pass them and ride off into the distance. Tell all your mates about it.

4. Ride back up to them, ride alongside, say hi!

Cheers,

E

In my opinion it’s fine. The thing with cycling is that you don’t know how far anyone has been or has got to go.

The rider may have been needing the tow?

Surely this is just one of those things that happens on the road? I've never known anything like the cycling community for imagining all sorts of unwritten rules and codes! More than likely most cyclists are neither aware of or interested in such arcane matters. 

I like the last bit of rule 19. A friend and I were out riding once and another guy decided to join us, he never shut up!!

Yeah, it’s a bit bizarre.

Is it more apparent if you’re in Lycra?

I regularly catch roadies on my 45 minute loop coming up a 1.5 mile 20/c hill. Some are always going to be caught even on my cyclocross, but others have probably been a lot further.

Doesn't bother me.  Covid risk seems minuscule to me. You can just about draft at 2 metres.

If I'm caught I wait to see if they come through. If they do, I've got a buddy for a while. If they don't, it's incentive to pick up my pace.

If I'm catching, I either go straight past with an "ey up" greeting if they are much slower. Or, if we're more evenly matched, I'll get my breath back for a mile or two and then do a turn. 

Each to their own.

Back in my day draftIng was just a normal part of the game and everyone knew the score.

There was no need for introductions, you probably knew who they were anyway. If you caught someone it was expected they’d try to draft you. Depending on how charitable you were feeling, you’d either let them sit on or try to give them a hard time. It was then their choice if they wanted to put the effort in to hang on or let you go.

I guess times change. Cycling is much bigger now and not everyone has had the club system education and hence don’t understand why some old guy is sitting six inches from their back wheel.

In this situation I just speed up (slowly) till they break.

If someone gets on my wheel on a ride I act like we’re riding together and point stuff out, give warnings and hopefully get chatting and have an enjoyable conversation.

Cheers

Toby

I'm not too sure about the main question, but I suspect the paper you saw is the pre-print that turned out to be bollocks and is now used as example of what happens when let some engineers or maths geeks have a go virology in their spare time!

I don't draft random people, if they are going slow enough for me to have caught them I just pass them as soon as possible.

My wife who's a keen cyclist sometimes gives me stories of blokes who she'll pass on a climb only to have them sprint back past her again shortly afterwards. Makes it all the more funny as they usually then cooked and she just reels them in again and passes with a friendly wave only this time they have nothing left in the tank and soon know their place.

Interesting mix of responses. Thanks all.

Well said. Spot on I think. And this argument is without even taking into account the additional risks of covid.

If you draft a stranger, you first ask, and then take the lead after a short rotation. I have people ask me whether they could draft even though they said right away they were to knackered to lead, which is also fine.

Parasites who try to glue themselves to my rear wheel without taking their turn in the wind are free game. I try to get rid of them by cutting across potholes....

CB

I can't imagine anyone wanting to sit behind my arse up a hill !

Maybe they thought they were being companiable?

That might not necessarily mean there is much difference in ability between you. A rider may have gone all out to catch someone ahead who is dawdling a bit. The overtaken rider is then shaken out of their reverie and catches up.  They might then feel that it is childishly competitive to try and overtake immediately, so the op's drafting scenario happens.   

I'm not sure you are responsible, if someone's just tagged on randomly. I suppose in general terms it's good form, but I don't have a group-ride background and tend to think that if someone wants to follow me closely that's their business. Good for them if they can keep pace or overtake, but otherwise there's no obligation on me to assist. 

I am touched when people who have passed me then start pointing out potholes, but I don't expect them to 

And there in lies your problem. You need to ride faster. 

On a 3% hill I'd be around 30kph taking it steady. Speed up and no one will catch you. 😉 👍 

I'm not from a club/group ride background so this is the first time I've seen the etiquette down in black and white.

What happens to me sometimes is I get overtaken, don't mind at all, but then the overtaker settles into a pace similar to mine. Does that mean they want me there, and at some point I should go in front? Would they say something if this was the case?

Quite apart from COVID, you should NOT draft a stranger, unless you have let them know you are there and asked if it's ok.

Otherwise, it is tailgating and dangerous - would you drive behind someone that close in your car? You don't know where the rider in front is going, you can't see the traffic, potholes or any other dangers ahead, so why would you do it?

A few years ago, I had a complete stranger crash into my back wheel, fall off and nearly get himself run over by a car. You'd think he'd've taken the point when I'd dropped him 3 times before that. Fortunately, he didn't bring us both down. And then had the cheek to accuse me of not having any experience of group riding.

Someone else that tried it when I was enjoying an otherwise nice solo ride got really arsey when I politely asked them to stop it!

I was educated about group riding mainly through a club and I do find it irritating when people latch on to my back wheel without saying anything. If they at least come alongside for a moment to say hi and ask if I mind then I'm basically never going to say no, but I consider it potentially dangerous to follow someone closely who doesn't know you are there. I could have to swerve around a pothole or stop suddenly or whatever other thing that I would do differently if I knew someone was right behind my wheel, and I don't want them going up the back of me.

If you dropped him three times then you didn’t really drop him.  From his point of view he might think every time he caught up to you, with the intention of overtaking you tried to burn him off, giving him no option than to sit on your wheel (or go a different way).

Pedant Ok, by "dropped", I meant "sped up enough to open a bit of a gap and make the point I didn't want him sat right on my wheel"!

I was on my clapped-out commuter hack at the time and if he'd wanted to, he could have got past - I was in no hurry.

Maybe this is true for rides out in the country, I always try and overtake rather than drafting behind a stranger but I don't mind if they then sit on my wheel.

I'm reminded of an incident on my commute home though, moving fast in a cycle lane past stationary traffic. I feel fairly happy doing this knowing I can brake hard if someone opens a car door or starts to cross the road, but with a stranger sitting right behind me for several km like it's a club ride made me feel pretty unsafe and a bit angry. In the end I pulled into a side road and let him pass, having first slowed down to see if he'd overtake, which he didn't.

I thought if someone came past you, you were supposed to then sit on their wheel till you see the next village sign. You then sprint with all you’ve got,  raising both arms in the air as you coast past the sign.

Do you have a link for that?  I've seen the "slipstream" risk cited a number of times in complaints about supposedly selfish cyclists and runners.  It would be useful to be able to demonstrate to such complainants that it has been debunked.

Presumably the fluid dynamics aspect is sound, it's just whether that translates to viable virus transference that's open to question

I've heard it referenced as an example of non-experts "having a go" and getting it wrong on both BBC and American podcasts now, but I apologise I can't remember which. I do remember back in late March or April when the paper was first released and got lot of coverage, it wasn't long before scientists in the relevant fields started pointing out problems with it. I'm sure Google would reveal some of those criticisms! 

and like Dominic Cummings

Typhoid Mary was a cook I think, so ample chances for infection with food and water based bugs. Whereas Dominic Cummings... come to think of it, a far better excuse than “testing my eyesight” would be “It’s perfectly safe. I’m Dominic Cummings. People try desperately   to stay more than two metres away from me even when there is no pandemic”.

Eh, not in my book and many others it isn’t, it’s just not acceptable jumping on to a wheel you don’t know or haven’t asked to be on, especially if you don’t know they are there, also I don’t like people I don’t know on my wheel as I don’t know how proficient they are at following a wheel correctly,  I would have politely told him to f**k off or dropped the bomb on him after assessing the probability of being able to drop him in the first place of course....